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Quit Job , go Back to School, Trade Forex?

  • #1
  • First Post: May 4, 2007 11:06am May 4, 2007 11:06am
Hey all,

I need some psychoanalyis time on the couch from some pro traders. I absolutely hate my job and have been wanting out of it for a long time. I have no future in this job and it's doing nothing developmental or productive for me other than give me a paycheck. I have a social sciences degree so I don't have many options right now. I want to transition to the financial industry as that's where my passion is i.e. stock market or forex, or possibly trade on my own. I'm taking finance graduate classes part time right now but want to quit my job and go full time to get things done faster and get moving into something I like, and fully involve myself and develop my trading skills day in and day out. That way I'd be getting two educations, one in school as a primary plan, and one in real life trading as a secondary plan. The problem is that this is obviously not financially smart. Right now I have four strategies in forex that are posting winning records for two months (284 total pips), and I'd like to spend more time testing and developing them, but it's hard to fully do that with my job. I'd like to be able to do full testing and development for at least 6-8 months, and if I post a profit then I'll put a large sum of money in my account. I know that I should stick with my job for the financial security and just take night classes and trade and learn when I have time, but I'd like to hear any contrarian opinions from anyone who's experienced in making such decisions, or feels they could tell me if the benefit outweighs the risk/financial burden or vice-versa.

Any thoughts?
  • #2
  • May 4, 2007 11:21am May 4, 2007 11:21am
Are you trading live now?
  • #3
  • Edited 4:41pm May 4, 2007 12:13pm | Edited 4:41pm
Yes. I traded live using a paid service and my account got blown out, but I learned that I love the forex and I knew I could succeed on my own. I've been trading live, with real money, on my own with four strategies with a very small amount of money. I'm doing this to practice, test and develop my strategies. I don't like practicing on a demo account because it's not realistic for psychological purposes. From all the books I've read and people I've talked to about trading, discipline and psychology are extremely important. I feel the only way to train and practice this aspect of trading is with real money. I'm actually planning to make another small deposit this month to test my discipline and psyche with larger money swings.

Sorry, long answer to a very easy question.

Thanks for your interest.
  • #4
  • May 4, 2007 2:05pm May 4, 2007 2:05pm
Quoting I Wanna Trade
Yes. I traded live using Freedomrocks and my account got blown out, but I learned that I love the forex and I knew I could succeed on my own. I've been trading live, with real money, on my own with four strategies with a very small amount of money. I'm doing this to practice, test and develop my strategies. I don't like practicing on a demo account because it's not realistic for psychological purposes. From all the books I've read and people I've talked to about trading, discipline and psychology are extremely important. I feel the only way to train and practice this aspect of trading is with real money. I'm actually planning to make another small deposit this month to test my discipline and psyche with larger money swings.

Sorry, long answer to a very easy question.

Thanks for your interest.
If your trading small account with microlots you're in the right path, imo. On my side, I'm giving a whole year to trade this way before jumping in serious cash. And I'm funding the account little by little, too

In this 5 months I'm trading, I lost $2.000 already. Well, $2.000 and 1 year to learn a new profession is cheap and quick, if you think about other professions.

So chew the anger with your job, coz it pays your bills. Set your plan, improve your trading skills and when the time comes, tell your boss to go to... well... you know the drill.
  • #5
  • May 4, 2007 2:06pm May 4, 2007 2:06pm
This is the 3rd or 4th " i wanna quit my job and trade' post i've read this week. Must have been a rough week for people. One solution not mentioned yet is to find a woman that has a job and talk her into marrying you, supporting you and then u can trade. Tell her how you'll be rich someday and you'll be as they say "shittin in the tall grass"
In trading, there is no bullshit. You either make money or you don't.
  • #6
  • May 4, 2007 2:14pm May 4, 2007 2:14pm
well in trading it's all about probabilities. So now you gotta decide which path has a higher probability of success without letting your emotions get the best of you.

IF i were you, i would just stick to the job and finish school. Yea it sucks to wait, but hey, the forex market is not going anywhere. You can always do daily trade and watch how you system perform on a long term trading. If it's good enough, it should work in the long term as well.
  • #7
  • May 4, 2007 2:19pm May 4, 2007 2:19pm
Quoting mrgreen
This is the 3rd or 4th " i wanna quit my job and trade' post i've read this week. Must have been a rough week for people. One solution not mentioned yet is to find a woman that has a job and talk her into marrying you, supporting you and then u can trade. Tell her how you'll be rich someday and you'll be as they say "shittin in the tall grass"
OK good. I want to do that. Mr Green ! First is to find that woman or at least her father who has those qualities.
Mr Green? Is your daughter married.
Thanks
  • #8
  • May 4, 2007 2:22pm May 4, 2007 2:22pm
One of the many things I thank God for is that I only had sons. My wife has a daughter from a prev marriage, - u wouldn't want her though, she wants someone to support her.
Quoting highway3000
OK good. I want to do that. Mr Green ! First is to find that woman or at least her father who has those qualities.
Mr Green? Is your daughter married.
Thanks
In trading, there is no bullshit. You either make money or you don't.
  • #9
  • May 4, 2007 2:30pm May 4, 2007 2:30pm
Quoting mrgreen
One of the many things I thank God for is that I only had sons. My wife has a daughter from a prev marriage, - u wouldn't want her though, she wants someone to support her.
Too bad Mr Green,
I already have a lot of expenses. Don't wish to increase that. I ought to think about boys then.
  • #10
  • Edited 4:46pm May 4, 2007 4:18pm | Edited 4:46pm
Quoting cesarnc
If your trading small account with microlots you're in the right path, imo. On my side, I'm giving a whole year to trade this way before jumping in serious cash. And I'm funding the account little by little, too

In this 5 months I'm trading, I lost $2.000 already. Well, $2.000 and 1 year to learn a new profession is cheap and quick, if you think about other professions.

So chew the anger with your job, coz it pays your bills. Set your plan, improve your trading skills and when the time comes, tell your boss to go to... well... you know the drill.
Thanks for your post cesarnc, it's interesting that we seem to be on similar paths. My perspective on the money I'm using now is that I consider it gone, spent, and done already. I call it "tuition" for learning a new skill or trade which is similar to you looking at it as professional training money. I jumped into the market fast and hard with that paid service and I paid the price, but I learned from it. So I'm going to try it the right way through learning, studying, developing strategies on my own, maintaining discipline, good money management and slowly easing my way into the market with serious money.

Thanks again for your post, it was helpful.
  • #11
  • May 4, 2007 4:22pm May 4, 2007 4:22pm
Quoting hilmy83
well in trading it's all about probabilities. So now you gotta decide which path has a higher probability of success without letting your emotions get the best of you.

IF i were you, i would just stick to the job and finish school. Yea it sucks to wait, but hey, the forex market is not going anywhere. You can always do daily trade and watch how you system perform on a long term trading. If it's good enough, it should work in the long term as well.
Not what I want to hear, but it's the probably the right and smart choice. And you're right about the emotions, that has been dominating a lot of this decision with the disdain for my job and the love of forex. Thanks for bringing that to light.
  • #12
  • May 4, 2007 4:59pm May 4, 2007 4:59pm
Exactly 2 years ago I asked myself the same question. Shall I quit my job and attempt to become a full-time trader or shall I keep it and learn about trading in the spare time?

I quit my job. I figured that trading is probably one of the most difficult jobs out there and there is no way I could become a full-time trader by reading books over the weekend or checking out charts at night. No way.

I had some savings in my bank account that could pay the bills for well over a year. I decided to give it a shot and in case of failure, I could still get another job and be happy. I just had this pushing need to either make it or break it, so I had to do it.

Keep in mind I was 29 and had no wife, kids, and mortgage. Only a girlfriend who was very understanding and 100% behind me.

I lost 25-30% of my account in my first year. Some say it's already a success because I didn't blow out...I'm still angry about it though because I am very competitive and want to be a winner.

However, there was no way I could make any profits with the way I was trading and all the crap I filled my mind with reading almost all trading books.

Today I am a profitable futures trader and I am very happy with the way things are going. I don't consider myself a professional trader yet...I'll do that after 10yrs of consistent profits, so still a long way to go.

Keep in mind that I switched from trading FOREX out of daily charts to daytrading eminis via the 2-3 min charts. I changed my trading system about 50 times and used all indicators offered by known software providers.

Today I only have volume and price. I don't need anything else.

My advice is the following:

1) If you have the capital to survive for 1-2 yrs and pay the bills, you may want to consider the same path as me. You have no idea how much quicker you are going to learn things when you have the whole day to learn and study trading. Doing it part-time with another job is not the same thing. It may take yrs before you make some money, and you'd be older with more responsibilities and it's gonna be really hard to quit your job then.

2) Don't waste time seeking the perfect system. I lost 12 months doing that and came out empty-handed. There is no perfect system. All systems are perfect under certain market conditions...and all systems fail under different market conditions. Learn how to make your system and style FLEXIBLE to market conditions.

3) Try to know yourself and choose the trading style that best suits your personality. This makes a huge difference. Do you like to stare at monitors all day and be in the action often? Be a daytrader. Are you instead a more analytical person who likes to take time to ponder decisions and enjoys several breaks during the day? Be a swing trader. You get the point.

Hope my feedback helps.

GL
  • #13
  • Edited 6:34pm May 4, 2007 5:29pm | Edited 6:34pm
Quoting ItalianSharp
I quit my job. I figured that trading is probably one of the most difficult jobs out there and there is no way I could become a full-time trader by reading books over the weekend or checking out charts at night. No way.
Exactly how I feel.

Quoting ItalianSharp
I had some savings in my bank account that could pay the bills for well over a year. I decided to give it a shot and in case of failure, I could still get another job and be happy. I just had this pushing need to either make it or break it, so I had to do it.
Unfortunately I don't have that, and probably won't have it within the next 5 years living in California and with my job. I was going to take the risk and use the savings I had now and live off a part time job and student loans. If trading didn't work out, which it probably wouldn't, then I'd just finish my degree and move onto another industry. At least I'd be out of my sorry current job and doing things I enjoy. The problem is the money and debt issue.

Quoting ItalianSharp
Keep in mind I was 29 and had no wife, kids, and mortgage. Only a girlfriend who was very understanding and 100% behind me.
That's crazy, I'm 29 and have no wife, kids or mortgage. I also have a girlfriend (somewhat supportive) and I'm half Italian. Hopefully this isn't the part when I have a psychological realization that there are two me's and I'm talking to myself on a forum as two different people. lol.

Quoting ItalianSharp
1) If you have the capital to survive for 1-2 yrs and pay the bills, you may want to consider the same path as me. You have no idea how much quicker you are going to learn things when you have the whole day to learn and study trading. Doing it part-time with another job is not the same thing. It may take yrs before you make some money, and you'd be older with more responsibilities and it's gonna be really hard to quit your job then.
Unfortunately, I will just never be able to save up that kind of money for another few years and by then I'll probably have the wife, kids, mortgage etc. and won't be able to take risks like that. I'm already finding out it's tough to trade part time as I miss a lot of opportunities and I can't be awake at times I'd like to be.

Quoting ItalianSharp
2) Don't waste time seeking the perfect system. I lost 12 months doing that and came out empty-handed. There is no perfect system. All systems are perfect under certain market conditions...and all systems fail under different market conditions. Learn how to make your system and style FLEXIBLE to market conditions.
I learned that the hard way with that paid service I mentioned. I'll never do that again. I put together four strategies from books I've read, forums, websites and one I developed on my own. They all have a positive return so far. But they haven't been tested rigorously throughout the day and over long periods of time. That's tough to do when you work full time.

Quoting ItalianSharp
Hope my feedback helps.
Sure did help, thanks a lot, I really appreciate your input, ItalianSharp.
  • #14
  • May 4, 2007 5:45pm May 4, 2007 5:45pm
Here's a question...

Who's the more successful "trading personality?"

1. The guy who quits the job and goes full bore into a new "position" he decides has a probability for success? OR

2. The guy that paces himself and though it SUCKS he sticks with his plan (system) no matter how boring it may be.


My guess is the 2nd guy makes money consistently... the first guys blows out his account (maybe a few times).

Are you quitting your job because you want the excitement back? If that's the real psychological reason behind the move... I'd take a cold shower and think it over.

If you're good... trading small (even part time) and winning consistently will bring you to trading big. If you love trading... sounds like you do... it's worth going down that path of "slow and steady." It's good practice for your trading "character."

In my experience, trading done right seems sort of anti-climatic... system signal says BUY... I buy... if it says SELL... I sell. Yeah... I take profit now... but it was NO WHERE NEAR AS EXCITING as taking those super "risk-it-all" trades that tended to take me outta the game.
  • #15
  • May 4, 2007 6:27pm May 4, 2007 6:27pm
Quoting I Wanna Trade
.. and I'm half Italian ...
This is a thing in your life to be proud of
  • #16
  • May 4, 2007 6:28pm May 4, 2007 6:28pm
Very good advice, AggieTrader, except for the cold shower bit...ain't happenen. But seriously, thanks for the advice it's very helpful.
  • #17
  • May 4, 2007 6:33pm May 4, 2007 6:33pm
This is never something anyone can answer online, but I understand you are more looking to talk out your own thoughts really.

I will say one thing if you are passionate and hardworking, nothing should prevent you from accomplishing your goals and you will do what it takes.

Playing it "safe" is for most. But don't take risks where you can't feed yourself and pay your bills. Gotta find that medium. Trust your gut.


I wish you very much success,
Mike
  • #18
  • May 4, 2007 6:37pm May 4, 2007 6:37pm
Quoting skyline
This is a thing in your life to be proud of
Good call, I am proud, and I didn't mean that I wasn't proud. The sad face was there to show that I was worried about my possible split personality. But after your post I reread it again and saw that it looked like what you interpretted it as. I fixed it. My bad.

Good call.
  • #19
  • May 4, 2007 7:13pm May 4, 2007 7:13pm
If you don't have enough time to follow FOREX all day long...why don't you trade something different and get a part-time job?

You'd be surprised by how much money you can make trading emini futures in the first couple of hrs after the open, from 9.30 to 11.30...

If you are good at trading, you probably can make money trading pretty much anything...

I believe FOREX has been hyped so much simply because it allows beginners to trade micro-lots and have some fun at it...Basically, since FOREX is an unregulated market, they opened their doors to pretty much anyone who can make a $200 deposit via credit card...more suckers in FOREX, more money for the pros...

What are the reasons you want to become a FOREX trader? What are the advantages over trading other markets?

I am playing the devil's advocate here, capisci?

You wanna make sure you trade the right instrument that fits your trading style. Not all trading instruments are the same.

No matter what, if you have it in you and you are stubborn enough, i am sure you'll eventually make it. Over the course of my first two years I found myself facing crossroads many times...continue or quit? When you see your savings going down to pay the bills and your trading capital being slowly eroded by your bad trading, you certainly start to second guess yourself...these are the tough times and these are the times when the weak newbies quit...they just can't take the pain any longer and need to stop the bleeding...

Every time I felt I touched the bottom, there still was another bottom to fall onto...lol

I don't mean to sound dramatic...but if you start from scratch you definetely go thru a psychological roller-coaster...that's the hardest part of it...

I remember one morning I received a phone call from the HR manager of a big company I'd applied to a few years ago from which I obviously never heard anything...well, guess what? They still had my resume on file and wanted to interview me for this good job position...the lady asked me what I had been up to and stuff...and after a moment of silence, I simply told her that I sent my resume in 2001 and now we are in 2007 for God's sake...and that I sort of got sick of working out the corporate ladder and that I am a full-time trader now...next she asked me: "What's trading?" That was funny to hear...I told her I speculate daily in the futures markets and I no longer was interested in working for anyone else but myself...She thanked me for being quite honest and said: "We'll talk again some other time" and I replied: "I hope not...that would mean I'd be seeking a job again and my trading career is over"

After I hang up the phone, I thought about the conversation for like 30mins...and I was shocked by how quickly I denied the interview...that's when I actually knew that this is my job. I didn't even tell my girlfriend nor any of my friends...I'll tell them in 10 years maybe...

Dear half-Italian fellow, follow your gut feeling...this is my advice...just make sure you keep decent financial stability...

Keep in mind that if you make a mistake by following your gut feeling you'll never regret it...whereas if you screw up because you listened to someone else or because it was the most logic thing to do...well, you may have some regrets later on in your life.
  • #20
  • May 4, 2007 8:19pm May 4, 2007 8:19pm
Quoting ItalianSharp
If you don't have enough time to follow FOREX all day long...why don't you trade something different and get a part-time job?
Well I can't follow forex all day long because I'm working. If I wasn't working, or at least not as much, then I can trade when and how I wanted, i.e. staying up or waking up for a fundamental news release, waking up real early for the same knowing I can go back to sleep right after, monitoring trades throughout the day in case I have to change the strategy and basically to have the time to fully engulf myself in forex books, studies and strategy development. My job now pays good, and will pay a lot better every year.........but I really hate it, and I'm not happy at all there, and that's more important than making money and "getting by".

Quoting italiansharp
You'd be surprised by how much money you can make trading emini futures in the first couple of hrs after the open, from 9.30 to 11.30...
If you are good at trading, you probably can make money trading pretty much anything...What are the reasons you want to become a FOREX trader? What are the advantages over trading other markets?
I understand you probably meant those as rhetorical questions but I thought I'd throw this out there anyways as it helps organize my thoughts. I actually wanted to ditch forex after I lost 97% of my money with that paid service. But I decided to mess around and see what I could do with that small amount just for kicks. Well, I ended up doing very well and without realizing it, I ended up learning a heck of a lot. More than any college course I've ever taken. I wanted to get into the stock market, perhaps try day/swing trading futures, e-minis, etc. But in a very good book (not sure I can mention the name in this forum) by a daytrader he states all the computers, monitors, software, data feeds and startup capital you need for this and it's insane. It seems like you really need $10,000 just to get setup and another $20,000+ in capital to trade. Then on top of that I'd need 6-12 months of expenses saved up. C'mon. Ain't happen. Forex is very easy to trade, setup and get involved in and I'm already into it and I might have found a niche that may prove to be successful. The futures aspect seems like a much bigger financial commitment which I don't have. Am I going wrong somewhere?

Quoting italiansharp
I am playing the devil's advocate here, capisci?
Yes, Don ItalianSharp.

Quoting italiansharp
No matter what, if you have it in you and you are stubborn enough, i am sure you'll eventually make it. Over the course of my first two years I found myself facing crossroads many times...continue or quit? When you see your savings going down to pay the bills and your trading capital being slowly eroded by your bad trading, you certainly start to second guess yourself...these are the tough times and these are the times when the weak newbies quit...they just can't take the pain any longer and need to stop the bleeding...
This was a main reason I am saying that trading would be a "backburner plan". Seeing as that it's such a long shot I don't want to put all my hope and eggs in that basket. The primary focus would be on my masters degree in finance and getting a job later. But, with a little luck, I was hoping that I might succeed in trading on my own in the meantime.

Quoting italiansharp
I don't mean to sound dramatic...but if you start from scratch you definetely go thru a psychological roller-coaster...that's the hardest part of it...
Good to know

Quoting italiansharp
I remember one morning I received a phone call from the HR manager of a big company I'd applied to a few years ago from which I obviously never heard anything...well, guess what? They still had my resume on file and wanted to interview me for this good job position...the lady asked me what I had been up to and stuff...and after a moment of silence, I simply told her that I sent my resume in 2001 and now we are in 2007 for God's sake...and that I sort of got sick of working out the corporate ladder and that I am a full-time trader now...next she asked me: "What's trading?" That was funny to hear...I told her I speculate daily in the futures markets and I no longer was interested in working for anyone else but myself...She thanked me for being quite honest and said: "We'll talk again some other time" and I replied: "I hope not...that would mean I'd be seeking a job again and my trading career is over"
Well, that's what I and many others hope for some day.

Quoting italiansharp
After I hang up the phone, I thought about the conversation for like 30mins...and I was shocked by how quickly I denied the interview...that's when I actually knew that this is my job. I didn't even tell my girlfriend nor any of my friends...I'll tell them in 10 years maybe...
Nice!

Quoting italiansharp
Dear half-Italian fellow, follow your gut feeling...this is my advice...just make sure you keep decent financial stability...

Keep in mind that if you make a mistake by following your gut feeling you'll never regret it...whereas if you screw up because you listened to someone else or because it was the most logic thing to do...well, you may have some regrets later on in your life.
True that! Thanks a lot again, friend.
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