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  • #14,321
  • Mar 6, 2023 9:12am Mar 6, 2023 9:12am
Quoting pipmaster77
For those that still believe instant funding is the way to go.........the 5ers has finally given in and realized they must have a 2 step challenge or lose all of their market share https://the5ers.com/high-stakes Some added twists, salary at the top end of the program. This actually looks good. Will dive deeper later.

They have been having some server issues lately. For example last night I received this type of errors:
2023.03.05 23:59:28.697 (NZDUSD,M5) CTrade::OrderSend: market buy 0.49 NZDUSD sl: 0.61830 [unknown retcode 16]
2023.03.05 23:59:44.111 Trades '2309088': market buy 0.49 NZDUSD sl: 0.61832
2023.03.05 23:59:44.214 Trades '2309088': failed market buy 0.49 NZDUSD sl: 0.61832 [Operation was canceled]

Contacted their support earlier today and they said that they are trying to fix the issue. Not sure if it is working now. None of my limit orders have been properly triggered since I started the Bootcamp challenge last week so something seems to be off.
  • #14,322
  • Mar 6, 2023 9:23am Mar 6, 2023 9:23am
Quoting pipmaster77
For those that still believe instant funding is the way to go.........the 5ers has finally given in and realized they must have a 2 step challenge or lose all of their market share https://the5ers.com/high-stakes Some added twists, salary at the top end of the program. This actually looks good. Will dive deeper later.
I saw it mentioned over the weekend. They had a live stream announcing all their changes. Not bad actually, am curious what their indicie specs are.

Inserted Video
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #14,323
  • Mar 6, 2023 9:40am Mar 6, 2023 9:40am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} I saw it mentioned over the weekend. They had a live stream announcing all their changes. Not bad actually, am curious what their indicie specs are. https://youtu.be/ara6SpJ8CSY
Yes, I have always stated they are 100% legit. I just never found a program of theirs to be beneficial. This one looks very good on the surface. I'd actually love to trade with them. Will do a thorough look later this afternoon or this evening.
  • #14,324
  • Mar 6, 2023 9:41am Mar 6, 2023 9:41am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I can tell you with 100% certainty, not all prop firms are demo accounts when live. Scalpers generally are considered toxic flow on retail feeds, so when your eurusd spread is 0.0-0.4 that is retail liquidity, the tickets are small. If you get to 0.5 on the spread and add the commission, the scalpers generally start to lose. At 0.5 spread you can actually fill larger tickets around 20-30m but below that maybe its 1m or less. Funnily enough, this is why the smart money concept stuff is complete bullshit. Because you can't stick a 3 pip stop...
Yes, I've always felt MFF is pushing my orders. That is the only one though.
  • #14,325
  • Mar 6, 2023 10:13am Mar 6, 2023 10:13am
Looking at 5%er's new program, I'm not so sure how good it really is. Please correct me if I am wrong about it.

Assuming that I am seeing things correctly, it seems that they will increase your account size by 25% every time you flip the account. That seems better than other scaling plans, but the largest starting account size is 100k, so you would need to flip the account 4 times just to get what other firms already offer in terms of draw-down allowance.

Looks like the monthly salary would need 7 account flips without going bust (not including challenge/verification phases), which is very difficult to do. If you flipped a 1k personal account 7 times, you would have 128k to play with. You would still be able to put the original 1k investment back into your pocket and trade 'risk-free' since I did not count the flip from the challenge phases.

If we do count the flip from the challenge phases, and you decided to keep the original 1k in the account, then you would have 256k to play with at this point, and you could even withdraw 128k of profit instead of 1k, just by waiting, and still have 128k to play with.

If you can do that, then you might as well try flipping a personal account of 1k and turning it into 1 million after 10 flips.

I would assume that in order to continue qualifying for the monthly salary of 4k, that you would also need to meet and maintain certain criteria each month. Who knows how easy or difficult that would be. Maybe they would implement profit targets, stricter rules and/or require a minimum amount of trading hours each day. If that is true, then you would basically become an employee.
  • #14,326
  • Mar 6, 2023 10:38am Mar 6, 2023 10:38am
Quoting Nsak3y
Looking at 5%er's new program, I'm not so sure how good it really is. Please correct me if I am wrong about it. Assuming that I am seeing things correctly, it seems that they will increase your account size by 25% every time you flip the account. That seems better than other scaling plans, but the largest starting account size is 100k, so you would need to flip the account 4 times just to get what other firms already offer in terms of draw-down allowance. Looks like the monthly salary would need 7 account flips without going bust (not including...
I'll thoroughly look later today. On the surface, though it is $495 for 10K max loss. As you stated, it actually scales better than the other challenge models. The 100K max is definitely a drawback. Simply looking at it as an option to add 500K (eventually) to existing funding with an established company.
  • #14,327
  • Mar 6, 2023 10:43am Mar 6, 2023 10:43am
Quoting forexbali
{quote} you need to tell us which is the chart on left and who on the right
Trading view left and Finotive right top chart
  • #14,328
  • Mar 6, 2023 10:56am Mar 6, 2023 10:56am
Quoting pipmaster77
For those that still believe instant funding is the way to go.........the 5ers has finally given in and realized they must have a 2 step challenge or lose all of their market share https://the5ers.com/high-stakes Some added twists, salary at the top end of the program. This actually looks good. Will dive deeper later.
thanks I will study and update the spreadsheet since that 5ers is not banned.
in holiday till end of November
  • #14,329
  • Mar 6, 2023 11:10am Mar 6, 2023 11:10am
Quoting pipmaster77
For those that still believe instant funding is the way to go.........the 5ers has finally given in and realized they must have a 2 step challenge or lose all of their market share https://the5ers.com/high-stakes Some added twists, salary at the top end of the program. This actually looks good. Will dive deeper later.
$40,000 account for $800 lol why bother
  • #14,330
  • Mar 6, 2023 11:12am Mar 6, 2023 11:12am
from a fast analysis 5ers HIGH STAKE go in position 3, thanks to the payout up to 100%

i will check now all details, also good the 1:100 leverage.
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in holiday till end of November
  • #14,331
  • Mar 6, 2023 11:16am Mar 6, 2023 11:16am
Quoting fxValue
{quote} $40,000 account for $800 lol why bother
which program are you referring to? We are speaking of the new "high stakes" 5ers offering.
  • #14,332
  • Mar 6, 2023 11:21am Mar 6, 2023 11:21am
Quoting fxValue
{quote} $40,000 account for $800 lol why bother
Thats instant funding model, not their new 2 phase program. https://the5ers.com/high-stakes/

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #14,333
  • Mar 6, 2023 11:30am Mar 6, 2023 11:30am
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

I added 5ers highstake

70% to arrive from 100K to 350K and get salary of 4K per month

100% to arrive to max scaling of 500K and get 10K salary per month and 100% payout

it seem to me in the top 3 no as ratios

news 2 minute rules

copy, ea etc allowed

leverage 100
in holiday till end of November
  • #14,334
  • Mar 6, 2023 11:33am Mar 6, 2023 11:33am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I'll thoroughly look later today. On the surface, though it is $495 for 10K max loss. As you stated, it actually scales better than the other challenge models. The 100K max is definitely a drawback. Simply looking at it as an option to add 500K (eventually) to existing funding with an established company.
Several things I'm not fond of:

Quote
Stop Loss
The5ers suggests an ideal risk management recipiency, that requires submitting a proper stop-loss order for every position, market order, pending stop order, and pending limit order.
It is suggested, although not required for every position, market order, pending stop order, or pending limit order to contain a stop loss at a price level, which represents a maximum money risk of 1%, and preferably less.

This can leave some arbitrary decisions


Quote
Minimum profitable days
Quote
A profitable day is a day on which the closed positions made a positive profit* of at least 0.5% of the initial balance. *The positive profit is calculated as follows: Minimum(Midnight Balance, Midnight Equity) – Previous Day Balance.

This can be bad for swing traders with RR of 3, for example


Quote
Holding open trades over news is allowed. Executing orders 2 minutes before until 2 minutes after high-impact news news is not allowed.

Apparently SL and TP are not allowed too

Quote
When completing Step 2, traders will receive a refund for their payment.
I could not find information about this. If that's only with the first payout, like remaining props.

Anyway they have the positive point of being well stablished and reputable so I may give them a try.
  • #14,335
  • Edited 12:37pm Mar 6, 2023 12:25pm | Edited 12:37pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Several things I'm not fond of: {quote} This can leave some arbitrary decisions {quote} This can be bad for swing traders with RR of 3, for example {quote} Apparently SL and TP are not allowed too {quote} I could not find information about this. If that's only with the first payout, like remaining props. Anyway they have the positive point of being well stablished and reputable so I may give them a try.
Hello Capablanca.

This phase 2 program shouldn't have the SL rule of 1% or 2% risk.

Where have you read that? i can't find.

I think the unique rule is the 2 minute news rule that shouldn't be a problem.

With 100 leverage, will be impossible for a scalper to have max 1% risk on the same pair, because very hard to control with dozen of trades on the same pair.

Ok reading here: https://the5ers.com/high-stakes-terms-conditions/
It is suggested, although not required for every position, market order, pending stop order, or pending limit order to contain a stop loss at a price level, which represents a maximum money risk of 1%, and preferably lesss


ok that is what they "suggest" but it is not obbligatory.

Program is interesting, for sure lots of people will try to get the illusion to arrive to 500K and also a salary of 10K per month (how they can pay that if a trader doesn't make 10K per month and is relaxing with lower results?

Program Termination may take effect at any stage in the Program, from the evaluation period to any stage as PM Partner. Terminating the Program may occur for all of the below reasons:

  1. Reaching or passing the maximum drawdown allowance.
  2. Leaving the account inactive for over 28 days.
  3. Misusing or abusing the Program – as described under “Activity Restrictions” above.
  4. Skipping between various trading systems or methods within the same trading account (which indicates inconsistency).

in holiday till end of November
  • #14,336
  • Mar 6, 2023 1:20pm Mar 6, 2023 1:20pm
EURUSD 1:5 ratio

how do you see this trade?

Where I should post my trading journal?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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in holiday till end of November
  • #14,337
  • Mar 6, 2023 1:23pm Mar 6, 2023 1:23pm
Quoting forexbali
{quote} Hello Capablanca. This phase 2 program shouldn't have the SL rule of 1% or 2% risk. Where have you read that? i can't find. I think the unique rule is the 2 minute news rule that shouldn't be a problem. With 100 leverage, will be impossible for a scalper to have max 1% risk on the same pair, because very hard to control with dozen of trades on the same pair. Ok reading here: https://the5ers.com/high-stakes-terms-conditions/ It is suggested, although not required for every position, market order, pending stop order, or pending...
About the SL and so, this is the key phrase:
"...although not required for every position..."

How much enough is enough ? I just don't like arbitrary things that I can't control.

The one you point out about inconsistency is even worse.
  • #14,338
  • Mar 6, 2023 1:28pm Mar 6, 2023 1:28pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} About the SL and so, this is the key phrase: "...although not required for every position..." How much enough is enough ? I just don't like arbitrary things that I can't control. The one you point out about inconsistency is even worse.
Is like "we pay you as we can or we wish" then we payout you last time and bye bye, you are good enought to continue alone ha ha
in holiday till end of November
  • #14,339
  • Mar 6, 2023 1:32pm Mar 6, 2023 1:32pm
Quoting forexbali
Skipping between various trading systems or methods within the same trading account (which indicates inconsistency).

The rest all sounds fair enough, to me, but that one's very concerning because it opens up huge gray areas of potential interpretation, doesn't it?
  • #14,340
  • Mar 6, 2023 1:42pm Mar 6, 2023 1:42pm
Quoting forexbali
{quote} Is like "we pay you as we can or we wish" then we payout you last time and bye bye, you are good enought to continue alone ha ha
LOL
Virtue signaling is for those who are devoid of actual virtue
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