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  • #16,301
  • Jun 3, 2023 4:24am Jun 3, 2023 4:24am
Quoting OutThere
{quote} I don't really follow those competitions any more but that particular one I think was a specific ea championship contest. Anyways, I did a google search and there were some staggering gains on fxblue contest but I'm sure there are other venues too.
I have seen in a competition EAs that earn more than 100% in a couple of days, with DD limit of 5% per day, Martingale not allowed and lot size limit to notional of 1 million USD.
They are Arbitrage EAs and trade only gold.
No miracles are expected.
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  • #16,302
  • Jun 3, 2023 7:28am Jun 3, 2023 7:28am
Can I just ask if any traders on here have used Funded Traded Plus and qualified? Also how did they find trading on the Eightcap platform that they use??

I used their demo account on Friday and wasn't too impressed but it may have been an issue my end so just wandered how anyone else using it on regular basis fairs??
Feel the Fear and do it anyway!!!
  • #16,303
  • Jun 3, 2023 1:07pm Jun 3, 2023 1:07pm
Quoting navk
{quote} A seguir estão minhas dicas: 1. Eu negocio apenas gbpusd 2. Eu negocio apenas em níveis importantes. ( sup, resistência, 4h ) 3. Sigo uma gestão de risco estrita, 3% em um dia. 4. Me inscrevi no MFF... eles permitem 12% de risco. Significa que posso perder 3% consecutivamente por 4 dias. 5. Eu negocio GBPUSD na sessão de Londres....fácil de capturar pips. Em seguida, na sessão de NY. 6. Se eu conseguir fazer 0,6% a 1 0r 1,5% em um dia, paro de negociar naquele dia para não perder o que ganhei. Este é um aspecto importante para não ser ganancioso....
Thanks
  • #16,304
  • Jun 3, 2023 4:28pm Jun 3, 2023 4:28pm
Kind interesting...
Why The Prop Firm Industry Could Be in Serious trouble//
https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1YqJDoEYomwGV?s=20
  • #16,305
  • Jun 3, 2023 5:40pm Jun 3, 2023 5:40pm
Hello everyone,

I finally got my first payout with Blue Guardian but they are again faced with complaints in the Telegram group for a payment of 7 K not made. The cause: latency arbitrage and reverse trading (this last point has not been proven)
They seem to be struggling and have done a huge promotion (20%) to make fresh money. It will be without me for my part (regarding this offer)
  • #16,306
  • Jun 3, 2023 7:06pm Jun 3, 2023 7:06pm
Quoting Boulder
Kind interesting... Why The Prop Firm Industry Could Be in Serious trouble// https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1YqJDoEYomwGV?s=20
Too long audio. Any specific points ?
  • #16,307
  • Jun 3, 2023 8:23pm Jun 3, 2023 8:23pm
You Americans can't trade gold?
https://www.forex.academy/why-cant-a...ide%20the%20US.
  • #16,308
  • Jun 3, 2023 8:33pm Jun 3, 2023 8:33pm
Quoting youngD
{quote} I hired programmer years ago to make 2 eas, still have it somewhere. It was based on heiken ashi plus some advance MM features. But after some time I realized that instead of optimalization and working with Ea it was easier just catch one good swing on daily/ weekly chart and grab 20-30 % profit, same money EA will earn during that time. Actually less work with manual because it takes few minutes. But now i am day trading and never looked back since few years, not chasing new indis Eas no need for this. All I need is some volatility (us30...
Ya I'd love to grab 20-30 % profit catching one good swing on daily/ weekly but 'catching a good swing' is a loaded phrase for both manual and EA trading. So much can go into catching a good swing that books have been written about it and many have lost the farm over it and it is the foundation of success if you can just casually grab 20-30 % on a good swing. I'm sure it is every traders' dream to just go grab 20-30 %. Thanks for the idea tho.
  • #16,309
  • Jun 3, 2023 8:37pm Jun 3, 2023 8:37pm
Quoting readme
{quote} I have seen in a competition EAs that earn more than 100% in a couple of days, with DD limit of 5% per day, Martingale not allowed and lot size limit to notional of 1 million USD. They are Arbitrage EAs and trade only gold. No miracles are expected. {image}
You know they are Arbitrage EAs and trade only gold or are you just guessing?
I see everywhere that Arbitrage is against most any broker rules but you are saying this contest administrator allows it and participants can openly use arbitrage trading?
  • #16,310
  • Jun 3, 2023 9:01pm Jun 3, 2023 9:01pm
Quoting OutThere
You Americans can't trade gold? https://www.forex.academy/why-cant-a...ide%20the%20US.
That Dodd-Frank Act, along with the [un]Patriot Act, is outrageous and limits American citizens--but not the banks!--from doing almost anything in both crypto and forex. All under the guise of cleaning up the banking industry and "protecting" the citizens. It's true intent is quite the opposite, but I don't want to dive into a political thread here. In short, we have to use unlicensed brokers outside of the USA to do much of anything; and those refuse to do banking with the USA (for good reason) so we need to convert to crypto and back to transfer funds, which has it's own tax complications. This is why prop firms are so appealing to US citizens, to give us the ability to use good brokers that we don't otherwise have access to anymore.
  • #16,311
  • Jun 3, 2023 9:23pm Jun 3, 2023 9:23pm
Quoting OutThere
You Americans can't trade gold? https://www.forex.academy/why-cant-a...ide%20the%20US.
Gold is traded freely with any offshore broker. That article misstates CFTC regulations. There are no laws in place to prohibit someone from using any offshore broker.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #16,312
  • Jun 3, 2023 10:28pm Jun 3, 2023 10:28pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Gold is traded freely with any offshore broker. That article misstates CFTC regulations. There are no laws in place to prohibit someone from using any offshore broker.
Yes, that would be quite difficult to enforce.
  • #16,313
  • Edited Jun 4, 2023 2:59am Jun 3, 2023 10:29pm | Edited Jun 4, 2023 2:59am
Quoting Cryptosurf
There are no laws in place to prohibit someone from using any offshore broker.
-Yes. This is why it is so important that these remote prop firms follow suit and keep all operations within a broker-friendly jurisdiction (i.e. outside of the reach of regulatory bullies).

Those that are setting up shop or have operations within the U.S. and other, non-friendly locations, could potentially be providing the ingredients for a very dangerous recipe, since it will allow a backdoor into these operations and bring about wet-blanket regulation across the board (or worse).

My hope is that the remote prop model will be able to survive in just the same way as my friendly offshore brokers do... outside of the reach of long-armed regulation that so graciously spends our hard-earned tax dollars in an endless effort to protect us from our own choices.
  • #16,314
  • Jun 3, 2023 10:31pm Jun 3, 2023 10:31pm
Quoting AaronPriest
{quote} That Dodd-Frank Act, along with the [un]Patriot Act, is outrageous and limits American citizens--but not the banks!--from doing almost anything in both crypto and forex. All under the guise of cleaning up the banking industry and "protecting" the citizens. It's true intent is quite the opposite, but I don't want to dive into a political thread here. In short, we have to use unlicensed brokers outside of the USA to do much of anything; and those refuse to do banking with the USA (for good reason) so we need to convert to crypto and back to...
Different administrations and different Treasury secretaries are keeping it the same. Seems to be the last subject the two parties want to feud about. It's bipartisan. They know something that the rest doesn't know.
  • #16,315
  • Jun 3, 2023 10:42pm Jun 3, 2023 10:42pm
Quoting Nehemah
Hello everyone, I finally got my first payout with Blue Guardian but they are again faced with complaints in the Telegram group for a payment of 7 K not made. The cause: latency arbitrage and reverse trading (this last point has not been proven) They seem to be struggling and have done a huge promotion (20%) to make fresh money. It will be without me for my part (regarding this offer)
How do they even know someone's trades are the result of latency arbitrage?
The way I understand it, you open platforms from 2 different brokers. The EA based on something similar to copy trading, somehow monitors the prices of both brokers and at opportune times locks in the difference in prices that happened obviously due to latency. Each instant of the trading platform will have its own set of trades that just look like buy and sells. You'd have to have both accounts side by side to see what is going on or you'd have to analyze the statements and compare timing. That would be a forensic audit. Who is qualified to perform a forensic audit of someone's trades and how would the proof look like?
Sounds really fishy. How would that happen in an unregulated industry where everything goes?
  • #16,316
  • Edited Jun 4, 2023 10:28am Jun 3, 2023 11:44pm | Edited Jun 4, 2023 10:28am
Quoting Capablanca
Too long audio. Any specific points ?
-I am still listening, but this is a basic summary of what he has been talking about (in my own words and interpretation):

He talks about how firms that provide offerings that are more trader-friendly (easier rules, lower profit targets, lower prices etc.), do so by reducing their overall profit margins, which equates to taking on more risk for the firm, and how being too competitive can result in a point of negative return.

He also states that newer and existing firms that improve their offerings as a way to be or remain competitive, can be bad for the prop business because the result of such behavior could ultimately drive down profit margins, which can lead to greater risk for the industry since the overhead costs for firms is significant and are more involved than what most people realize.

When firms lower their standards for competitive reasoning and decide to take on more risk, this creates added pressure for other firms to follow suit, which can lead to many firms operating on razor-thin margins.

If a large batch of firms have to shutter or change their rules/offerings as a result of operating on such tight margins, this can create a lot of mis-trust among traders/customers, which can lead to potential regulatory burden and a potential for the surviving firms to get slammed with an influx of new customers that they may not be prepared to handle etc..

There may come a point in time when the prop industry will need to readjust how it is operating, because right now, the way that things are trending, firms are offering more and more trader-friendly conditions, which is good, but only to a certain point.

He predicts that this readjustment may occur as soon as next year. When that happens, larger firms might lose their market share because they want to sustain their profit margins in order to ensure long-term sustainability. This could result in these larger firms taking a leap of faith, out of desperation, to make an aggressive move to capture more market share or build their business back up, but in an unsustainable way in terms of long-term survivability. (he doesn't say it, but I assumed that he might have been referring to FTMO's recent change to drop the minimum trading days as an example of what this might look like)

He says that this should not be about trader vs. prop, but that the goal should be to find a good balance to where props can sustain their business for the long-term while traders can have the funding that they deserve etc.. He says that he doesn't want to scare people. He does not believe that the prop industry will ever collapse, holistically, but that there might be some bumps in the road that may need to happen in order for positive change to occur.

We are in a prop firm bubble right now. The only reason that it has not burst yet is because the number of new people (traders) coming into this space and buying challenges is also increasing at a very similar, if not bigger, rate.

Based on all of the 'insider data' that he and others have access to, he says that traders are undeniably getting better. Pass-rates are improving across the board. Even with good traders, this presents additional risk for firms.

He says that he is 100% confident that regulation is coming. What he is not confident about is the 'when' and 'what' that might look like. Based on discussion with lawyers and others, it will likely happen over the next 2, 3 or 4 years (not in 2023), and will primarily affect the consumer side of how a business operates and less the financial side. He uses examples of transparency with regard to firms being required to publish actual pass-rates, showing proof of violation of terms, how firms are marketing their products (ensuring ethical and honest marketing practices etc.).

Prop firms will likely be required to show proof that they are A-booking a percentage of their traders if they are advertising an A-book or hybrid model. There will likely be regulations on margin requirements that require firms to hold funds in a margin account based on the percentage of traders that they are claiming to be A-booking. Firms will need to be able to show proof to regulatory agency that they have the funds to payout their traders and A-book their traders (if that is what they are doing).

In addition to the aforementioned regulatory requirements, there will be the standard stuff, like audits, that require showing their books, showing what kind of assets they have, what their liability is to traders, how much cash they have on-hand et al.. There will also be various disclosure requirements that give insight into the company; who owns it, where offices are located (area of operations) etc..

These kinds of things will likely push a lot of the smaller (and questionable) firms out of the space.

---------------

I am only half-way through, but this is probably enough to get the gist of what he is talking about. People can listen if they want to learn more.

I think, with regard to regulatory requirements, especially the auditing stuff, this will likely affect firms that are operating within the jurisdictional reach of various regulatory groups, as I cannot imagine that all of this will be enforceable in all regions.

Overall, he seems to have given a lot of thought about all of this, which is good.
  • #16,317
  • Jun 4, 2023 12:16am Jun 4, 2023 12:16am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I am only about 25 minutes in, but this is a basic summary of what he has been talking about: He talks about how firms that provide offerings that are more trader-friendly (easier rules, lower profit targets, lower prices etc.), do so by reducing their overall profit margins, which equates to taking on more risk for the firm, and how being too competitive can result in a point of negative return. He also states that newer and existing firms that improve their offerings as a way to be or remain competitive, can be bad for the prop business...
Makes complete sense. New firms are giving away too much, always a discount going one, always a giving away going on, trading competition goin on where thousands of USD is given away, no minimum trading days for gamblers. So many benefits to the traders. As a trader this seems good for us but I don't believe that a firm doing all these giving away continuously won't face serious problem of being bankrupt. At certain point good and profitable traders will realize that these new prop firms with Eightcap broker doesn't offer any better conditions than FTMO or MFF and eventually profitable traders and big traders will choose them and stay with them. Only new traders and small capital traders will be attracted to new prop firms that can cause serious problem to give huge payout to a bunch of lucky traders. This will happen inevitably. Only those are big like FTMO and MFF with less friendly conditions for new traders and better conditions for profitable traders will survive.
  • #16,318
  • Jun 4, 2023 2:06am Jun 4, 2023 2:06am
Quoting Capablanca
Too long audio. Any specific points ?
-In addition to the points mentioned previously, he also added this at the end of the call (taken directly from CC):

"OK, so we we are working on, I don't want to say a unique type of white label approach to prop firms. And when I say white label, there's a negative connotation.
With white label and what I mean by that is so like let's say you're an influencer, you sell a course, you sell a product or service of any kind, you have a website. So instead of using like using the affiliate traditional path of referring people to our services for an 8 to 10% Commission, we would have a custom application checkout page built onto your platform, that uses your branding, that uses your name, that uses your rule sets that are agreed to upon us.

And then everything is executed on our stats page, but it'll be branded to the specific person, so you can call it whatever your name is. If you're selling a product called the Trading Master Class, you can have the Trading Master Class challenge with your branding you're and you can get. You'll get a cut of it, obviously, but the whole cool thing about this is It allows you to basically become a mini prop firm owner without the hassle of having to deal with it right. You'll just be selling your challenges. You can make it part of your course curriculum. You could make it something that you have for traders or just people that you like in general.

Like let's say you're a big YouTuber and you just want to have it as part of your YouTube link. Stuff like that. So that that is something I think that's unique and cool. Obviously since it's now public information, I'm sure other firms will work on it, but we hope to launch that relatively quickly just depending on how fast we can get up the integration work."
  • #16,319
  • Jun 4, 2023 2:21am Jun 4, 2023 2:21am
After all of this, there was no mention of legalities. I think, having regulators require proof of A/B-booking is only part of the equation. The more important question still remains and has yet to be discussed, which is, what percentage of A/B-booking will be sufficient to not constitute a ponzi? And for that matter, why is this not considered gambling from a legal and technical perspective?

If this passes the ponzi test, then one would think that regulators will consider this to be either one of two things: trading or gambling, both of which come with their own set of compliance complications, legal requirements (or ramifications) and costly burdens etc.. Not to mention the fact that the advertising and marketing of such services all come with their own set of strict rules and requirements, and this would not only be applicable to firms, but to the people that promote them, depending on country of origin etc..

But what do I know? I can honestly only speculate about such things, and that is the truth. Which all circles back to my previous post.
  • #16,320
  • Jun 4, 2023 3:14am Jun 4, 2023 3:14am
in my view it will end up same as it was with brokers when leverage was taken down to 1:30, binary options and any other changes we had in past. Bigger reputable prop firms will go 2 ways. They will work with regulators and apply new rules if necessary and by the time they will open offices with offshore for traders who like to trade same way it is now. Same as Icmarkets. You can have 1:500 leverage with them everything works like it used to you only choose jurisdiction . I believe the problems with any trading type will not affect traders until we got internet wallets crypto transfers deels etc. Because until you got way to withdraw profits and prop firms are able to pay you and most important to take money from you they will find the way to provide service.
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