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  • #15,061
  • Apr 18, 2023 10:35am Apr 18, 2023 10:35am
No formula of risk takes leverage into consideration. Leverage only matters for the number of trades you can open at the same time.
  • #15,062
  • Apr 18, 2023 10:37am Apr 18, 2023 10:37am
Quoting forexbali
{quote} 5ers had his own liquidity!!! so you are saying that now 5ers made a switch to eightcap? if yes, this is why they said soon they will add crypto and other missing products!
Yes they use Eightcap broker. I trade with them.
Survival intelligence is more important than entry intelligence
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  • #15,063
  • Apr 18, 2023 10:44am Apr 18, 2023 10:44am
Quoting elemiliman
{quote} Yes they use Eightcap broker. I trade with them.
so I will update the spreadsheet with this new information, 5ers is now eightcap! not so good for many that doesn't like eightcap. But at least we know.
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in holiday till end of November
  • #15,064
  • Apr 18, 2023 10:56am Apr 18, 2023 10:56am
Quoting elemiliman
{quote} Yes they use Eightcap broker. I trade with them.
All models or just the new 2 step challenge model?
  • #15,065
  • Edited 11:33am Apr 18, 2023 11:10am | Edited 11:33am
Quoting forexbali
I was off for 2 days, sorry. If anyone had no answer from me, ask again. I have a new idea to pass PROP challenge, and beat them, with a copier. Anyone interested to hear it? I bring this demo up of 375% in 13 days, less weekends is like 7-8 trading days. I was using it thinking to copy on a prop with 20 time less leverage, so 375%/20=18.75% net profit The idea is this: to trade aggressively a demo account (1:100 leverage) of 400K thinking to copy a day on a 400K prop account (but it can be also a 5K account) in a way that if I do even -99% the...
Though I'm not sure I understand your proposed approach I guess it might actually be quite similar to mine.

I use a copier too, because I have to. And in the past I was trading small accounts very aggressively. My idea was to put a small amount on the account which I knew I could lose even several times. Like $100. And I was just trying to get maximum out of that money. Many times I was able to close the day with eg. $300 or $400. Making 100% was sometimes a matter of a few hours or even minutes. Some other day I lost the whole account.

But there was one thing which all these days had in common - I didn't care about what was going to happen. I was trading in a good mood, relaxed and without any fear of losing the money or a greed to make a fortune out of that $100. I was just playing out with the money. And that's the whole point - I was usually much more successful trading $100 than trading $100K (which I made once out of ~1,000 within about 2 weeks and then lost it all again in the same time)

So when I started trading prop accounts knowing I had to use a copier, instead of using e.g. $100K I always use only $1,000 balance for my master account. That balance represents the total DD on the prop account for me (with some firms with 8% total DD it now resides at the 200 level). Similarly, the daily DD level is at $500. If I trade 100K prop account I use a multiplier of 10x, if I trade 300K I use 30x etc. When I bring the account to $1,800 (or $1,500 resp.) I know I reached the target. I trade small money but control much large capital. All of that with easy and no stress.

Another advantage is that I can easy control multiple accounts of various sizes all at once - I just use appropriate multiplication factors for each account - while the risk management and position sizing remains trivial and always the same - everything is based on the reference amount of $1,000. This makes all things so much easier for me.

I'm not sure if this is what you meant but it is what I use and what works pretty good for me so far.

EDIT: and btw. I have to use a high leverage on my master account of course, right now it is 1:100 and sometimes I fully utilize it so even 1:200 might come handy
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #15,066
  • Apr 18, 2023 11:15am Apr 18, 2023 11:15am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} All models or just the new 2 step challenge model?
I can only say for the bootcamp and instant funding because those are the two I use.
Survival intelligence is more important than entry intelligence
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  • #15,067
  • Apr 18, 2023 11:24am Apr 18, 2023 11:24am
Quoting elemiliman
{quote} I can only say for the bootcamp and instant funding because those are the two I use.
Wow. I wonder when they dropped their own liquidity and went to 8 cap.....possibly when they added indices???? Very interesting, though, it's almost like going backwards.... Most firms use a broker feed UNTIL they secure their own liquidity.
  • #15,068
  • Apr 18, 2023 11:27am Apr 18, 2023 11:27am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Wow. I wonder when they dropped their own liquidity and went to 8 cap.....possibly when they added indices???? Very interesting, though, it's almost like going backwards.... Most firms use a broker feed UNTIL they secure their own liquidity.
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Looks like they have not updated their FAQs either.
  • #15,069
  • Apr 18, 2023 11:37am Apr 18, 2023 11:37am
MyFundedFX is offering a super discount to try and get traders to test them out. Only for 5K accounts running thru April 21st.

So for $30, you can test them out. Not a bad idea on their part.
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Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #15,070
  • Apr 18, 2023 12:11pm Apr 18, 2023 12:11pm
Quoting maflip
{quote} Downside is they use eightCRAP as the broker.
Believe or not, most of my current prop accounts are hosted on 8cap and cannot say a bad word about their spreads, slippage or execution in general. E8 and TFTP are much worse. Even MFF is causing me more troubles (Duplikium connectivity) compared to 8cap.
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #15,071
  • Apr 18, 2023 12:27pm Apr 18, 2023 12:27pm
Quoting Vitore
{quote} Believe or not, most of my current prop accounts are hosted on 8cap and cannot say a bad word about their spreads, slippage or execution in general. E8 and TFTP are much worse. Even MFF is causing me more troubles (Duplikium connectivity) compared to 8cap.
But TPT is also 8cap, although different server (they started using EightcapEU-Live (Demo) about 1 or 2 weeks ago when they aknowleged publicly that they were facing big problems with 8cap)

I have an opinion (not proven) that 8cap parametrize several things differently for each prop (probably at their request/contract)

My suspicion is because I have several props with 8cap and have different level of spreads and/or execution in each. I started to suspect about this when I got to funded in FundedNext. They have ALWAYS around 1.2 pip execution slippage in EURUSD even if I use 1 lot in liquid hours. ALWAYS. It's clearly parametrized. Nevertheless they have one of the most tight spreads around.
It's a way of tricking traders that fool themselves looking just at spreads.
  • #15,072
  • Apr 18, 2023 12:46pm Apr 18, 2023 12:46pm
[quote=pipmaster77;14398704]{quote} {image} Looks like they have not updated their FAQs either.[/quote
I was just very recently using their MT5 and it was not 8cap. One negative thing about 5ers is that they don't allow you open any trades from 23:00 to 01:00 so they only operate 22 hrs per day.
  • #15,073
  • Apr 18, 2023 12:47pm Apr 18, 2023 12:47pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} But TPT is also 8cap, although different server (they started using EightcapEU-Live (Demo) about 1 or 2 weeks ago when they aknowleged publicly that they were facing big problems with 8cap) I have an opinion (not proven) that 8cap parametrize several things differently for each prop (probably at their request/contract) My suspicion is because I have several props with 8cap and have different level of spreads and/or execution in each. I started to suspect about this when I got to funded in FundedNext. They have ALWAYS around 1.2 pip execution...
I'm on EightcapLtd Real2 and I have no issues with spreads or slippage, but probably more due to my style of trading.
I 100% agrre that each firm absolutely sets their own parameters for spread markup and slippage.
  • #15,074
  • Apr 18, 2023 12:58pm Apr 18, 2023 12:58pm
Quoting Vitore
{quote} Believe or not, most of my current prop accounts are hosted on 8cap and cannot say a bad word about their spreads, slippage or execution in general. E8 and TFTP are much worse. Even MFF is causing me more troubles (Duplikium connectivity) compared to 8cap.
Ture Eightcap spreads are unbelievably awesome. I trade with my robot and it works fine.
Survival intelligence is more important than entry intelligence
AAMS Trinity Engine Return This Month: -0.6%
  • #15,075
  • Apr 18, 2023 1:02pm Apr 18, 2023 1:02pm
Quoting Vitore
{quote} Though I'm not sure I understand your proposed approach I guess it might actually be quite similar to mine. I use a copier too, because I have to. And in the past I was trading small accounts very aggressively. My idea was to put a small amount on the account which I knew I could lose even several times. Like $100. And I was just trying to get maximum out of that money. Many times I was able to close the day with eg. $300 or $400. Making 100% was sometimes a matter of a few hours or even minutes. Some other day I lost the whole account....
Thank you Vittore!!! You understood me perfectly!
And now I can understand you more because I remember what you said about your trading style!

The unique difference is that I decided to use as master a 400k account (like a 400k royal challange) and the slave prop will copy it with 20 times less leverage.

This because in this bad moment of my life I suffer too much to trade even in demo (the master) with small accounts because I was used to trade in my life always with very big accounts.

So this let me focus more because I see the big account with huge profit and I dont push so much like when i trade directly the small prop account.

To me work much better like this. In fact when I was doing scalping I noticed also that I was able too keep alive more a demo with 100 or 200k then small demos with 1k or 10k. Something psichological and have to do with my personal situacion.

Eightcap changed the rules so they close your demo agter 30 days. Before was unlimited. So I choose vantage to make my first demo aggresive trading to to make a +160/200% return to simulate to pass a phase 1 challenge with 20 times less leverage as slave.

I will try now to open a eightcap demo and try again.
in holiday till end of November
  • #15,076
  • Apr 18, 2023 1:03pm Apr 18, 2023 1:03pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote}But TPT is also 8cap, although different server
Right, you got me

Quoting Capablanca
{quote}It's a way of tricking traders that fool themselves looking just at spreads.
Agreed. But I don't care so much about spread. As I copy to all accounts simultaneously (assuming the copy servise works without issues) I can compare how each account performs in terms of the profit (or loss) made on each particular trade
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #15,077
  • Apr 18, 2023 1:06pm Apr 18, 2023 1:06pm
Quoting Expo33
MyFundedFX is offering a super discount to try and get traders to test them out. Only for 5K accounts running thru April 21st. So for $30, you can test them out. Not a bad idea on their part. {image}
Wow so I will try again today to join them with a 5k, and I will try to copy from a demo as I said my trading.
Eightcap demo, if they are fast to give me it tomorrow because usually I have to send an email.to get one, via dashboard if you ask a demo many times doesnt arrive in email.

With the saving of 15/20$ I will be able to pay 2 month of duplikum that should cost around 15$ if you ask them a discount code. I will ask and report here.
in holiday till end of November
  • #15,078
  • Apr 18, 2023 1:07pm Apr 18, 2023 1:07pm
Quoting forexbali
{quote} Thank you Vittore!!! You understood me perfectly! And now I can understand you more because I remember what you said about your trading style! The unique difference is that I decided to use as master a 400k account (like a 400k royal challange) and the slave prop will copy it with 20 times less leverage. This because in this bad moment of my life I suffer too much to trade even in demo (the master) with small accounts because I was used to trade in my life always with very big accounts. So this let me focus more because I see the big account...
Whatever the particular implementation the point is to "separate" you mentally from the specific amount of money you can win/lose and allow you to focus on the pure performance only. It's mostly about the psychology. Trading a small account of the constant size works well for me, you may find it more suitable for you to trade large account instead. But the principle is the same
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #15,079
  • Apr 18, 2023 1:12pm Apr 18, 2023 1:12pm
Quoting Vitore
{quote} Believe or not, most of my current prop accounts are hosted on 8cap and cannot say a bad word about their spreads, slippage or execution in general. E8 and TFTP are much worse. Even MFF is causing me more troubles (Duplikium connectivity) compared to 8cap.
I love duplikium! And recent dashboard even better!!

Have you tried social trader tools if can solve that issues? I dont like their dashboards, with duplikum you can check very fast open trades and issues or even flat your account.

Quoting Vitore
{quote} Whatever the particular implementation the point is to "separate" you mentally from the specific amount of money you can win/lose and allow you to focus on the pure performance only. It's mostly about the psychology. Trading a small account of the constant size works well for me, you may find it more suitable for you to trade large account instead. But the principle is the same
Exactly! Its psychology and every of us is different. So that was my idea to find some way could help me some how. Sometime I trade as you with smaller trades but sometime I go all in. In my case what I want to separate is the prop account from me.... I dont want to see it or trade it and in this is the same of what you do!

Prop accounts are all slaves, and we trade the master in our own way!
in holiday till end of November
  • #15,080
  • Apr 18, 2023 1:25pm Apr 18, 2023 1:25pm
Quoting forexbali
{quote} I love duplikium! And recent dashboard even better!! Have you tried social trader tools if can solve that issues?
I haven't as my master is cTrader and Duplikium is the only one which supports it

Quoting forexbali
{quote} In my case what I want to separate is the prop account from me.... I dont want to see it or trade it and in this is the same of what you do! Prop accounts are all slaves, and we trade the master in our own way!
Exactly. It works perfect until it doesn't (from time to time - always on Duplikium side or somewhere between them and the prop account). But such is life. Nothing is perfect. But overall it works fabulous. I make $100 on my account in peace and collect $10,000 from the prop firms (example of course, but I hope to get there one day)
Money is made by sitting, not trading
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