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Sorry. But you all need it.

  • #21
  • Edited 1:30pm Nov 21, 2006 1:16pm | Edited 1:30pm
hey twinchell, I will try and explain this. I have taken a course in forex and have been trying to educate myself by constantly reading etc.. For me, stupidity would be placing trades without any kind of analysis. When I place trades, I try and do some analysis, but it ends up to be wrong most of the time. For example, I trade on what I think is a downtrend when in actuality, it is a retracement in a larger uptrend. This has been giving me some trouble and I am trying to formulate a strategy to try and avoid getting stopped out for huge losses.

Dial, I fully understand what you mean. People just rushing into this forex thing without fully educating and empowering themselves on the pitfalls. The way how people teach the forex can be very attractive. Thats what pulls new ppl in the markets. In reality, thats now how it goes. I am glad that after I finished my forex course, that I went out there to see what else existed, a second or third opinion if you will. I don't like people telling me I should buy here or sell there without explaining why (not to say that the course was doing that). I took time off after the course to immerse myself in something else other than the course's point of view and try and study on my own how the forex works (really glad I found forex factory can I tell you ).

Jumping into the deep end of forex has really opened my eyes. I didn't think it would be a bed of roses but boy is it difficult. It is very difficult coping with losing all the time as well. I dont mind the losing, but consistent losing at times really gets the better of me. I persevere because one day I know that I will get it. People who refure to learn the basics as you say and continually lose their money indeed lose it to stupidity.
  • #22
  • Nov 21, 2006 1:32pm Nov 21, 2006 1:32pm
guys, you might want to check out this thread:

http://www.forexfactory.com/forexfor...ghlight=losing

i think i stood in a lone crowd against the perceived wisdom...
  • #23
  • Nov 21, 2006 1:44pm Nov 21, 2006 1:44pm
im not one to go along with the trading cliches (ie trend is your freind bs). but this one i think is true. i think you gotta lose to win. its very hard, almost impossible, to have a good respect for risk unless you have experienced loss. and respect for risk is essential to trading success. maybe not in the short term, but in the long term i believe this is true.
Relax and be happy.
  • #24
  • Nov 21, 2006 1:54pm Nov 21, 2006 1:54pm
Quoting merlin
...its very hard, almost impossible, to have a good respect for risk unless you have experienced loss.
Exactly what I was trying to say. This is why I think micro lots are no better than demo trading. When a demo trader says "screw it its just a demo account", it's really the same thing as the micro lot trader who says "screw it its just ten cents a pip". Maybe there are a few traders that can learn without taking a loss, but that number is not very high. If you're one of them, congratulations.

And I say this knowing Dial will tear it up. :
  • #25
  • Nov 21, 2006 2:26pm Nov 21, 2006 2:26pm
Quoting twinchell
Exactly what I was trying to say. This is why I think micro lots are no better than demo trading. When a demo trader says "screw it its just a demo account", it's really the same thing as the micro lot trader who says "screw it its just ten cents a pip". Maybe there are a few traders that can learn without taking a loss, but that number is not very high. If you're one of them, congratulations.

And I say this knowing Dial will tear it up. :
I don't disagree.

In fact, I do agree with both you and merlin. Getting my ass handed to me by the market is what turned me around. No pain, no gain. But the intensity of pain required to stimulate growth can be regulated. A child only has touch a hot stove once to learn not to touch it again. It isn't necessary for the child to be broiled in the oven for three hours!

Likewise a micro account can be used to transition between trading demo and trading with a full position. That is why in several other posts I advocate starting with a single micro lot and moving up gradually. Turning up the heat as it were. I suppose what I should have emphasized in those posts and didn't was that the new trader should keep bumping up his position size just until pain of losing was felt. At that point, learning would begin. I should have also emphasized to keep the heat on as one grows by always trading the next larger size outside your comfort zone.

Using micro lots allows learning to take place, but without placing the trader (and his account) in the broiler for three hours.

Dial
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  • #26
  • Nov 21, 2006 2:38pm Nov 21, 2006 2:38pm
Quoting vder
I persevere because one day I know that I will get it.
vder,

Your entire post was excellent, but I quote only the one sentence from it because what you said there will be the key to your ultimate success. You persevere because you KNOW that you WILL get it.

My unwavering belief that a could become a consistent trader was the one, key thing that got me through the times of doubt and despair. When I would catch myself saying things like "I'll never learn this", or "I just don't have the talent for this", I would only wallow in my self-pity briefly before reminding myself that my conviction that I would succeed was far more powerful and important than the emotions I was feeling at the time. I would remind myself that the emotions would fade, but my conviction would remain. And it did, and it does.

You're gonna do OK vder!

Dial
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  • #27
  • Nov 21, 2006 4:36pm Nov 21, 2006 4:36pm
hey diallist...thank you so much for the kinds words. It means a lot to me that someone else has been there and knows what it is like. Its funny, when I started learning the forex, it is just something that seemed to fit. I truly enjoy trading the forex but as you say it does come with its thorns.

I have a very supportive group also helping me out here so with that I have been fortunate. There are times I say that I will never get this and start to wallow, but I just say to myself this is a learning experience and you will be the better for it. Like what thomas edison I believe said when asked about the light bulb. I believe it was something to the effect that he didn't fail 5,000 or so times, but he found 5,000 ways that the light bulb wouldn't work.

I truly appreciate this forum and all the people who come here and share knowledge and inspire new people like myself. I cannot praise this site and its participants enough. take care all and happy trading!
  • #28
  • Nov 21, 2006 6:10pm Nov 21, 2006 6:10pm
Quoting vder
hey bemac, I understand fully what you are saying, but unfortunately, figuring out when the market goes up or when it goes down or when it waffles is the main obstacle and causes losses in money for me at least. I know that the market only moves in 3 directions but I can't figure out when it wants to do what which is why I am losing in my demo account. I admit that you don't necessarily have to blow an account because there might be some very talented people out there, but from what I read, the majority will blow account after account until they get it. I dont think they are mutually exclusive. The understanding for me will come from failure after failure and learning from those failures.
Bingo!

There is another wide-spread cliche about losses that goes something like this:

you must accept losses and move on without trying to understand everytime why you just lost.

There even are some who claim that reviewing your losers only brings back bad memories that have a negative impact on your confidence.

I dont agree with that at all.

I strongly believe that you always must review your trades, regardless of whether they are losers or winners. There is always stuff to learn when reviewing both losers and winners.

Of course, there are times when you review a loser and you cant figure out what went wrong...at that point, i'll just move on...or perhaps, you only figure out you have been victim of stop hunting, so you'll just take the loss and move on...but you have to spend time reviewing why you lost or won.
  • #29
  • Nov 21, 2006 6:19pm Nov 21, 2006 6:19pm
Interesting views on whether one should "lose" an account in order to gain experience.

I found a trading partner when I first started to demo forex. He had a little money to start live while I did not. I found that his experiences helped me temper my trading style.

He and I are now managing a $600k account which is trading with an EA. This is my first experience at trading live. He validates my ideas and I validate his. We very much work together to achieve a common goal, pips and profit.

We currently are achieving 5% a week, though this week will be lower due to the holidays. There is no way this account will ever be "blown"... Due diligence, demo'ing and good money management will persevere for absolutely anyone.

My best advise for anyone starting out, get into the forums, start practicing demo accounts, learn to program your own scripts, and GET A TRADING PARTNER!!!

Just my 2 pips worth...

Don
  • #30
  • Nov 21, 2006 6:34pm Nov 21, 2006 6:34pm
Quoting don_forex
Interesting views on whether one should "lose" an account in order to gain experience.

I found a trading partner when I first started to demo forex. He had a little money to start live while I did not. I found that his experiences helped me temper my trading style.

He and I are now managing a $600k account which is trading with an EA. This is my first experience at trading live. He validates my ideas and I validate his. We very much work together to achieve a common goal, pips and profit.

We currently are achieving 5% a week, though this week will be lower due to the holidays. There is no way this account will ever be "blown"... Due diligence, demo'ing and good money management will persevere for absolutely anyone.

My best advise for anyone starting out, get into the forums, start practicing demo accounts, learn to program your own scripts, and GET A TRADING PARTNER!!!

Just my 2 pips worth...

Don
how long have you been trading forex?
  • #31
  • Nov 21, 2006 6:46pm Nov 21, 2006 6:46pm
Quoting don_forex
There is no way this account will ever be "blown"... Due diligence, demo'ing and good money management will persevere for absolutely anyone.
I don't mean to be discouraging, but don't count on anything to be impossible to happen in this world, anything can happen...When your mindset is focused that anything in the world can happen, you will never say this statement once again, "There is no way this account will ever be blown", cause the best traders in the world blow off, not to mention computer systems or mechanical based advisors...

Don't get me wrong, I am just trying to tell you that markets, all markets, keep changing & that successful traders keep changing with them so avoid losses & to achieve gains....Once a trader is strict & fully believes in his strategy & capabilities, explosion is underway...

All the best for you & your partner...


Thanks,

Nader
  • #32
  • Nov 21, 2006 6:50pm Nov 21, 2006 6:50pm
I have been demo'ing for a year and a half. Our live account has been going on since Nov. 5th. In thirteen days of trading we have accumulated $80.5k... My partner has been trading live for a year while I have only two weeks under my belt.

It has taken, both my partner and I, several different systems and MANY, MANY hours collaborating and programming our scripts. Neither he or I could have achieved results of this magnitude by ourselves. Teamwork is what caused this to become successful.

Quoting aicccia
how long have you been trading forex?
  • #33
  • Nov 21, 2006 6:52pm Nov 21, 2006 6:52pm
Quoting merlin
im not one to go along with the trading cliches (ie trend is your freind bs). but this one i think is true. i think you gotta lose to win. its very hard, almost impossible, to have a good respect for risk unless you have experienced loss. and respect for risk is essential to trading success. maybe not in the short term, but in the long term i believe this is true.
I fully agree with you Merlin...In order to win, you must taste losses, in order to avoid car accidents, you must make at least 1 accident in your driving life, in order to be able to escape a fire, you must get burned once before...I believe that nobody in this world will be able to get the feeling of anything unless he/she experiences the exact opposite...Success is born from failure, this is true...I also believe that to be a successful trader, one must accept himself as a consistent loser, only this way he can always challenge the losing perception & don't get down by every losing trade....If I accept myself as a losing trader, I won't be sad if I got 10 losses in a row, why in the first place, I am a losing trader anyway, but when my winning trade comes & wipes around all the previous losses & creates profits, I will assume it was luck & that I need to enhance my trading further to remove the luck factor as much as possible....

By the way, I am talking about a personal experience


Thanks,

Nader
  • #34
  • Nov 21, 2006 6:56pm Nov 21, 2006 6:56pm
To really live must you first really die?
  • #35
  • Nov 21, 2006 8:27pm Nov 21, 2006 8:27pm
Quoting Playing4Pips
To really live must you first really die?
Yes!!


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  • #36
  • Nov 21, 2006 9:10pm Nov 21, 2006 9:10pm
So..o..o Diall, Is that a Grail I see in your hand or are you just haffy 2 c mee.

Nuggets to all
  • #37
  • Nov 21, 2006 11:11pm Nov 21, 2006 11:11pm
I spent a lot of money at Forex's online campus, HKU (Hard Knocks Univ.) before I started to get consistent...
Mr. Trend
  • #38
  • Nov 22, 2006 12:42am Nov 22, 2006 12:42am
Everyone learns in different ways...what might work for you will not work for me...same with trading styles. Many are comfortable with price action, others are confident to trade mechanical signals but at then end of the day what will get you to that place of consistent profitable trading is determination.
You need determination to learn discipline, patience and emotional control and with all of this you will gain the confidence to keep going.
Some learn quicker than others but it is still a long and hard journey.

I have my trading buddies to thank for where I am today. They are there to listen to me whinge, to make me accountable for mistakes I make ( which I hopefully learn from) and to help me back on the path of consistency, discipline and patience as well as offer advice and help. Just recently Rob Booker stressed how important a trading buddy is and it made me realise just what great significance this has had on my trading.
On the other hand having a trading buddy is not everyone's cup of tea.
We are all differnent!

Cheers

Antra
  • #39
  • Nov 22, 2006 1:05am Nov 22, 2006 1:05am
Quoting Antra
Everyone learns in different ways...what might work for you will not work for me...same with trading styles. Many are comfortable with price action, others are confident to trade mechanical signals but at then end of the day what will get you to that place of consistent profitable trading is determination.
You need determination to learn discipline, patience and emotional control and with all of this you will gain the confidence to keep going.
Some learn quicker than others but it is still a long and hard journey.

I have my trading buddies to thank for where I am today. They are there to listen to me whinge, to make me accountable for mistakes I make ( which I hopefully learn from) and to help me back on the path of consistency, discipline and patience as well as offer advice and help. Just recently Rob Booker stressed how important a trading buddy is and it made me realise just what great significance this has had on my trading.
On the other hand having a trading buddy is not everyone's cup of tea.
We are all differnent!

Cheers

Antra
Antra has been one of my "buddies" for a long time. I know her background and experience. She knows what she's talking about, so when Antra speaks.....LISTEN!
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  • #40
  • Nov 22, 2006 1:15am Nov 22, 2006 1:15am
Quoting Playing4Pips
To really live must you first really die?
This is a little bit philosophical, but actually we all died before we actually lived...We all were born from death, from noweher, noexistence & we are not going to die once again, we are just going to have a little sleep till the judgement day & then nobody dies...


Thanks,

Nader
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