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  • #16,101
  • May 27, 2023 10:12am May 27, 2023 10:12am
Quoting Takisd
No time limit is stupid and defeats the purpose of a prop firm. We should be against it not for it as it will lead to massive negatives that we have already seen TFTP do with blatant manipulation to cause loss. It might work for a little bit until the market doesn't see it as hype, then it will be the demise of some companies as servers fill up with trash, perform worse and ultimately lead to massive downfall. Remember the free reset policies during the initial boom of prop firms, where did that go? It seems way more reasonable than no time limit...
Depends how you see it. If a pharmacist took the course in 1 hour or 1 day would you trust him ?
I can accept that maybe this should be limited to 90 days or 120 days instead of unlimited, then I would agree with you. But 30 days for 10% it's not also a great metric. We have to go over some reasonable risk to be able to do this many times.
  • #16,102
  • May 27, 2023 10:23am May 27, 2023 10:23am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Hummm.... you got a point. Now I'm not sure what Cryptosurf was talking about. If it was about unlimited days challenge or no minimum days to pass. Anyway, unlimited days can't be worse for traders because you still have an option to pass in 30 days if you want. Or more if you prefer so. No minimum days it's not bad either. If the prop allows people to pass in 1 hour and then fill the remaining days with 0.01 lot trades why is that different than no minimum days ? You just did the job in 1 hour and then have to wait another 4 or 5 days....
Yes, the pass in an hour and trade 0.01 for 5 days is pointless. They claim the minimum days is for consistency. Talk about hypocrisy. I'd say minimum of 6 months would show consistency, plus if someone trades 10 lots on day 1 and then 0.01 for 4 days.....not very consistent.
Bottom line.....it's all marketing, they are not looking for "good traders" as they claim. It is what it is. Some understand what it is, others are fooled by the marketing. Some have figured out how to work it, most haven't.
  • #16,103
  • May 27, 2023 10:30am May 27, 2023 10:30am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Hummm.... you got a point. Now I'm not sure what Cryptosurf was talking about. If it was about unlimited days challenge or no minimum days to pass. Anyway, unlimited days can't be worse for traders because you still have an option to pass in 30 days if you want. Or more if you prefer so. No minimum days it's not bad either. If the prop allows people to pass in 1 hour and then fill the remaining days with 0.01 lot trades why is that different than no minimum days ? You just did the job in 1 hour and then have to wait another 4 or 5 days....
The minimum days is what I was referring to. The biggest problem aspiring traders/gamblers have is greed and FOMO. They want to hit home runs on every trade. Big wins on every trade, not letting every opportunity pass them by.

The reality is that long term success in trading is a grind. Each successful trade is a chore you must be consistent with. It’s no longer surprising, it’s rather uneventful. Identify the setup, pull the trade, close it in profit. Get up every day and repeat.

Aspiring traders have the problem of making the same mistakes over and over.

The no minimum days keeps the gamblers in the chase. They have the opportunity to chase it again after repeatedly blowing the account. To the benefit of the prop firm.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #16,104
  • May 27, 2023 10:34am May 27, 2023 10:34am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, the pass in an hour and trade 0.01 for 5 days is pointless. They claim the minimum days is for consistency. Talk about hypocrisy. I'd say minimum of 6 months would show consistency, plus if someone trades 10 lots on day 1 and then 0.01 for 4 days.....not very consistent. Bottom line.....it's all marketing, they are not looking for "good traders" as they claim. It is what it is. Some understand what it is, others are fooled by the marketing. Some have figured out how to work it, most haven't.
Agreed, the reality is that none of these prop firms depend on successful traders. They want gamblers to empty their wallets on a consistent basis chasing the dream.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #16,105
  • May 27, 2023 10:35am May 27, 2023 10:35am
Hello. I have seen the list which propfirms are recommended. Buy I didn't saw one propfirm Alphacapitalgroup. I was thinking to purchase account which this Propfirm. I need good suggestion.
  • #16,106
  • May 27, 2023 10:37am May 27, 2023 10:37am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} The minimum days is what I was referring to. The biggest problem aspiring traders/gamblers have is greed and FOMO. They want to hit home runs on every trade. Big wins on every trade, not letting every opportunity pass them by. The reality is that long term success in trading is a grind. Each successful trade is a chore you must be consistent with. It’s no longer surprising, it’s rather uneventful. Identify the setup, pull the trade, close it in profit. Get up every day and repeat. Aspiring traders have the problem of making the same mistakes...
I agree with you but no mimimum days it's the same than minimum 10 days and then allowing to pass in 1 hour and 9 days of 0.01 lot.

Anyway, I don't think this is a trading industry looking for good traders. I see internet props as gambling companies. So more similar to casinos than traditional props.
  • #16,107
  • May 27, 2023 10:47am May 27, 2023 10:47am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} The minimum days is what I was referring to. The biggest problem aspiring traders/gamblers have is greed and FOMO. They want to hit home runs on every trade. Big wins on every trade, not letting every opportunity pass them by. The reality is that long term success in trading is a grind. Each successful trade is a chore you must be consistent with. It’s no longer surprising, it’s rather uneventful. Identify the setup, pull the trade, close it in profit. Get up every day and repeat. Aspiring traders have the problem of making the same mistakes...
Grind is exactly what it is. Should be emotionless and boring. The EXACT opposite of who the props try to attract. Then again, it truly is no different than trading in general....most blow up account and continuosly reload until they figure it out or give up. Atleast with the prop, if successful, you get a much larger account to trade for the same money you'd be blowing on a personal account.
Perhaps, the no max days firms, if a viable model, will attract the better traders. I'm all-in on it once I see some reliability in these firms.
  • #16,108
  • Edited 11:14am May 27, 2023 11:02am | Edited 11:14am
Why we here classify traders passing with minumum days are gamblers. If the traders are indeed gamblers, no matter how many days you give them, one day or 100 days , gamblers will risk all . Trading days have nothing to do with it. If you know what you doing and pass in one day or within hours, especially do that many times in your prop trading career , its skills that many others wish to have. Since trading is not just technical, there is a lot to do with psychological . how you manage your risks.
For example, a trader's trade from yesterday , do i call it gamble? no , I call this a very skilled trade. I want to learn the trade like this instead otherwise.
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  • #16,109
  • May 27, 2023 11:13am May 27, 2023 11:13am
Quoting Boulder
Why we here classify traders passing with minumum days are gamblers. If the traders are indeed gamblers, no matter how many days you give them, one day or 100 days , gamblers will risk all . Trading days have nothing to do with it. If you know what you doing and pass in one day or within hours, especially do that many times in your prop trading career , its skills that others might not have. Since trading is not just technical, there is a lot to do with psychological . For example, a trader's trade from yesterday , do i call it gamble? no , I call...
I'll give you my honest opinion. You have roughly 20 pips up trend in that chart. That's roughly 0.2% of 1.0700 of EURUSD

If you pass 8% or 10% target with those 0.2% (20 pips) you have to be incurring in a massive risk (aprox 50x leverage aprox).
  • #16,110
  • May 27, 2023 11:22am May 27, 2023 11:22am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I'll give you my honest opinion. You have roughly 20 pips up trend in that chart. That's roughly 0.2% of 1.0700 of EURUSD If you pass 8% or 10% target with those 0.2% (20 pips) you have to be incurring in a massive risk (aprox 50x leverage aprox).
That is live account. not for challenge,
I just give an example regarding to gamble on account. if the traders know what they are doing, they can make in an hour, it may take others many days/months to make the amount. we can't assume the traders are gamblers if they can pass with mini days
  • #16,111
  • May 27, 2023 11:26am May 27, 2023 11:26am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Grind is exactly what it is. Should be emotionless and boring. The EXACT opposite of who the props try to attract. Then again, it truly is no different than trading in general....most blow up account and continuosly reload until they figure it out or give up. Atleast with the prop, if successful, you get a much larger account to trade for the same money you'd be blowing on a personal account. Perhaps, the no max days firms, if a viable model, will attract the better traders. I'm all-in on it once I see some reliability in these firms.
Like I said before the road to successful trading is an expensive one, paved with blown accounts.

Theres a chap in one of the prop firm FB groups who to considers himself a self made hedge fund. He’s spent over 150k chasing prop firms and has yet to achieve a single payout.

Only thing he’s good at is chasing leader boards and and social media likes.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #16,112
  • May 27, 2023 11:30am May 27, 2023 11:30am
Quoting Boulder
{quote} That is live account. not for challenge, I just give an example regarding to gamble on account. if the traders know what they are doing, they can make in an hour, it may take others many days/months to make the amount. we can't assume the traders are gamblers if they can pass with mini days
OK, ok, I got your point and I 100% agree. You may gamble it no matter if it's 1 hour or 100 days.
  • #16,113
  • Edited 12:01pm May 27, 2023 11:49am | Edited 12:01pm
Quoting Boulder
{quote} That is live account. not for challenge, I just give an example regarding to gamble on account. if the traders know what they are doing, they can make in an hour, it may take others many days/months to make the amount. we can't assume the traders are gamblers if they can pass with mini days
But being that ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN AT ANY TIME in the market, that pass in one trade also results in fail in one trade if it goes the wrong way.
I believe the best way to approach the challenge if you wish to pass as quickly as possible is wait for the PA, get in with larger than normal position and get stop to BE as quick as possible. You will have a lot of BE trades, but 1-2 runners should pass you. Phase 1 is obviously the toughest aspect. Phase 2 you can actually trade pretty normal as it is only 2.5% per month (on equity) and of course, once live, scale back to whatever your risk tolerance is.
  • #16,114
  • May 27, 2023 11:56am May 27, 2023 11:56am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Like I said before the road to successful trading is an expensive one, paved with blown accounts. Theres a chap in one of the prop firm FB groups who to considers himself a self made hedge fund. He’s spent over 150k chasing prop firms and has yet to achieve a single payout. Only thing he’s good at is chasing leader boards and and social media likes.
Wow. 150K. There is a point of diminishing return on these things. Taking 2-3 times to pass a 100K at a cost of $1500 to net 100K account with 10K max loss is OK, as you are still netting 6+ times your investment, fee refund ($500) you're now only down 1K and 1.25% pofit ($1000 payout) and you're free rolling. Very basic example, but $150K???? I mean if he eventually gets to 2 million in funding (200K max loss).....but at what point do you realize you need to change something?
There is nothing wrong with losing/blowing accounts........we all do it. The key is analyzing why it happened and learning from it, this is what eventaully makes you an above average/great trader.
  • #16,115
  • May 27, 2023 12:25pm May 27, 2023 12:25pm
Quoting Takisd
No time limit is stupid and defeats the purpose of a prop firm. We should be against it not for it as it will lead to massive negatives that we have already seen TFTP do with blatant manipulation to cause loss. It might work for a little bit until the market doesn't see it as hype, then it will be the demise of some companies as servers fill up with trash, perform worse and ultimately lead to massive downfall. Remember the free reset policies during the initial boom of prop firms, where did that go? It seems way more reasonable than no time...
Exactly(in bold), you hit the nail on the head. These prop firms have no choice but to do this, it is their survival instinct.
  • #16,116
  • May 27, 2023 12:33pm May 27, 2023 12:33pm
Quoting driven18
{quote} Exactly(in bold), you hit the nail on the head. These prop firms have no choice but to do this, it is their survival instinct.
They may try, yes, but any company doing that massively, killing account with absurd slippage, will create bad reputation. The market will take care of sweeping them.
  • #16,117
  • May 27, 2023 12:43pm May 27, 2023 12:43pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} They may try, yes, but any company doing that massively, killing account with absurd slippage, will create bad reputation. The market will take care of sweeping them.
Not before they make their million(s), after that, they do not give a fuck about you.
  • #16,118
  • May 27, 2023 1:34pm May 27, 2023 1:34pm
Quoting driven18
{quote} Not before they make their million(s), after that, they do not give a fuck about you.
You're right, but that's the price we pay if we want to play the game. The only way of not getting scammed is not participating in it because this industry will always have scammers.

We saw already some medium dimensioned ones like funding talent, TPT, First class, BluFx. And many more will come. Maybe will be TFT. Maybe will be someone else. Nobody can say that even MFF or FTMO won't scam. It's enough that one day their authorities order them to close doors and they will do it or face jail, leaving people with unpaid payouts and no refunds.

On the other side, if regulation ever comes to prevent this, then the whole industry will collapse because this only works well as a far-west gambling unregulated industry.
  • #16,119
  • May 27, 2023 2:43pm May 27, 2023 2:43pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} They may try, yes, but any company doing that massively, killing account with absurd slippage, will create bad reputation. The market will take care of sweeping them.
But 50% off 10k accounts bro.
  • #16,120
  • May 27, 2023 3:16pm May 27, 2023 3:16pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} But 50% off 10k accounts bro.
Actually massive discount is also a trap. I will be more worried if they give discount on 100K or above. I remember funding talent also gave discount when they are about to go busted. Any prop firm be it FTMO or MyFF have casino model, moment external regulation or client base shifted they will go out of business.
These prop firms should be used like cash back offer the whatever you can spread risk with couple of them and build personal account.
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