The Concept of 3D Charting.

i've read a couple posts about tic charts on this thread.
tic charts take into consideration price/time/and kind of rate of ascension. you would have to dissect the true rate of ascension by judging tic height. i believe a 3 dimensional chart showing this data would be superior. i believe a coder could create an overlay on the candle chart to show more candles or thicker candles when price is ascending faster.

if you simply want a tic chart that you can change from 1-1000 tics per candle you can look into topgun software. i've used it. when you look at a tic chart which 23 and 144 are very common you see a smooth flow of price vs the time compressions we see on MT4. the benefits are that you see more market sentiment. you can see the big green candles that you would not see on a 5min compression. this shows very clearly that banks are buying. this is why i want to include rate of ascension in the 3d charting. if there is a coder here that is willing to extract rate of ascension from the tick chart on MT4 and create an overlay on the candle chart to show 3 dimensionally wider candles based on ascension i'll pay for it. this data would be great to have and to see true sentiment.

I have been thinking about 3D charting and so on also a few weeks now.
Something came to me that I want to share and see if someone understands and maybe can use it for market prediction.

Let's say time doesn't exist. It's only an illusion we created to categorise and organize our lifes and the world.
We use it to know when to stand up and go to work and so on.
But in reality time is not real. Let's say the universe always has the same time. Now. The present.
The universe changes, it expands, stars are born and diminish.
Once it was apparently created by the Big Bang.
When we wake up we can see the sun come up and go down it gets dark and we go to sleep again. So we say time is going by. A new day has come. We are older.
But in reality it isn't this mysterious time thats doing it, but processes that are all around us.
When we are born, we are small and as time goes by (the preocesses in us and around us) we get food and the cells divide and we get bigger and later the processes in our cells and the cells themselves stop or are changed because of other processes such as Oxidation.
But it's not time that's doing it but processes that correlate with each other under certain laws.
Let's say the law of our cell says it can withstand a certain amount of negative factors and then there is lets say Oxygen that has its own law that reacts with the cell and it's material and so on.
So the further we expand in time (the processes that build up on each other and that progress) certain changes happen.
Look at our lifes. It's all based on succeeding cycles that are interweaved and have a predictable outcome if all information of all processes were known and could get taken in account.
Or maybe you could say everything is based on action and reaction which are driven by laws or rules.

So you have to see the market action as timeless, but driven by demand or supply at the present sequence and because of sequences that lead to present price.
As not all sequences are known to us it is impossible for us to predict future movement.
We could only try to examine the past and split it up and look at certain behaviours and find rules we think we can follow.

Something like: If price gets more demand or supply at stage x of the process the probability it's going to get more demand or supply is X %.

But like I said you can not always have enough information for liable prediction. You would have to have to look in the monds of other people and the order books and whatever.

The stuff THE Fxorce said about the wider candles would be a good start I think.

Hey, how about a charting system that has price displayed like a toilet paper roll, that gets more papers or some taken away, but how yould you draw trendlines and things like that?

Very interesting mindset.

Time is but a pica second long.
Now I find myself re-organizing some of my thought proccesses.

Kurt! brilliant post! you as absolutely right in the conspet of time. but as talking time its conspet how we can explane this pheonom happening. what propubly everyting how we explane things. in words,language. is to explane someting to another. it dosent need to be TRU but its the way how humans can understand and analyse the outcome of happening around us.

and this is "tru" its only tru as we understand it. and this question why humans analyse the information around us thisway is the big ?

offcourse this is the point here to make "money" in this "game". but to understand why humans handel this reality in small fragments/sequnses of "time"!
WHY? question is the reason why we exists. sometinhg what "evolution" gave us and made to survive.

[sorry from english. drunk and exited to explane too mutch for my proper language skills!]

Hey Mother,
It's Friday night and we just survived another week. Fastest way I know to erase FX from my mindset is a couple o' shots of Glenfid... and then I am 100% theirs.[my family, that is]
and.. btw...
I really like your view of things.

When I look at history or daily live with this view, I get the feeling that somehow everything is speeding up.
More and more money, more and more changes in culture in smaller intervals of the categorisation tool "time".

Maybe the increasing interconnection of people is somehow behind this.

And the increasing number of people.
Or maybe the money.

this is strange question what is reflefted on reality indeed!
As saying word "next genearion" they just seem to over come everyting what is complised. every year there is new world recond in olympic games. perfect example in mathematic terms is potens X 2. i dont know is this right english way to say its. but the "curve" what starts from horisontal and turns to up vertical

same way the "faster" it gets more vertical it gets.

{Beam me up scotty!}

keep it up! family is happyness and personal respect till the end!

and will overfrag every question around us.

Hi Bemac, here's my view of market in 3d. Adapted the concept from Hawking's stuff.

Imagine what if every fundamental aspect that come into play will create a ripple in future event cone. There must be a point of conflict where the newest event collide with ripple from the past. I would assume this area of conflict is the price that will be traded with the noticeable volume over time. Offcourse we cant predict the future area of conflict, but at least we can use few of the most recent area of conflict as guidance.

The second dimension is crowd psychology state. I don't know how to measure this state of hesitation, greed and fear. Maybe we can see it by increasing / diminishing volume on a certain direction trade?

Time dimension come into play in a trend development. If, over time, all the factor that come into play is supporting a trend, we might see a runaway market.

kurti and mother are having a nice chat about time existence and our perception and i agree with most of that. time is a value like light or air i suppose. it can be manipulated. we can't do it yet but soon we will. also living in the NOW is true enlightenment.
regarding candles...we can eliminate time influence through candles by plotting tic charts like a member suggested earlier. we don't need synthetic time compressions.
the only problem i see is to objectively see price move and profit from it we need to see time. we need to compare time vs price change to know how fast price is moving up or down or not moving to know when and where to get in.

This conversation, while extremely engaging, continues to elude the initial question of what should be considered the third dimension. My problem with having volume, even if it were readily available is that we all know on an intraday basis as well as a daily basis which days, hours, etc are going to be high volume/high volatility alot of the time and i dont think that this information charted on 3D would add any more value to our perspectives.

Chart formations formed during high volume periods(which can be assumed) are higher probability patterns because their underlying measure is crowd psychology and the population that they measure satisfys the guiding principles that make them valid. This information would not be very helpful on a 3d chart, in my humble opinion, because it would only add more clutter to the screen when in fact, we already know volume and volatility will rise during NFP for example.

The real question is what are we trying to get out of a 3d chart and then what would serve that purpose.

Picking a third dimension that is already an available indicator on any charting package is simply that; using another indicator and just finding a new way of looking at it, i dont know if that would really help. Is playing chess simplified by playing on a 3d board vs playing online on a flat screen? The moves and combinations are the same. Value is added in the moves themselves that attempt at luring your opponent into a combination that yields you as the victor.

I once played a grand master chess player and he gave me some extreme and simple words of wisdom that i have always followed in most everything i do and especially in trading. The words were - "stop trying to win and go for the tie." These words have so much depth to them because the impatience that drives our competitive nature begins to dissipate and we look to the fundamental moves waiting for our opponents to make the first mistake. It is this patience to just avoid risk at all costs and then recognize and react to the opportunities as they are handed to us that yields victory.

How does this relate to the third dimension and how this third dimension will add value to your trading - the third dimension is us. we are people, three dimensional(some say more), with varying interperetations of what is truly unfolding. Our scope of vision is limited, but there are more senses involved in trading than just vision. We cannot possibly predict with above average accuracy what anyone else will do at any one time, yet our focus is always on what the market will do. Can you predict what you will do? Do you have all of the scenarios mapped out and how you will react to each of them?

Trading and chess are very similar. Can you compete with a grandmaster chess player in a 1 minute game of speed chess. If so, it is because you have mastered the fundamentals of the opening middle and end game and can react instantly to any and all combinations of moves, and you know how to tie the game. If daytrading, the same thing goes - you must be very in tune with the fundamentals of recognizing and reacting instantly.

The beauty of trading is that you dont have to be a grandmaster. There are cheat sheets. You can trade longer term. But the point is that you need to know yourself(the third dimension and how you will react). You need to know when to take a pawn and when it is time to go for the queen. Many a game is lost due to overly agressive play(not relying on skillfull combinations, rather relying on a hope that your opponent doesn't see it or will mess up). This is no way to play chess successfully, trade successfully or for that matter compete in any thing successfully). Then their is that 1% of us that is just creatively, intuitively, naturally genius. That is not me - i need to work for it - 3d charting may make you money, but more likely it will do so if you are the one selling it. Just an opinion

leugimp, i think we just need to answer the basic interrogatives concerning a deal and thats what could conceivably be on a chart. what, where, when, how many, etc. as i posted earlier in a sample chart, for me the basic 3rd dimension is market depth, which would show the shadowy netherworld of orders and stops and such surrounding the current price.

price candles = what deals are made
depth of market = where deals could be made
volume = how many deals have been made
time = when are deals made

who = dont imagine we really want to know who the counterparty is, now do we lol.

i like the chess analogy. one time me and two friends spent the day playing games of three way chess over beer (so every other move you were on the opposing side). talk about playing not to lose.
in trading, there is one counterparty to your deal, but to reach that conclusion there were other parties making deals.

speak for yourself. ever had a trade countered by henry carol . lol

Thanks for the post! great points.!

personaly i try to still find correct way to look as in process of studying. what will get all nesessary information out of it.

but as i think you know if like chess. its not only the "rules".
Need to be cleaver and good observation to find the weak point. and to use others idea in advandage. offcourse lot of this is tricks what can try, other to get there. but then it comes to final point what seperates masters from grand masters. as all information is available in both sides, but how to use it?

aka. chess. to know all the tricks what can occure.
Possibility to observe all thos moves, not to miss eanythings over the board.
to be "smart" or "cleaver" what is something what is totaly random.
as that random outcome is something what can not be created it just occures.

all the information can be learned, eyes can be practised to see all. but what is this 3th point what can not be controlled. as it seperates Masters from grand-masters.

as now talking 3 things. this is not the perspective in this post. in world just everyting seems happen in 3 stages as we observe it. Good,Bad,Ugly(nomad).

"But in reality time is not real." Kurti

Time is real and observable and has been manipulated and will continue to be, by what I hear you cry! Gather round children, are we all sitting comfortably, then I'll begin:

Gravity!

The End

you dont know how tricky they will be .) "next generation". mother is nothing to do nothing.

"Mother is that you?" (Norman Bates) Psycho.

I've been reading this thread and my brain hurts now, lol...

however; what about the theory that gravity is only weaker than light or time because it is "leaking" from surrounding parallel universes into ours. We then only feel a minor effect of it's actual power or strength. Making the gravity in our universe just a trace, so the original source, in other parallel universes, would control/over-power both time and light? So it is theorized. You could show how gravity affects time by measuring a currency's strength relative to the light/code of any given indicator displayed on a chart. Sort of a filter of true strength..? Hmm, that might create unwanted black holes though... never mind...

Ok, I'll be quiet and just "gather around", lol...

Gravity does indeed bend light. Physiciststs use gravitational lensing techniques to study distant objects. Also gravity affects the real passage of time. We dont notice it because time dilates in relation to some rearranged version of E=MC2, and as C2 (speed of light squared) is so huge, the effect is damn small.

Yes, but does gravity affect "compound interest"..? Now there's a question... lol...