Volman meets Burke or My journey with PA | Page 89 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Volman Style (70-tick chart) 751 replies

Understanding Price Action by Bob Volman (notes and examples) 99 replies

The Dissent Channel: Volman Price Action 33 replies

Bob Volman & TMT System 16 replies

pls share your journey 10 replies

Attachments: Volman meets Burke or My journey with PA
Exit Attachments

Volman meets Burke or My journey with PA

  • #1,761
  • Mar 9, 2023 1:39pm Mar 9, 2023 1:39pm
Quoting Lou
{quote} I really like the Slide Show feature he incorporates in most of his videos. Before starting the video look in the area below the video and just above the list of Comments by posters. Open ... Show More ... and if there is a slide show, the slides will appear that are pictures of important aspects of the video. The link looks like this: FREE SlideShow from this video so that you can follow along or reference later! https://docs.google.com/presentation/......
Those links can be found at the post I linked to or in the video description. Really good info. Could this info be classed "Gamechanger" ...
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #1,762
  • Mar 9, 2023 2:10pm Mar 9, 2023 2:10pm
Quoting spzd
Yes, sometimes there are flare-ups in temper and the responses are seldom good. When you are on a general discussion thread or anyone else's thread for that matter, do not take the attitude that there is only one way to do something and it is yours and all others are foolish to do anything else. That attitude is for your own thread. Start your own thread and what you say is gospel. I think this is pet peeve # 28 or something like that ...
Hi Mark, allow me to explain myself, my side of the story.

This is my position on certain important trading issues,

1. I believe a good trading strategy is one that has a clear objectively quantified trading edge.
2. Among the thousands of strategies on FF strategy section, YouTube videos, and books, it's my opinion NONE of these strategies has an edge.
3. I don't believe all strategies work, this is typical nonsensical retail traders talk.
4. Even among strategies that offer an edge, I don't agree they are all the same. Another, nonsense talk.
5. To ME, there are very, very few trading strategies that give solid trading edge to the trader.
6. This is important, we are now in 2023.
Most of the strategy offerings are outdated, backward in dinosaur time. I am a, forward looking researcher, who take advantage of modern technology, work with big data.
7. What I consider as up to date technology strategy is Ryan's thread here together with Rick. Don't get me wrong. I have no idea what they do, but I recognise the technology they use and the scientific approach they apply. This is an example of original content.
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...7#post14353327
8. Most retail traders COPY from somewhere, someone. There's ZERO original content. The basis is not even scientific. Not even objectively quantified.
9. I will NEVER trade traditional technical analysis methods. Read my history post what I wrote. This is 2023, may I remind everyone.
10.I will NEVER accept all strategies lead to Rome. That's utter nonsense. 99.9999% strategies lead into the trash bin.
11. To ME, trading is in an exciting time where there's a race going on, with all the PhD quant traders leading in front. Best opportunity for researchers in the retail segment to take a big data approach to trading Forex.

Here's the thing. Ofc, majority of retail traders copy from someone else. There's no original technical content. I know that. This is where 99.999% of you are. You have no idea what original content from big data look like.

Do I blame you?
Ofc course not.

What I do on Andy's thread are these 2 things,
1. Introduce this concept that history and current data can be used to extrapolate future events.
2. This idea of h4 intent to target intraday trading. GEfx is the practising trader of such strategy.
3. I posted plenty of live market calls to demonstrate.
4. I tried, which in hindsight I shouldn't, to change the mindset of the crowd. My message is plain and simple.

Traditional technical analysis is useless. It's dumb trading.

You can disagree with me, no issues. Make sure you have clear basis why you disagree for your own sake.

At the same time, you have to make space to accept that researchers like me, are entitled to our opinion. Entitled to express them on FF, especially in a discussion thread.

Mark, I meant no offence with this post. I felt its important I write this post for you to better understand me. Why I wrote what I wrote.

Ofc I don't expect you to agree. But I lay it out on your thread to clarify my position and point of view, which is different.

If you decide this post is not appropriate, let me know, I'll delete it.

Thank you for reading.

Cheers
BWilliam
Know what you trade
  • #1,763
  • Mar 9, 2023 2:46pm Mar 9, 2023 2:46pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Hi Mark, allow me to explain myself, my side of the story. This is my position on certain important trading issues, 1. I believe a good trading strategy is one that has a clear objectively quantified trading edge. 2. Among the thousands of strategies on FF strategy section, YouTube videos, and books, it's my opinion NONE of these strategies has an edge. 3. I don't believe all strategies work, this is typical nonsensical retail traders talk. 4. Even among strategies that offer an edge, I don't agree they are all the same. Another, nonsense...
Hey Jason,

Thanks a lot for this. I agree with many things here. Your explanation of what you see and are looking for are clear. Thanks again for that.

I take no offence at you posting here. And to be completely honest I know how you feel about traders as a whole. I sat here Tuesday reading people buying all day when the market was down. My thoughts about what they were doing are best left as thoughts.

What I do may be listed in your no edge group and that is OK. I can clearly see your standards for edge are quite high.

It is not that I disagree with a lot of what you do because aspects I fully agree with. Perhaps it is how I perceived the message. And I think that was part of it.

I am good. You may post here any time. My only caveat and this is for everyone don't say what I do is wrong. When I find wrong I admit it.
I was wrong to get involved in an internet spat as it does nothing for any party involved.

Take care
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #1,764
  • Mar 9, 2023 6:12pm Mar 9, 2023 6:12pm
My reply to bluesteele that's related to his reply to my infamous post.
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...1#post14351721

1. How do we know how high this pump ?
A: We never know for sure...Thats trading

This is response falls under the category, discretionary guessing and hoping.

Not a well research objectively quantified answer.

2. How do you know there's a dump coming in the future? A reversal is a pump with no dump. How can you tell the difference?
A: Because that is how the market works BW..

This is again falls under discretionary guessing and hoping.

The typical answer is nobody know.

It's OK to say I don't know.

But it's not OK to say nobody know.

Amidst your declaration of your opinion, your insecurity made an extended assumption at the same time.

I can accept your first declaration about yourself.

But I can't accept the extended assumption you made upon the entire trading world.

It's clear you have conceded that you will never know.
It's not possible for you. That's why you respond to my questions as unimportant. What's worse is you bulldoze your opinion unto others.

This is where big data research scientist go to work to determine the facts. Read my posts, I expressed clearly where I stand on this matter.

And the reason why I asked Turnip these questions. To highlight the shortfall of existing technical analysis that 99.999% of traders use as trading tool.

Hi Mark, I have been banned to post on Andy's thread.

I hope you don't mind I post a reply to bluesteele post which is about a trading matter. I address this specific trading matter ONLY.

If you feel this post is not appropriate, pls let me know. Thank you

Cheers
BWilliam
Know what you trade
  • #1,765
  • Mar 9, 2023 6:47pm Mar 9, 2023 6:47pm
Quoting BWilliam
My reply to bluesteele that's related to his reply to my infamous post. https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...1#post14351721 1. How do we know how high this pump ? A: We never know for sure...Thats trading This is response falls under the category, discretionary guessing and hoping. Not a well research objectively quantified answer. 2. How do you know there's a dump coming in the future? A reversal is a pump with no dump. How can you tell the difference? A: Because that is how the market works BW.. This is again falls...
Hey Jason,

Give me a few for a response. Don't change anything please.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #1,766
  • Mar 9, 2023 7:21pm Mar 9, 2023 7:21pm
Quoting BWilliam
My reply to bluesteele that's related to his reply to my infamous post. https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...1#post14351721 1. How do we know how high this pump ? A: We never know for sure...Thats trading This is response falls under the category, discretionary guessing and hoping. Not a well research objectively quantified answer. 2. How do you know there's a dump coming in the future? A reversal is a pump with no dump. How can you tell the difference? A: Because that is how the market works BW.. This is again falls...
I am going to say this up front so we know where I stand and what I expect. And this is for everyone:
I will not allow my house or myself be used for a proxy fight. If anybody, for whatever reason, wants a cage fight, I'm sure we could arrnge something in the members lounge.

With that out of the way, I will answer some of your post from my perspective. I can not speak for Kev or Pete or Turnip (no clue his name[shifty character he is at times ]).

The response "we never know for sure that's trading" is what I would answer. I was never good at prognostication and I utterly fail at target point of any precision. I do not think one can say absolutely, without a doubt something will happen. However, one can use probabilities for direction and success and without a doubt, there are some who can pinpoint price almost to the pip. I am forever envious of them as they have a talent I can not wrap my head around.

And that is the main point for many things, can someone comprehend what info is being advanced. Many times we can not.

Who/whatever moves price (for the umpteenth time it is NOT simply more buyers than sellers or vice versa) does it in general repeatable patterns and that is what most of trade in various styles, some more productive than others.

One thing, one persons form of research is not the same as another's. So your research may be much deeper than any of our research and that could lead to different points of view of the market. I think most us use math in a passive way as opposed to quants who use math very proactively.

Debate is openly welcome.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #1,767
  • Mar 9, 2023 7:33pm Mar 9, 2023 7:33pm
Quoting spzd
The response "we never know for sure that's trading" is what I would answer. I was never good at prognostication and I utterly fail at target point of any precision. I do not think one can say absolutely, without a doubt something will happen. However, one can use probabilities for direction and success and without a doubt, there are some who can pinpoint price almost to the pip. I am forever envious of them as they have a talent I can not wrap my head around. And that is the main point for many things.
Hi Mark, pls no forum politics from me. I'm only interested in technical aspect of trading.

Most traders have no clue. That's why I try to highlight.

Traders are broadly categorised into trend following and contrarian.

If the trader says I don't know. Then what basis does this trader use to reverse a pump?

You may not know it to the exact pip, which is not necessary. But surely as a contrarian trader aiming to reverse the pump, you must know, with certain degree of reliability.

Therefore, my question, which I asked umpteenth time is what do you have in your toolbox that answer the original questions.

I was trying to draw awareness to this real market action that we trade everyday. I hope you see the point of my original questions posed. Cheers

One more thing, I don't agree "we can never know for sure". It's upon me as a trader, to expand my knowledge, attempt to reduce the things I don't know to the minimum. I will never accept the attitude that it's beyond me without my best efforts trying. That's what progress is about. To me. This explains why I spent 8 years in dedicated research work.

To me, FF is an opportunity platform to meet fellow traders to discuss difficult technical topics of trading. Instead of engage in useless forum politics. Cheers
Know what you trade
  • #1,768
  • Mar 9, 2023 7:47pm Mar 9, 2023 7:47pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Hi Mark, pls no forum politics from me. I'm only interested in technical aspect of trading. Most traders have no clue. That's why I try to highlight. Traders are broadly categorised into trend following and contrarian. If the trader says I don't know. Then what basis does this trader use to reverse a pump? You may not know it to the exact pip, which is not necessary. But surely as a contrarian trader aiming to reverse the pump, you must know, with certain degree of reliability. Therefore, my question, which I asked umpteenth time is what...
Actually there are a lot of different points here.

If I am not mistaken the original question is "How high [or low - added by me] will price go". To me that boils down to "what will be the high/low price".

My answer "I don't know". That is not in my toolbox. Does that mean I don't have an "edge"? I don't think so. But to properly answer that we need to define what edge is. I think we would also need to look at defining or perhaps better breaking it into categories and that is "technical" analysis.

Your statement about how most traders fall into the (vague yet accurate trend/counter-trend) two categories. You can easily see that by just refreshing the post feed and see what their entries are. Most seem pretty random to me.

So, I think we have a good start point.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #1,769
  • Mar 9, 2023 7:56pm Mar 9, 2023 7:56pm
Quoting spzd
My answer "I don't know". That is not in my toolbox.
Hi Mark, if you think GU may fall in the future, don't you think you need to know the high point?

The more important question is, do you think it's possible to know?

What does it make if you sold GU which you think may fall somewhere in the future, but you don't know the high point, and you have nothing in your toolbox to tell you.

Mark, I am not criticising what you do. I am sharing with you my perspective what I think, no criticism intended. My purpose is to make people think through thoroughly from a different point of view.
Cheers
Know what you trade
  • #1,770
  • Mar 9, 2023 8:10pm Mar 9, 2023 8:10pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Hi Mark, if you think GU may fall in the future, don't you think you need to know the high point? The more important question is, do you think it's possible to know? What does it make if you sold GU which may fall somewhere in the future, but you don't know the high point, and you have nothing in your toolbox to tell you. Mark, I am not criticising what you do. I am sharing with you my perspective what I think, no criticism intended. My purpose is to make people think through thoroughly from a different point of view. Cheers
Don't worry about that. I am actually thick skinned. These are legit Qs

My whole method is based around highs and lows for the most part (or I should say for the best entries). Granted I do not know what price will go to. I do, however, have past history ie yesterday's high or last week's high or last month's high (that is as far as I take it). I also have a good grasp of market structure and am gaining a good grasp of the Burke style. So I use those along with price action and/or my moving averages to get in a trade if it sets up during my trading window.

That is a very important aspect for manual traders and that is your trading window. My windows are determined by my physiology (sleep, food, all that) and my observational studies of the best, more precise times when I consider the market to move in a manner sufficient for me.

That brings us to the discussion of trade size in respect to how many pips or points one gets, not how large a trade by lots or contracts (see words and their use is important). That varies from person to person and is mostly driven by their psychology and for me adverse risk tolerance- or I don't like big stops and I can't relax when I have a trade on, so I tend to be a shorter term trader.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #1,771
  • Mar 9, 2023 9:13pm Mar 9, 2023 9:13pm
Someone responded back awhile about me reinventing the wheel and the reference was something along the lines of it was unnecessary. When you are putting something together, to ensure it fits properly you at times will make your own parts or at least refinish some you have. For me to properly fit everything as I see fit I need to do a lot from scratch. So far it has been very beneficial to me to do it this way and I see no reason to change now.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #1,772
  • Mar 9, 2023 9:20pm Mar 9, 2023 9:20pm
Quoting spzd
Someone responded back awhile about me reinventing the wheel and the reference was something along the lines of it was unnecessary. When you are putting something together, to ensure it fits properly you at times will make your own parts or at least refinish some you have. For me to properly fit everything as I see fit I need to do a lot from scratch. So far it has been very beneficial to me to do it this way and I see no reason to change now.
Mark, serious advice. Not forum politics.

Believe in yourself. Do your own thing. In the quiet of your own thread, so that you can focus on the job.

Never let yourself get carried away by the crowd. Stay away from the imposing herd. That can lead you astray. From your objective, your goal. Stay focus. On point. That's how we add this "professionalism" in what we do as retail traders. It's lonely at the top. Cheers
Know what you trade
  • #1,773
  • Mar 9, 2023 9:42pm Mar 9, 2023 9:42pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Mark, serious advice. Not forum politics. Believe in yourself. Do your own thing. In the quiet of your own thread, so that you can focus on the job. Never let yourself get carried away by the crowd. Stay away from the imposing herd. That can lead you astray. From your objective, your goal. Stay focus. On point. That's how we add this "professionalism" in what we do as retail traders. It's lonely at the top. Cheers
Jason,

Not necessary to keep saying that. It's good.

I am not sure if you have spent much time here in this thread that I call "my house", but it is a journal of my journey in finally, finally, finally learning how price moves and the best way for ME to trade it. Sometimes a thought runs through my head and right here in my house it goes.

If I did not believe in myself I sure would not be here right now. I am actually doing something I don't think has ever been done on this forum, I am for the most part better or worse annotating a journey of creation. Yeah that was a lofty statement, but one I think is true. The feeling of doing this is exhilarating. Seriously.

Thank you for your concern. I do mean that. Because I take serious what I am doing almost more than anything I have ever done.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #1,774
  • Mar 9, 2023 10:13pm Mar 9, 2023 10:13pm
I'm outta here for the night.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #1,775
  • Mar 9, 2023 11:50pm Mar 9, 2023 11:50pm
Quoting spzd
You folk from OZ really get no respect {image} https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCVR...nel=GregoryMay
Has been in the 70 ish yen years ago.
  • #1,776
  • Mar 10, 2023 10:08am Mar 10, 2023 10:08am
Curious how the current veil is lifted so you can see what you need to see in the moment. CBenson was set before me at just the right time. He has a more simplified view of SBurke method and his explanations cleared a lot of things up. Still some fuzzy areas.



There are no coincidences.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #1,777
  • Mar 10, 2023 10:13am Mar 10, 2023 10:13am
May need to get a bigger screen.

You know - older people don't see a lot of stuff scrunched up too small. One reason you don't see a lot of older people with their face constantly stuck to their phone. Technology has seriously fucked up culture.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #1,778
  • Mar 10, 2023 10:30am Mar 10, 2023 10:30am
I have nothing against ICT. I think he can trade. He did not invent all he says he did. The downside is he makes it look so easy, then along come the influencers who use his method - which is not that different from numerous other PA traders - so they learned to trade market structure with price action - which is not much different than what I am figuring out - and then everyone and his dog thinks they can trade similar to him and the results are really not good. Why? People don't seem to want to do their due diligence in learning.

I will say this again, you want to get good you need to immerse yourself in what you are doing.

Just like FF. There are likely no more than a couple dozen who actually trade for a living here. Everybody else is basically a wannabe. At this moment I fall into the latter, plan to change that soon.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #1,779
  • Mar 10, 2023 10:34am Mar 10, 2023 10:34am
My learning journey has been almost 8 solid months of markets and learning them- eat, breath, sleep markets. I have done the 10k hours crash course which trades constant time for accelerated learning.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #1,780
  • Mar 10, 2023 10:51am Mar 10, 2023 10:51am
The Lou4 and the Just4. Notice how all 8 move in a similar manner. Not direction, HOW. Also notice how the quicker moves all come at certain specific times or very close. Most don't see these things.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Lou4-2023-03-10_104428.png Size: 47 KB



Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Just4-2023-03-10_104315.png Size: 47 KB
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
0 traders viewing now