The Concept of 3D Charting. | Page 2 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Trading Equity Millipede Concept by Concept 99 replies

Suggestion for a charting sofware not charting service 3 replies

Charting tools that allow per-tick charting 0 replies

News Straddle concept to improve wins 2 replies

Concept:waiting for price to break. 4 replies

Attachments: The Concept of 3D Charting.
Exit Attachments

The Concept of 3D Charting.

  • #21
  • May 7, 2007 6:20am May 7, 2007 6:20am
With all of the new graphics in the last 20 years- it seems that the typical trading chart with bars and candlesticks is one of the last mediums to be enhanced.

I think the biggest problem, like Bemac is pondering, is finding just what additional info needs to be incorporated and how. We traders are always dealing with several dichotomies- Trending vs Ranging, Volume, Volatility. But how to incorporate this info visually into a better graphical representation has much room for improvement.

One little improvement I am just waiting for some programmer to conquer is a unlimited timeframe candle chart. Something that the timeframe can be instantly raised/lowered by spinning the ball on a mouse. We are always wanting to look at the higher timeframe to confirm the trend. What if you could start with a 5min candlestick chart and spin the wheel upt to 60min, then spin it higher up to daily- spim it however and you will be able to see the formations apperaing. Any trader that has spent many hours trying to look at different timeframes will understyand the problem of waiting for the new charts to be loaded.

There would be no need for charts with different timeframes. Just open up the Eur/Usd chart and instantly rotate through all timeframes as you please.

Rippy
  • #22
  • May 7, 2007 12:02pm May 7, 2007 12:02pm
3D candles.
i'm not sure people are feeling what i'm trying to say so i made a quick sketch.
the candle width is dictated by the speed of ascention or descention (intensity has been brought up in this thread) speed would be measured tic by tic for pip vs time=coordinate "C"
price=A
time=B
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 3d candles.jpg Size: 80 KB
It really is that easy.
  • #23
  • May 7, 2007 12:23pm May 7, 2007 12:23pm
Force. can you try to clearyfy the picture? how thos 3d candels whoud work? and what creates thos dimensions?
  • #24
  • May 7, 2007 1:04pm May 7, 2007 1:04pm
Good technique for adding clarity is volume based charts. Where each bar is not measured in minutes, but rather X number of contracts traded. I've seen this with esignal, so basically when there is little trading activity, bars will be created slowly. Forex can be aproximated via futures i guess, i'm not sure how well that would work though...
  • #25
  • May 7, 2007 1:45pm May 7, 2007 1:45pm
I'm sure a more nuanced chart could be developed. As somebody pointed out earlier, transparency and layering haven't been fully exploited yet.
Attached Image
  • #26
  • May 7, 2007 3:32pm May 7, 2007 3:32pm
lol Mother you lost me with that stuff, lol it's ok, I'll get it sooner or later. Sometimes I'm just a little slow.

I dig the 3d model Fxorce, I'm also curios what exactly is the 3rd point. I've heard a few mention volume and intensity, which I could grasp volume being a significant indication of intensity. Still seems like there would be more too it.
  • #27
  • Edited 4:09pm May 7, 2007 3:58pm | Edited 4:09pm
Quoting shadeslay
lol Mother you lost me with that stuff, lol it's ok, I'll get it sooner or later. Sometimes I'm just a little slow.

I dig the 3d model Fxorce, I'm also curios what exactly is the 3rd point. I've heard a few mention volume and intensity, which I could grasp volume being a significant indication of intensity. Still seems like there would be more too it.
dont worry i think i need 20 a4 to clearly explane only the perspective what i am after.

for me the dimension is. that 1st horisont perspective is example. 4h chard . the second horisont is 5m chard. and the 3th dimension is the price movement. (as above i was talking about East,West horisont and Yourself in the middle.)

and creating this cind of "3d grid"(look post befour in from RSI) what form fragments on top of RSI(what used in my studyes). to observe the price movements as in 3dimensional space.

i will compile it it more understandable form in future.

here small example picture from the Fragments and "tubes" (as this "GRID")

http://www.kapteeni.org/iRMA/RSIfrak...xplanation.gif

IMPORTANT: this is older part of memoes. more often tube (trend) is created from 4 lines. but attends to resonate in middle of thos as in example 1,2 here. (sometimes the start or ending seems to resonate between full TUBE 4 lines. or resonates full move between all 4 lines several times. pressure resonates allways in diffrent shape and sizes and lenght.

this "grid" is formed tru indication lines from 4h and 5m. (in this example!!)
  • #28
  • May 7, 2007 5:35pm May 7, 2007 5:35pm
Do you think that volatility could be added to each image. Somehow each bar could be a graphical representation of open,high,low,close + volume + volatility + ADX.

Expand the image for each bar a particular way for each variable. Use the traditional volume bars and stretch the third dimension with volatility and then ,maybe adding some further color behind the bar image for adx or (trendness). I am just running ideas by the discussion based on variables I find usefull while trading.

I always am looking at volume first, I then look for trendness, then I usually look at volatility- all relative to recent price activity.

I would imagine that all kind of new chart patterns would be visualized.

A computer graphical designer would most likely be more able to apply these representations. A chartist or trader needs to meld his/her techniques with a very "artsy" visual computer designer etc.. and see what they can both come up with. Combine both of the talents together.

Rip
  • #29
  • May 7, 2007 9:45pm May 7, 2007 9:45pm
Now we got some great grey cells going...
My question is...
Can a target {to quoute a PM i received} the "z" Axis as being satisfied by numerous small, Large or indifferent candles?
And.
If so...
How should we measure said candles? Should they be weighted? Should it be a Net Pip Diff From A to B over the timeframe? Or otherwise?

I would rather chase and discount a particular Input as preferred to chasing them all at the same time and having to keep track of all results but that is just my opinion.

What say ye?

ps. Mother, you absolutely have some interesting stuff going there. Pls keep offering your input.
  • #30
  • May 7, 2007 9:54pm May 7, 2007 9:54pm
Quoting PipRippy
Do you think...
I would imagine that all kind of new chart patterns would be visualized.

Rip
Probem I foresee is changing the nature of how Candles are plotted and that may be a huge undertaking.

I'm thinking along the lines of a "New SubFrame" that would be totally defined to show {and include} our findings.
Volume, through individual Borkers though it may be, is still in my mind very important.

Increased volume at Borker 'A' should be reflected at Borker 'B'.
  • #31
  • May 7, 2007 10:13pm May 7, 2007 10:13pm
Predicting price movement and the weather have some similarities. Years ago I worked with doppler radar. I only skimmed through this post quickly and do not have a pic to post but based upon various descriptions this sounds just like the visual information provided by true doppler radar. Great 3D images. Do not get this confused by the simpllified images you see on the evening news. To understand a doppler radar screen takes much training. Its a screen full of various intermingling colors that after extensive training your mind can translate into information. Such a screen shows the movements in all directions of billions of molecules in the atmosphere (doppler shift). You can pick what elevation you want to view a slice of, which could equate to higher or lower time frames. You can see what is moving toward or away from you and what is moving up and down. Temperature, pressure, water vapor, wind speed can all be accounted for. Exchange the variables for forex variables. Computers can take all of this information and based upon historical precedent determine what will more than likely occur at at your location. Keep in mind when I worked in this field the best early warning we could predict with certainty a tornado's formation was 15 minutes. What I wouldn't give to know how a news event could effect me 15 minutes ahead of time. But then if everyone had this information AND everyone used it there would be no market.
Redefining Reality
  • #32
  • May 7, 2007 10:27pm May 7, 2007 10:27pm
How about this for the third dimension. Pull up a tick chart (say 50-tick chart) and use time as the third dimension. Then you have x(50-tick intervals), y(price change) and z(time elapsed).

Just an idea,
andersenws
"Youth is the trustee of prosperity." - Benjamin Disraeli
  • #33
  • May 7, 2007 10:36pm May 7, 2007 10:36pm
Quoting Mother
here is small memo as two timelines combines tru RSI 9.

minor observation have been made this works in meany occillator based indicators.

http://www.kapteeni.org/iRMA/exampleRSI.gif

as observing in 4h and creating indication lines how market behaved in that timeline. thos indication lines will create allmost horisontal barriers in 5m time line of perspective. and as creating same indications of 4h top of the 5 min perspective. creating Fragments of time and space where is possible to observe how market pressure behaves inside thos fragments.

resent concusion is that the compilation of 4 lines(middle dark 4 lines in bottom 5 min) creating one tube(trend). its more accurate. but most important is current 4 lines. and the behavour inside thos. (4h. 4 first lines is the start of "trend")

this way there is significant "trend" happening in all the time just in diffrent timelines of perspectives.

thos indication lines in RSI can be confirmed in price action with Fibonacci what creates barriers(horisontal lines) in price movements.

meaby in coming months i can compile small parts to create window for this. have lot of personal notes but Bad english as its not native language. And most of information and screen shot observations are not in clear and story form. due the personal memoes.

talking about space and time without the use of any type formulae to describe this space and time is like, diving into a swimming pool without water. can you provide mathematical proof of anything that you have said?
  • #34
  • May 7, 2007 10:40pm May 7, 2007 10:40pm
Quoting AmeriTrini
talking about space and time without the use of any type formulae to describe this space and time is like, diving into a swimming pool without water. can you provide mathematical proof of anything that you have said?
And...
Are you willing to?
C'mon Mum; spill the beans.
  • #35
  • May 7, 2007 10:45pm May 7, 2007 10:45pm
Quoting Bemac
And...
Are you willing to?
C'mon Mum; spill the beans.
Its not me that has anything to prove, its the person who came up with the idea........wouldn't you agree?? I only fight the fights that I start!!
  • #36
  • May 8, 2007 12:06am May 8, 2007 12:06am
Quoting AmeriTrini
Its not me that has anything to prove, its the person who came up with the idea........wouldn't you agree?? I only fight the fights that I start!!
My post was directed at Mother but...

Yes I would agree.

Kudos...
I'm only trying to get there & if I do it will most likely be from a post here @ FF.

In which case, the info will be your's, also.

And... I only fight the fights I can win...
  • #37
  • May 8, 2007 5:53am May 8, 2007 5:53am
all i want to say is the market is motivated by different things at different time frames. There are measurable parameters that are unseen unless you make an interpretation. Take for example the hypothesis that the market has a cyclical behaviour on a WEEKLY basis. If it does, how is it measured, what charts apply? Obviously there are algoritrhms for trading news, which involve 1 minute or tick charts.

What ismore $ return is a function of risk, trading style. Threfore there has to be a measure of personal input in the 'third dimension'.

My point is that in the first instance we must dispense with TA as a third dimension variable: it is a poor predictor of cycles, it does not anticipate trader risk/ return very well, it can be built into the second dimension anyway and indicators can often be forced into agreement with the traders wishes.

I know that the market has a weekly cycle, I know that the JPY, EURO and USD sessions are all different in nature. The question is how crowd behavoiur and personal trading behaviour results in optimal risk / reward. Combining TA, price, time and the third dimension of market intensity (which is an expression of the nature or personality of a market) is THE WAY

Peace out
Say NO to global warming
  • #38
  • Edited 6:19am May 8, 2007 6:02am | Edited 6:19am
Quoting AmeriTrini
talking about space and time without the use of any type formulae to describe this space and time is like, diving into a swimming pool without water. can you provide mathematical proof of anything that you have said?
the space is the Fragment. the Time is how long itwill take the market go tru this Fragment. sometimes it can take 2 hours as it bounces tru this space. and sometimes it can split tru it in 5 min.

if trying to get solid mathematical clearity that Fragment will take X amouth of time and its X amoith of size is abbsurt. as observing Choatic behavor what have similar charasteristic of real world how we handel it. Its possible to calculate mathematicaly eveyrthing what we can observe in this world with our eyes. but no one knows what is the next outcome of happening in this reality. As trying to mathematicaly calculate the size of object in next room what we have not seen yet. but as this object comes to our eye sight and visible this comes possible to calculate.

Taking powerful microscope and start zooming in and in. can not see the ultimate atom what creates this object. as that outcome is still unknown to us. this is the very key question of non-linear sience. that this random outcome of reality builds all "solid" material around us.

this thos Fragmets needs to be created in every new hi-peak market offers in that current moment. as thos hi-peaks will show the next borders of fragments. and as matket goes down. thos fragments can indicate places of intrests in coming Xmin to Xhour.

the outcome of the fragmet is allways unknown but in that NOW moment when the outcome comes clear its possible to observe how this outcome will effect itself in next fragment of time and space. but the outcome of next fragment is allways unkown. until time and movement will make it clear.
  • #39
  • May 8, 2007 6:45am May 8, 2007 6:45am
Quoting piptechnician
Predicting price movement and the weather have some similarities. Years ago I worked with doppler radar. I only skimmed through this post quickly and do not have a pic to post but based upon various descriptions this sounds just like the visual information provided by true doppler radar. Great 3D images. Do not get this confused by the simpllified images you see on the evening news. To understand a doppler radar screen takes much training. Its a screen full of various intermingling colors that after extensive training your mind can translate into information. Such a screen shows the movements in all directions of billions of molecules in the atmosphere (doppler shift). You can pick what elevation you want to view a slice of, which could equate to higher or lower time frames. You can see what is moving toward or away from you and what is moving up and down. Temperature, pressure, water vapor, wind speed can all be accounted for. Exchange the variables for forex variables. Computers can take all of this information and based upon historical precedent determine what will more than likely occur at at your location. Keep in mind when I worked in this field the best early warning we could predict with certainty a tornado's formation was 15 minutes. What I wouldn't give to know how a news event could effect me 15 minutes ahead of time. But then if everyone had this information AND everyone used it there would be no market.
Great post! it shares conspet what i am after in this fragment theory. Useing very same elements!. Need to look information about this dobbel radar and its behavour.
  • #40
  • May 8, 2007 8:15am May 8, 2007 8:15am
pst... the chart it self is indicator...... it is indicator,,,,, no doubt about it....
it is an indicator about correlation of 2 currency.... ( any disagree? )

compare with that price that poped up on tv, we can call it like a dot,
place all of that dot in a paper, we got line ... put it in a grid, we got a chart... should we put all of that chart to make something? maybe like cubism?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubism
we see now that chart is about point of view, about how we see 2 country (compared)...
to put another indicator over an indicator may not a good thing, like to see a problem from other people point of view.
i beleive we should see the true form of the problem, then with a diffrent point of view, we can see the problem more complete ( 3D? )

another way to see :
when we saw tv, and it looks like 3D which is not (because we saw it on 2D)
after a while we can predict, how it looks from the side?
0 traders viewing now