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why do people share profitable systems?

  • #101
  • Edited 9:56pm Jun 18, 2023 9:17pm | Edited 9:56pm
Quoting Zebi
i think the only way to be successful in trading with a system or not is be contrarian... if you trade like the books and websites and gurus tell then why do 90% of beginners lose money trading that way.... Forget everything you learned in books and trade opposite
That should be a foolish thing to do.

Stick to 1 to 3 (correlated) markets and focus only on that.

Many (fresh) traders try to trade (to) many markets in the beginning (like I did) and lose track.

Get "under the skin" of a market and try to " feel" what it wants to do. That takes a long time to understand.

Take/make 2 time frame charts for each market. One overall chart and one scalp chart.
The overall chart (120 M or 180M) tells you what the " mood" is of the market.
The scalp chart (5M) is used to take scalp trades in the direction/mood/trend of the overall chart.

Be carefull for traders who use the word Forecast in their posts/story.
Markets can not be " Forecasted". You can talk about probebilities. Thats what we are looking for.
Markets are like seawaves. Seawaves are made/affected by boats/wind/tides/eartquakes.
Most of them are not to forecast.

Use the proper MA line set/channel and learn how the PA reacts on your MA lines setting. Not the other way around.
Once you have the right setting you will see patterns/PA reaction on you MA lines

Daily VWAP/Weekly VWAP are very good indicators.
That is all you need. learn to "read" that and stick to that.

You could add Pivot Points indicators to your chart since most traders use that as a decision point.
I don't see the PP as an indicator. It just shows statical levels based on the previous day trading range.

Next step is to implant Market Profile which is also not an indicator.
MP shows the PA in a kind of building what tells you what the most traded area's are and where the weak spots are.
On you overall chart a Weekly MP/TPO and on your scalp chart a Daily MP/TPO.

Don't fall in the trap to get your charts burried under indicators (as I did in the beginning).
It will make your confusion only bigger and bigger.

I trade 12/13 year now and I am still learning every day. A never ending story.
It's better to be out wishing to be in... than to be in wishing to be out!
  • #102
  • Jun 18, 2023 9:36pm Jun 18, 2023 9:36pm
Quoting Dutchy Daxy
{quote} That should be a foolish thing to do. Stick to 1 to 3 (correlated) markets and focus only on that. Many (fresh) traders try to trade (to) many markets in the beginning (like I did) and lose track. Get "under the skin" of a market and try to " feel" what it wants to do. That takes a long time to understand. Take/make 2 time frame charts for each market. One overall chart and one scalp chart. The overall chart tells you what the " mood" is of the market. Use the proper MA line set/channel and learn how the PA reacts on your MA lines setting....
excellent post! thank you!
without patience how can you be a trader?
  • #103
  • Jun 18, 2023 10:20pm Jun 18, 2023 10:20pm
Quoting ForexPop
{quote} I firmly believe no one will share a profitable system/strategy for free.
What is a profitable "system" or strategy for one trader, doesn't mean automatically it will work out good for an other trader.

Each trader has to work its way up to find a way of trading what suits him and could make him/her profitable over (much screen) time

I don't believe in automated trading systems/stratgies. They can work some time profitable, but when markets conditions/behaviour changes over time they become useless.

So IMHO it remains human work with all kind of emotions involved.
That makes a so called profitable strategy/system work for one trader and fails for an other trader.
It's better to be out wishing to be in... than to be in wishing to be out!
  • #104
  • Jun 18, 2023 11:17pm Jun 18, 2023 11:17pm
Quoting ForexPop
{quote} True, but why would one share without any benefits to himself? And like you said, it might not even work for the other person, so this sharing could just turn out useless/non-beneficial for both parties. It could turn out to be a colossal waste of time....
So, instead of waisting time (and money) finding and trading someone elses sytem, develop your own trading style.

Charttime is the only solution.

You must have time to sit in front of your screen(s) many hours/days to learn. Trading is no job or hobby after your regular job.

I read a quote yesterday:
The farther you can look in the past
The farther you can look in the future.
Winston Churchill

In other words: when you look back in chart history, you learn to see where future trade options are.

You must have a sufficient funded account.

You must have patience like an angel.

You must be consistence in you trading.

You must have perseverance.

If you miss one of these skills, you have to work hard it to get it/learn it or find an other hobby.
It's better to be out wishing to be in... than to be in wishing to be out!
  • #105
  • Jun 18, 2023 11:54pm Jun 18, 2023 11:54pm
Quoting ForexPop
{quote} True, but why would one share without any benefits to himself? And like you said, it might not even work for the other person, so this sharing could just turn out useless/non-beneficial for both parties. It could turn out to be a colossal waste of time....
this is not as simple as that.

when there is a communication, you need at least 2 parties, one sending out the message, the other receiving it.
you can already see that there will be problems or obstacles here.
if one only see things from his own perspective and dogged about it, then there is no need to continue the communication as there can be more than one perspective.

there is the possibility that the one that sending out the message may not be knowledgeable enough or articulate enough to convey the message.
or he may be a very good trader but teaching is not his thing or he is bad in teaching.
and the one receiving the message may not have enough knowledge or experience in understanding it so one can imagine how things can go wrong here.
further to that, using English as a mode of communication, may mean one thing in one region and another thing in other regions as it can be a cultural thing.

it is always beneficial to the one that is sharing (depending how you look at it), whether it is for ego boosting or whether he is being in the state of happiness while doing so, or concerning some other material things.
i choose to look at the positives side of things because in sharing or teaching something, one is trying (or being forced) to put in words his thoughts to be more concise.
one can discover new things from a different perspective that he never thought of before and thus learn from it in the process of sharing.
he is also reinforcing in his mind each time he is sharing, whether it is something new that he discovered or something that he had learned before but was vague or could not really grasp the subject matter at that point in time.

as to the recipients of the sharing, it is to each his own.
there are so many types.
if he is a swing trader and not realizing that it is meant for a scalper, whose 'fault' is it?
has the one learning ever consider whether he has enough knowledge, experience, state of emotions during trading in learning?
can he handle the new knowledge at his limited level of experience?
if one is good in the above mentioned, he can made his own decisions whether the new stuff will suit his personality or not.
if he is willing to learn, it will not be a problem as he will pick up very fast the new knowledge due to his experience.

further to that if 10 students were learning the same thing from the teacher, they all have different results, some fail, some succeed with different degrees.
we can already see that from our education in school.
all learning from the same lectures, but how different the students can turn out to be in society.
ITB - Seeing Orderliness amongst 'Randomness'
  • #106
  • Jun 19, 2023 1:35am Jun 19, 2023 1:35am
I want to see other people succeed also. Look at it from the perspective of making at least one life better for someone. What's the point of not sharing profitable system with others? Personally, people who don't share the good stuff with others are plain and simple the lowest form of life on Earth in my opinion.

Noone has to share anything with others, it's just a question of what kind of person you are. You would agree that helping someone in life is more important and more rewarding then being in minority of people who are successful.

Look, if people who are successful shared my point of view in life, this world would be a much different place today.
  • #107
  • Jun 19, 2023 2:00am Jun 19, 2023 2:00am
Quoting TheWraith
I want to see other people succeed also. Look at it from the perspective of making at least one life better for someone. What's the point of not sharing profitable system with others? Personally, people who don't share the good stuff with others are plain and simple the lowest form of life on Earth in my opinion. Noone has to share anything with others, it's just a question of what kind of person you are. You would agree that helping someone in life is more important and more rewarding then being in minority of people who are successful. Look, if...
Keep dreaming of your ideal world.
It's better to be out wishing to be in... than to be in wishing to be out!
  • #108
  • Jun 19, 2023 2:34am Jun 19, 2023 2:34am
Quoting Dutchy Daxy
{quote} Keep dreaming of your ideal world.
I don't dream of anything. Dreams have died in people like you and it spread too far already. Group of people I hang out with don't have to dream for it to become a reality. On a grand scale I agree with you, too many people are gone already spiritually. However, one is still able to find a group of people who still haven't fallen.
  • #109
  • Jun 19, 2023 2:37am Jun 19, 2023 2:37am
Quoting Coolleen
A profitable system/strategy no longer remain profitable when majority starts following... why do people share their system for free?
They don't.
All you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be.
  • #110
  • Jun 19, 2023 2:44am Jun 19, 2023 2:44am
I developed a system that I’m planning to share here, but because of the skeptics, I need to demo trade it for a couple of weeks first.
If you're not architecting, you're building someone else's plan.
  • #111
  • Jun 19, 2023 2:45am Jun 19, 2023 2:45am
Quoting TheWraith
I want to see other people succeed also. Look at it from the perspective of making at least one life better for someone. What's the point of not sharing profitable system with others? Personally, people who don't share the good stuff with others are plain and simple the lowest form of life on Earth in my opinion. Noone has to share anything with others, it's just a question of what kind of person you are. You would agree that helping someone in life is more important and more rewarding then being in minority of people who are successful. Look, if...
Who is "Noone"? Peter Noone? Maybe you mean 'No-one'.
All you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be.
  • #112
  • Jun 19, 2023 2:49am Jun 19, 2023 2:49am
Quoting Loftboy
{quote} Who is "Noone"? Peter Noone? Maybe you mean 'No-one'.
Thanks you for corection.
If that is all you got from that post...

Anyway, moving on from this forum...
  • #113
  • Jun 19, 2023 3:16am Jun 19, 2023 3:16am
No one shares any profitable systems. It's just not possible.
All they share are wet dreams of "I found the EDGE: Never-ever-seen RSI and MACD settings" that no one has ever used before.

Let me explain. For example I have profitable system. But the costs are: equipment, Internet, electricity, office rent, taxes, salaries and so on.
3 coders working on it, so only the salary costs are at least 30000$/mo. Do you really think some will share the "system"?
And of course the system is very complicated, so it is just not possible to share it even if some want.

Also, each employee is working on his own part of the system: someone is working on logic, someone is working with databases, someone is working with a backtester, someone is working with mm and so on. Only the owner has the full system code.

Remember: trading is a business, it's not drawing colorful lines on a chart.
Observer effect
  • #114
  • Jun 19, 2023 6:04am Jun 19, 2023 6:04am
Quoting ryuryu
No one shares any profitable systems. It's just not possible. All they share are wet dreams of "I found the EDGE: Never-ever-seen RSI and MACD settings" that no one has ever used before. Let me explain. For example I have profitable system. But the costs are: equipment, Internet, electricity, office rent, taxes, salaries and so on. 3 coders working on it, so only the salary costs are at least 30000$/mo. Do you really think some will share the "system"? And of course the system is very complicated, so it is just not possible to share it even if some...
Oh boy i hope no one took your post serious.
There is just zero logic in what you are trying to say........
Never Ever Give Up!
  • #115
  • Jun 19, 2023 6:36am Jun 19, 2023 6:36am
Quoting ryuryu
No one shares any profitable systems. It's just not possible. All they share are wet dreams of "I found the EDGE: Never-ever-seen RSI and MACD settings" that no one has ever used before. Let me explain. For example I have profitable system. But the costs are: equipment, Internet, electricity, office rent, taxes, salaries and so on. 3 coders working on it, so only the salary costs are at least 30000$/mo. Do you really think some will share the "system"? And of course the system is very complicated, so it is just not possible to share it even if some...
I hope for you they will find/make a good working strategy soon for you.
With spending that much money every month they better be good!
It's better to be out wishing to be in... than to be in wishing to be out!
  • #116
  • Jun 19, 2023 11:37am Jun 19, 2023 11:37am
theres no downside to sharing a profitable system because if you gave a 100 people the holy grail of trading only one, maybe 2 would use it and succeed.

there was a famous experiment done from a bet between two traders in the 80's...richard dennis taught 25 people how to trade his system and some flourished but majority didnt so stop with the nonsence the more people that use one sysstem it will stop working



Nearly 40 years after the initial experiment, the original Turtle Traders are doing all sorts of things. Some remain in the financial world, while others have moved on to unrelated careers – everything from journalism and writing to non-profit work.
Jim DiMaria was one who stuck with investing long after the experiment was complete. He launched his own firm, which gave him the opportunity to apply the Turtle Rules – updated for modern conditions – to grow his clients’ wealth.
When reflecting on the Turtle Trading experiment, DiMaria said he considers it a success. In an interview with WBEZ Chicago, he said, “Yes, trading can be taught…but maybe not to just anyone.” https://financhill.com/blog/investin...ion%20required.

trading is the hardest way to make easy money LOL
short trump and go long the deepstate
  • #117
  • Jun 19, 2023 3:37pm Jun 19, 2023 3:37pm
Quoting Coolleen
A profitable system/strategy no longer remain profitable when majority starts following... why do people share their system for free?
Would you give an example of a system which at one point profitable only to no longer be? Say something like a win rate of over 91% followed by a win rate of 50% over same time spand?

Quoting ryuryu
No one shares any profitable systems. It's just not possible. All they share are wet dreams of "I found the EDGE: Never-ever-seen RSI and MACD settings" that no one has ever used before. Let me explain. For example I have profitable system. But the costs are: equipment, Internet, electricity, office rent, taxes, salaries and so on. 3 coders working on it, so only the salary costs are at least 30000$/mo. Do you really think some will share the "system"? And of course the system is very complicated, so it is just not possible to share it even if some...

So sad that you lack transparency. The wonderful thing about trading now and days is the fact that you have the ability of revealing your trades and exposure to the market in real time.

I would go as far as saying as you have unlimited value if someone could have an increasing equity curve while compounding their gains.
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Threesome Daddy
  • #118
  • Jun 19, 2023 3:45pm Jun 19, 2023 3:45pm
Quoting Dutchy Daxy
{quote} What is a profitable "system" or strategy for one trader, doesn't mean automatically it will work out good for an other trader. Each trader has to work its way up to find a way of trading what suits him and could make him/her profitable over (much screen) time I don't believe in automated trading systems/stratgies. They can work some time profitable, but when markets conditions/behaviour changes over time they become useless. So IMHO it remains human work with all kind of emotions involved. That makes a so called profitable strategy/system...

If you are “ following” someone, then the rules down to money management should all be the same.
Threesome Daddy
  • #119
  • Jun 20, 2023 1:51am Jun 20, 2023 1:51am
A person's trading style is very personal and needs to suit one's lifestyle, commitments, desires, personal psychology, knowledge, and experience. Sharing trading strategies is more about sharing trading ideas to evaluate, adapt or reject. And I think that's a good thing as long as you keep focused on your way. Technique jumping is a great way of losing money or never even actually trading. Also finally there are so many traders out there that I don't think the sharing of one strategy will make one iota of difference. That goes for the heavy self-promoters on YouTube as well.
  • #120
  • Jun 20, 2023 4:52am Jun 20, 2023 4:52am
Quoting SingaRich
So sad that you lack transparency. The wonderful thing about trading now and days is the fact that you have the ability of revealing your trades and exposure to the market in real time. I would go as far as saying as you have unlimited value if someone could have an increasing equity curve while compounding their gains.
There are no friends in trading. We are all competitors. Giving someone the opportunity to earn the most idiotic occupation. Spending your money and your time to disclose transactions is also idiotic and extremely unsafe. Therefore, I am sure that no one will ever share real deals as well as teach someone how to make money.

All these clowns with trackers and YouTube channels are just scammers. It is absolutely impossible to beat a major player with the help of free indicators and drawing tools.

Wet dreams of finding excellent settings for well-known indicators, drawing a couple of colorful lines on the chart and sitting on the beach watching your account grow - will remain wet dreams. And when it comes to the realization that there are no resources for normal training, for infrastructure, for development, then the only way out is to start teaching / sharing.
Observer effect
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