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  • #16,841
  • Jun 20, 2023 4:55pm Jun 20, 2023 4:55pm
Quoting Nehemah
{quote} Actually I don't understand exactly the strategy of the guy. 3 lots in challenge and 3 lots reverse in funded. I probably missed something but I don't see any advantage, specially if the winning side is the challenge !
wouldnt be surprised if the guy is actually running accounts long short some where. If you are long short same company then you are basically buying insurance using the challenge. If you lose one you gain the other until eventually you hit big on the live and pay back all your losses.

all the noise about Vietnam Pakistan Thailand is that crap.
  • #16,842
  • Jun 20, 2023 5:06pm Jun 20, 2023 5:06pm
Quoting Nehemah
{quote} Actually I don't understand exactly the strategy of the guy. 3 lots in challenge and 3 lots reverse in funded. I probably missed something but I don't see any advantage, specially if the winning side is the challenge !
Exactly, if you do on funded vs funded. Million dollar question how the concerned prop firm got data.
Challenge vs Funded account should not be a problem. How it is reverse hedging some body please teach me.
  • #16,843
  • Jun 20, 2023 5:12pm Jun 20, 2023 5:12pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} wouldnt be surprised if the guy is actually running accounts long short some where. If you are long short same company then you are basically buying insurance using the challenge. If you lose one you gain the other until eventually you hit big on the live and pay back all your losses. all the noise about Vietnam Pakistan Thailand is that crap.
Yes. But if the guy just takes the first trade (without assurance) he will win more in the long run (less fees, spreads, etc) He tries to cut the variance and it's just an illusion actually. Same thing funded vs funded. Not difficult to proove it's more profitable to bet only one leg.
  • #16,844
  • Jun 20, 2023 5:14pm Jun 20, 2023 5:14pm
Quoting Nehemah
{quote} Yes. But if the guy just takes the first trade (without assurance) he will win more in the long run (less fees, spreads, etc) He try to cut the variance and it's just an illusion actually. Same thing funded vs funded. Not difficult to proove it's more profitable to bet only one leg.
probably. I tested to get long short properly you need 4K and to buy 100k accounts maybe he’s trying to do it the cheap way … question really is how did he pass the first time and did he lose another account at the same time
  • #16,845
  • Jun 20, 2023 5:42pm Jun 20, 2023 5:42pm
Free cake to anyone who can see the fraud in this screenshot.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 763147C9-9422-4ECE-989D-6EC929483ACD.png Size: 172 KB
  • #16,846
  • Jun 20, 2023 10:32pm Jun 20, 2023 10:32pm
10% drawdown is not reralistic and nor for a professional trader not gambling with tight stops?
10% target seems a tough ask mentally no?
Which firm has 30 % drawdown and 4% target?
Who as an investor would fund a trader to only get 10 and give the trader 90? Isn't that illogical?
So, are all funded accounts only demo? And if not how are they real money with such a low return to the provider?
Wouldn't 50/50 be more realistic logically? A win win?
  • #16,847
  • Jun 20, 2023 11:00pm Jun 20, 2023 11:00pm
Quoting FocusWinReal
10% drawdown is not reralistic and nor for a professional trader not gambling with tight stops? 10% target seems a tough ask mentally no? Which firm has 30 % drawdown and 4% target? Who as an investor would fund a trader to only get 10 and give the trader 90? Isn't that illogical? So, are all funded accounts only demo? And if not how are they real money with such a low return to the provider? Wouldn't 50/50 be more realistic logically? A win win?
True but you are not running hedge fund with billions of dollars. You are building capital almost all traders whether good or bad have risked or gambled intelligently to build capital. After building cushion or big capital you can make 10% yearly which is good. Most of prop firms have casino model or B booking traders. A booking will get killed. Also probablily of passing is not 50-50 it is more or less 20-25%
  • #16,848
  • Jun 20, 2023 11:34pm Jun 20, 2023 11:34pm
Quoting FocusWinReal
10% drawdown is not reralistic and nor for a professional trader not gambling with tight stops? 10% target seems a tough ask mentally no? Which firm has 30 % drawdown and 4% target? Who as an investor would fund a trader to only get 10 and give the trader 90? Isn't that illogical? So, are all funded accounts only demo? And if not how are they real money with such a low return to the provider? Wouldn't 50/50 be more realistic logically? A win win?

Really good questions but been answered before.
To sum it all up in one answer in form of a question: As long as they pay, who care?
  • #16,849
  • Jun 21, 2023 1:50am Jun 21, 2023 1:50am
Quoting FocusWinReal
10% drawdown is not reralistic and nor for a professional trader not gambling with tight stops? 10% target seems a tough ask mentally no? Which firm has 30 % drawdown and 4% target? Who as an investor would fund a trader to only get 10 and give the trader 90? Isn't that illogical? So, are all funded accounts only demo? And if not how are they real money with such a low return to the provider? Wouldn't 50/50 be more realistic logically? A win win?

prop firms main earnings are from challenge fee, even on unlimited time challenges ppl breach dd caps. if u check firms data 4-5% trader get paid means more than 90% are failed also form those 5% only half or less stay for a year.
and I believe prop firm has their own team who take care of dd breached accounts to get BE.
  • #16,850
  • Jun 21, 2023 10:34am Jun 21, 2023 10:34am
TFF opened discord again. Looks like they need capital, first payout proofs spam on telegram groups which we see since weeks now this.
  • #16,851
  • Jun 21, 2023 10:37am Jun 21, 2023 10:37am
Quoting youngD
TFF opened discord again. Looks like they need capital, first payout proofs spam on telegram groups which we see since weeks now this.
They have all payouts listed in their website no other propfirm is transparent about all payouts (assuming they are not fake)
  • #16,852
  • Jun 21, 2023 10:43am Jun 21, 2023 10:43am
Quoting youngD
TFF opened discord again. Looks like they need capital, first payout proofs spam on telegram groups which we see since weeks now this.
And active again in twitter after a long time silenced (except when there was that case of corrected past trade).

And now also tried to come back to forex factory.

Probably they need to boost subscriptions. Likely new companies hurting them.
  • #16,853
  • Jun 21, 2023 11:13am Jun 21, 2023 11:13am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} And active again in twitter after a long time silenced (except when there was that case of corrected past trade). And now also tried to come back to forex factory. Probably they need to boost subscriptions. Likely new companies hurting them.
Agreed. They crawled out of their hidey hole is desperation to regain lost market share. They still have yet to respond to the posts on their thread. Not surprised at all TBH.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #16,854
  • Jun 21, 2023 11:21am Jun 21, 2023 11:21am
I have a feeling props are going to have specials and discounts for 4th of July. If you guys see good ones, please post them.
  • #16,855
  • Jun 21, 2023 11:26am Jun 21, 2023 11:26am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Agreed. They crawled out of their hidey hole is desperation to regain lost market share. They still have yet to respond to the posts on their thread. Not surprised at all TBH.
Yea these prop firms are not trusted can go busted even though they payout.
  • #16,856
  • Jun 21, 2023 11:31am Jun 21, 2023 11:31am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} And active again in twitter after a long time silenced (except when there was that case of corrected past trade). And now also tried to come back to forex factory. Probably they need to boost subscriptions. Likely new companies hurting them.
First time I am seeing TFF giving 10% discount. Even though with discount they are still most expensive after FTMO.
  • #16,857
  • Jun 21, 2023 11:47am Jun 21, 2023 11:47am
Quoting sampat
{quote} Yea these prop firms are not trusted can go busted even though they payout.
Yep, even paying out for a while is proof of nothing as we know with TPT, Funding Talent, First Class or BluFx.

It's more important to read the signals and how they behave.

Not saying that we should not mil them. I milked TPT and FT quite a lot but I could smell sh* there that could come out at any moment. Same for Funded Next or Blue.
  • #16,858
  • Jun 21, 2023 12:00pm Jun 21, 2023 12:00pm
So what are our prop firm thread identifiers for flailing failures?

obviously payout problems but what are some more intricate details to look at.

from my side, the louder they are the more desperate they are.
  • #16,859
  • Jun 21, 2023 12:13pm Jun 21, 2023 12:13pm
Quoting Takisd
So what are our prop firm thread identifiers for flailing failures? obviously payout problems but what are some more intricate details to look at. from my side, the louder they are the more desperate they are.
Payout problems are the obvious one.

Unwritten rules like the request for interviews in Funded Next or when TPT started not paying 3K in account A because account B was -4K or Finotive allowing to purchase challenges and then not granting funded based on past losses (that were already known) or TFF not rectifying their system mistakes or unclear rules like grid / martingale in BeSpoke.

Constant change of rules like Funding Talent or excuses that we don't like your trading style.

Another good thing is to see how their CEO or representatives in telegram groups behave. For Blue and Bespoke we see that are kids not prepared to run a business. And probably Matt (I had a different opinion until yesterday).

The thing is that some of the schemes may take a lot of time to blow up like TPT. How long were they in the market, always paying like a clock ? Same for Blufx, one of the older in the instant+subscription model.

Even TFT how long is the failure being expected here ? And they are still around...
  • #16,860
  • Jun 21, 2023 12:18pm Jun 21, 2023 12:18pm
To me one year is a long time in prop industry so what I look at is who do I expect to (still) be here in one year ?
I would say MFF and FTMO definitely and I believe E8 as well.
Then for the other ones it's not advisable to build a long term relation or to purchase a lot of accounts. It's hitting them the most we can, as fast as possible, in a way that keep us under the radar, knowing that at some point the Monopoly money may evaporate like in TPT or Funded Talent.

Of course each person will have his own list.
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