MB Trading Futures - Introduction | Page 33 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Introduction and trading basics 27 replies

Introduction to Level 2 4 replies

VTTrader: How to Write Your Own VT Indicator Introduction. 0 replies

Interest Rates: An Introduction 0 replies

An introduction to spread betting 0 replies

Attachments: MB Trading Futures - Introduction
Exit Attachments

MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #641
  • Apr 26, 2007 3:50pm Apr 26, 2007 3:50pm
Quoting leighsww
I had posted earlier about a quirkiness in the Demo account, and was given another Demo account which had the same problem (my Basis kept getting changed during the 12:00 midnight server downtime).

Justin had assured me (via email) that this doesn't occur with the live accounts, so I took a chance and funded my live account and crossed my fingers.

Well, I've been trading with my live account for a week now and LOVE it! I am so glad I decided to go with EFX!!!

So, for those skeptical about how the demo accounts compare to the live accounts, the demo accounts DO NOT perform with the dependability of the live accounts, the LIVE accounts are dependable (in my own experience, so far, anyway)

AND in regards to their charting platform ... although EFX now offers a FREE version of the Intellichart, you can't beat the paid desktop version. $50 is a small price to pay for the caliber of this charting software, in my opinion. My husband used to pay way more for his charting system when he was trading Options, and we've spent thousands of dollars on various other trading software, etc. in the past, so to me, $50 is worth the investment (and a small one at that) if one is doing this as a serious business.

I had gotten used to the MetaTrader4 platform when I was demo'ing, and at first was disappointed that EFX couldn't be used with MetaTrader4, however after using the paid version of the Intellicharts, I am LOVING it, as well!!! There are a few things that could be bettered about it, but overall I find the capabilities wonderful (maybe even better than MetaTrader4 - although I hadn't/haven't learned all there is to know about either software, I'm basing it on only what I have/am experiencing so far).

AND for those who are thinking "why should I sign up with EFX since I can sign up directly with MBTrading," (I've seen this mentioned in some other thread somewhere) well the difference is ... Justin!! His level of care and customer service is EXCELLENT!! Both my husband and I have emailed him several times with various questions during the last month or two, and he is ALWAYS quick to respond. It is very hard to find this caliber of customer care/service from companies/businesses these days.

In fact, for me, customer service is number one in priority (even before price) and I would rather pay more doing business with a company that I can depend on to give me quality service and customer care, than having to contend with all the stress and headaches of a company that is poor in that regard (and I've had my share of that in the past, so I don't settle for it anymore).

So as a satisfied customer of EFX, I will say ... "sign up with EFX and they will take care of you!"

Well said!!
Thumbs up to you, Justin!!
  • #642
  • Apr 27, 2007 8:03am Apr 27, 2007 8:03am
could anyone trading live at EFX please let me know about the spreads during news release time?

i'm not trading the news but my broker usually increases gbp/usd spread to 20 pips and this makes me nervous as I hold my trades for a few hours with stop losses at around 30 pips...

thanks so much
  • #643
  • Edited 1:47pm Apr 27, 2007 1:29pm | Edited 1:47pm
As I understand it ... the spreads are created as Bids and Asks are being created, and when there's fast action happening and lots are being bought and sold so fast, there's going to be sometimes huge gaps between the Bid and Ask prices.

I've seen the spreads move from zero pips to 4 pips to 2 pips then to 5 pips then back down to 1 pip then up again to 4 pips, etc. etc. in a matter of seconds during fast action.

I use the Navigator platform and you can see all this action happening by looking at the Level II and FX Board sections.

When the server goes down at 12:00 midnight, you can see this same spread action happening as the server goes back online as the Level II loads the Bid/Ask data back up. Once they are fully loaded, the spreads go back to normal (which is normally 1 - 3 pips)

Since EFX doesn't control the spreads (it's created by all the Buyers and Sellers in the market at the time), it can change constantly depending on the supply and demand at any particular time. I've never seen it go to 20 pips however, but I'm not saying that it hasn't or couldn't, just never did see it whenever I've ever looked at it (I trade only the 6 major currency pairs, but other currency pairs with lower liquidity would probably have higher spreads at certain times just because there's not as many trades going into the pool).

Anyway, after reading some horror stories about dealing desks that trade against you or requote, etc., I feel safe with EFX since they do not do such things (them being an ECN and all).

So far in my experience trading live with EFX/MBTrading has been great ... when I place a limit order, I get the price I want to pay, when I place a market order, I get the price/spread it is showing at the time. However, jumping into the action with market orders during the news, would be a crap shoot (in my opinion), lol.

* Edited - Oh I should add ... I guess if you so happen have your position auto or manually exited/stopped with a market order at the exact time that the spread happens to be wide, then that's going to be unfortunate, but there's really not anything that can anticipate that happening, nor is that under anybody's control.
  • #644
  • Apr 30, 2007 1:49pm Apr 30, 2007 1:49pm
A friend of mine trading with MBT went long 300k on GBP this morning in a quiet market period. He finally got 6 or 7 pips profit and used a limit sell to take profits. He had the sell price, set by accident below the current market to take some profits on 150k of his order. His order got broken into several small sizes into 7 orders all very small totally 150k. At that point in time the market was slow and not changing bid prices by more then just 1 pip at a time. His fill should have netted him about 5 pips of profits on his 150k. Guess what." his fills were 40-60 pips lower the any market price costing him $1600.00 to exit the trade with no change in bid prices and they claim he was at fault. I warned him they would get him sooner "NOT LATER". AT FAULT because he entered a limit trade to sell below the market price and they can fill you at any price there banks want to fill you at. What kept them from filling 500 pips or 600 pips or 700 pips or 1000 pips lower in that case. I personally here of cases like this all the time. This one is documented.... Be aware most people don't have it in them to complain, about this type of bull crap. If the NFA allows this to happen and don't get more involved here then they could have cleaned out his whole account here while he was actually taking profits on a trade. This should make you think about having very much money in your account when taking profits you might lose it all ........
  • #645
  • Apr 30, 2007 4:15pm Apr 30, 2007 4:15pm
Quoting Forex1man
A friend of mine trading with MBT went long 300k on GBP this morning in a quiet market period. He finally got 6 or 7 pips profit and used a limit sell to take profits. He had the sell price, set by accident below the current market to take some profits on 150k of his order. His order got broken into several small sizes into 7 orders all very small totally 150k. At that point in time the market was slow and not changing bid prices by more then just 1 pip at a time. His fill should have netted him about 5 pips of profits on his 150k. Guess what." his fills were 40-60 pips lower the any market price costing him $1600.00 to exit the trade with no change in bid prices and they claim he was at fault. I warned him they would get him sooner "NOT LATER". AT FAULT because he entered a limit trade to sell below the market price and they can fill you at any price there banks want to fill you at. What kept them from filling 500 pips or 600 pips or 700 pips or 1000 pips lower in that case. I personally here of cases like this all the time. This one is documented.... Be aware most people don't have it in them to complain, about this type of bull crap. If the NFA allows this to happen and don't get more involved here then they could have cleaned out his whole account here while he was actually taking profits on a trade. This should make you think about having very much money in your account when taking profits you might lose it all ........
Dear Forum Members,

Since this post did not come from the actual trader and because the poster failed to point out some pertinent information, I will be requesting the Forex Factory moderators please remove this positing.

In the meantime I will address it.

The client mentioned in the post did contact us this afternoon, we have determined the issue and here are a few of the key points;

  1. The client is running vista and had improperly installed the trading platform. The client was receiving multiple crashes on a daily basis as a direct result of this improper install. We did troubled shot the install with the client and it has been corrected.
  2. The client had manually set their price vs speed preference to 5 therefore when the client submits an order it will look in the ecn book for the quickest fill rather then the best fill price. This is a feature used by news traders typically and not during normal trading hours.
  3. The client had turned off all order confirmations by choice and therefore received no warnings that they had in fact set the wrong limit price for their trade.
  4. At this time we feel the software performed exactly how it should based on the settings the client chose.

I think it’s very obvious from the client feedback in the multiple forums we participate in that we are certainly not out to get anyone. If you feel you’ve received a bad fill, please pick up the phone and call and we will more then glad to walk through it and help you determine exactly what has happened. More so, we are here to help and will always do our best to support our clients.

Thank you for the opportunity to clarify some inaccuracies of the previous post.

  • #646
  • Edited May 1, 2007 12:20am Apr 30, 2007 4:59pm | Edited May 1, 2007 12:20am
Since you stated correctly I am not the client, neither did I claim to be the client. There was no inaccurancies in the above post. The client lost major sum of money trying to close a profitable trade that never had a bid price lower then his entry price. You also stated the client made changes to the platform that resulted in this happening. From my understanding from the client that assumption you made is incorrect. Client made no internal operation changes to the platform, other then mistakely entering a wrong figure for the limit amount causing a major loss to a profitable trade, that MBT refuses to acknowledge the rest even though non existiting orders where found in the platform caused by non-client platform problems and vista.

Why would any system search and fill an order 40 or more pips lower then current bid and try and say that is the quikest fill possible. EXPLAIN HOW A FARTHEST QUOTE FROM THE BID CAN BE QUICKEST FILL. Come on you can do better then that. If that is a true statement you are opening your account to unlimited loss potential each time you would try. What prevented that quickest fill from being 500 pips or more lower then the bid price. Nothing, so your account could be wiped out in that situation like explained above. Have you informed all your clients about this chance of happening to their accounts ? Losing their complete account, while taking profits in a profitable trade that the bid never went lower then the entry price ? Successful forex trading is tough enough, I sure what to use that type of platform that makes profitable trades into losers.

Please answer above questions: Question I would think MBT and EFX platform users would want to know.

1. Why would anyone want to receive the worst fill possible farthest from the bid or ask immediately?


2.What prevented that quickest fill from being 50, 100, 500, pips or more lower then the bid ?


3.Why would anybody want to take the chance of wiping their account out in one stroke, regarless of the size of the account to get a quick fill?



Hopefully potential and current clients will learn something here not discussed in your instruction manuel, that will prevent them from a loss that has potential to be devasting to their accounts. If you have the right to talk about the positives of your platforms, surely people have the right to explain the negatives and how losses happen without their knowledge and of pitfalls of using your platform. Asking to have the post removed is not showing both sides of the subject here.
  • #647
  • Apr 30, 2007 5:21pm Apr 30, 2007 5:21pm
Sounds Like The Platform Did What It Was Told To Do.
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #648
  • Apr 30, 2007 11:51pm Apr 30, 2007 11:51pm
Right turn profitable trade into a losing trade.
  • #649
  • May 1, 2007 3:24am May 1, 2007 3:24am
Quoting Forex1man
He finally got 6 or 7 pips profit and used a limit sell to take profits. He had the sell price, set by accident below the current market
You say your friend accidentally entered a bad sell price? Isn't that why this happened?
  • #650
  • May 1, 2007 8:36am May 1, 2007 8:36am
Quoting Jin
You say your friend accidentally entered a bad sell price? Isn't that why this happened?

Somewhat, he entered an limit to sell price that turned out to be below the bid price when entered. The internal settings of the platform for whatever reason caused it to fill at the lowest possible price which turned out to be 40-75 pips away from the then bid price. The error on entering could and does happen to people all the time. The platform could have filled him at any price even 500 pips lower devasting him or anyone making this easy error that is probably made hundreds of times everyday. Be aware they sure are not fore warning. Due to the platform settings it caused a trade that was profitable for a few hundred turn into a $1600 loss with a mouseclick, with the potential of that loss be unlimited up to the full account value, that is the point.
  • #651
  • May 1, 2007 9:52am May 1, 2007 9:52am
Quoting Forex1man
Somewhat, he entered an limit to sell price that turned out to be below the bid price when entered. The internal settings of the platform for whatever reason caused it to fill at the lowest possible price which turned out to be 40-75 pips away from the then bid price. The error on entering could and does happen to people all the time. The platform could have filled him at any price even 500 pips lower devasting him or anyone making this easy error that is probably made hundreds of times everyday. Be aware they sure are not fore warning. Due to the platform settings it caused a trade that was profitable for a few hundred turn into a $1600 loss with a mouseclick, with the potential of that loss be unlimited up to the full account value, that is the point.
I guess I'm confused myself.

1) Why isn't the client posting this instead of you? What's your incentive?

2) I think it is a well-documented point on these boards that the price versus speed setting is important in the EFX/MBTF platform. Some people want a fast fill, while others want to try to hit only the best bid/offer. The setting of the PvS lets you control this.

3) I'm sure Justin could do better than myself, but the way that I understand it, the "fastest" fill is another customer on their server because the order is sitting there instead of having to go out to another bank.
FXChant Singing the World of Forex
  • #652
  • May 1, 2007 9:53am May 1, 2007 9:53am
Quoting Forex1man
Somewhat, he entered an limit to sell price that turned out to be below the bid price when entered. The internal settings of the platform for whatever reason caused it to fill at the lowest possible price which turned out to be 40-75 pips away from the then bid price. The error on entering could and does happen to people all the time. The platform could have filled him at any price even 500 pips lower devasting him or anyone making this easy error that is probably made hundreds of times everyday. Be aware they sure are not fore warning. Due to the platform settings it caused a trade that was profitable for a few hundred turn into a $1600 loss with a mouseclick, with the potential of that loss be unlimited up to the full account value, that is the point.
Also, I wanted to add that I have found the EFX method of limit orders to give me a lot of control, not a lack of control, but I suppose if I put a wrong price, that would be my mistake.
FXChant Singing the World of Forex
  • #653
  • May 1, 2007 10:37am May 1, 2007 10:37am
Quoting fxchant
I guess I'm confused myself.

1) Why isn't the client posting this instead of you? What's your incentive?

2) I think it is a well-documented point on these boards that the price versus speed setting is important in the EFX/MBTF platform. Some people want a fast fill, while others want to try to hit only the best bid/offer. The setting of the PvS lets you control this.

3) I'm sure Justin could do better than myself, but the way that I understand it, the "fastest" fill is another customer on their server because the order is sitting there instead of having to go out to another bank.
FXChant ~

Yes, that’s correct. In other words, our system uses various pipelines to tap into pools of liquidity from a lot of banks. Everything in this world occurs in split seconds, but there is still some things that are “faster” than others. All of our customer orders interact directly with each other since we are not a deal desk and don’t take the opposite side of a trade.

 Here’s an example. Let’s say that the EURUSD is 1.3605 by 1.3606, and you want to buy 300 minis. Let’s say that our Level 2 shows 3000 available at 1.3606. Keep the following in mind:

 1.There is likely more than 3000 available. The banks don’t always display their full size. Obviously, there has to be at least 3000 available.
 2.Those 3000 could include other customers selling at 1.3606. Let’s say that 150 of the 3000 is customers selling at 1.3606.
 3.If you place an order to buy EURUSD at 1.3606 or higher limit, the 150 for sale are an immediate fill because they are on our system. The order doesn’t have to go out to a bank, get a confirmation, and then come back. It’s simply instantaneous.
 4.Your order might be filled as 150, 50, and 100 at 1.3606. In other words, you hit the customers for 150, one bank for 50, and another bank for 150. The platform’s job is to get your order out there to whatever sellers it needs to to get you a fill.

 Now, having said that, there are settings in the platform that allow you to control whether the platform focuses on Price or Speed (the Price versus Speed bar in properties). If you have it set more toward Price, the system will basically always try to get a fill at the bid or offer. In a fast market, it won’t go deeper into the Level 2 until the bid or offer moves. If you have it set toward Speed, then the system focuses less on immediate price (there are limitations) but more on where the fastest execution is. That would be other customer orders first. So, if you set Price versus Speed to the speed option and hit a buy 50 pips away, the system assumes that you are more in a rush to get filled, and it potentially decides that the customer sell orders 25 pips above the market are the “fastest” fill (it would find cheaper customer orders if there were any, but maybe other people are doing the same and already took out those orders).

So, to be accurate about it:

 1)If the customer had left the “Confirmation” option checked (you have to turn this off), he/she would have noticed that he/she was putting in an order way out of the market as the system would have asked for a confirmation of the trade.
 2)If the Price versus Speed option was set toward Price, this wouldn’t have happened.
 3)If the Limit order had been entered 5 pips below the market instead of 50, the fill couldn’t have been lower than the Limit. You have complete control over your fills, not us.

 So, the system acted appropriately based on the settings and the order that the client placed. You have complete control to make sure that this doesn’t happen again. We don’t give you bad fills intentionally. If they occur, it is because of the way that you placed the order and had your platform set to act.
  • #654
  • Edited May 3, 2007 11:14pm May 1, 2007 3:03pm | Edited May 3, 2007 11:14pm
Quoting jleblang
Since this post did not come from the actual trader and because the poster failed to point out some pertinent information, I will be requesting the Forex Factory moderators please remove this positing.
justin very sorry for getting this late!

i would delete it, but in this case i really dont think that is needed. this guy made a stupid noob mistake of entering a limit order below current levels. and now he wants to blame his broker for that? LOL call the NFA LOL?
Relax and be happy.
  • #655
  • May 1, 2007 3:06pm May 1, 2007 3:06pm
Quoting Forex1man
Due to the platform settings it caused a trade that was profitable for a few hundred turn into a $1600 loss with a mouseclick, with the potential of that loss be unlimited up to the full account value, that is the point.
LOL welcome to trading! you got two choices now, you can complain about the rules or play the game, its up to you!

btw, here is a post i made yesterday on this very subject...
Relax and be happy.
  • #656
  • May 3, 2007 8:59am May 3, 2007 8:59am
Looks like they added 1 or 2 more liquidity providers, or some of the exisiting ones utilize now the ability to quote sub-pip prices more often. The Euro-spread is really often between 0.5 and 0.9 pips now. Nice..
  • #657
  • May 4, 2007 10:19am May 4, 2007 10:19am
Jleblang, I have received this mail from EFX Group:
>We are unable to open your account based on information that you have
>supplied to us during the process of opening your new account. Given the
>risks involved with Forex and the information supplied it has been
>determined that Forex trading is unsuitable given your circumstances. We
>appreciate your interest.
>
>Sincerely
>
>New Accounts Manager

I am just eyeballing on this... If you dont accept new clients why dont you place criterias on your web site? Why did you force me fill in the long application and sign 2 documents? Just for fun? I didnt need spend my valuable time by reading about EFX, demo trading, and learning new platform without a reason. You should warn people before instaling demo, watching webinars and reading this threat, that they will not be able trade with you in live account. I have never seen such client treatment...
Or do you want to select clients that will be lossing, not earning???
  • #658
  • May 4, 2007 11:36am May 4, 2007 11:36am
Quoting radyfox
Jleblang, I have received this mail from EFX Group:
>We are unable to open your account based on information that you have
>supplied to us during the process of opening your new account. Given the
>risks involved with Forex and the information supplied it has been
>determined that Forex trading is unsuitable given your circumstances. We
>appreciate your interest.
>
>Sincerely
>
>New Accounts Manager

I am just eyeballing on this... If you dont accept new clients why dont you place criterias on your web site? Why did you force me fill in the long application and sign 2 documents? Just for fun? I didnt need spend my valuable time by reading about EFX, demo trading, and learning new platform without a reason. You should warn people before instaling demo, watching webinars and reading this threat, that they will not be able trade with you in live account. I have never seen such client treatment...
Or do you want to select clients that will be lossing, not earning???
Most if not all ECN type brokers I have seen require the information that you had to fill out so go yell at them also. They are doing you a favor most likely from putting in money you don't have to lose. Basically Justin would need more information on what questions you answered. Coming here in attack mode never solves anything.

Either there was a mistake, or you shouldn't be trading with a live account due to their criteria.
  • #659
  • May 4, 2007 11:46am May 4, 2007 11:46am
Quoting radyfox
Jleblang, I have received this mail from EFX Group:
>We are unable to open your account based on information that you have
>supplied to us during the process of opening your new account. Given the
>risks involved with Forex and the information supplied it has been
>determined that Forex trading is unsuitable given your circumstances. We
>appreciate your interest.
>
>Sincerely
>
>New Accounts Manager

I am just eyeballing on this... If you dont accept new clients why dont you place criterias on your web site? Why did you force me fill in the long application and sign 2 documents? Just for fun? I didnt need spend my valuable time by reading about EFX, demo trading, and learning new platform without a reason. You should warn people before instaling demo, watching webinars and reading this threat, that they will not be able trade with you in live account. I have never seen such client treatment...
Or do you want to select clients that will be lossing, not earning???
Radyfox ~

In the best interest of our clients & the firm, MBTF / EFX policy is not to open accounts for clients who fail to meet certain criteria based on the wishes, not the request of the NFA.

1. Low Annual Income
2. Low Net Worth
3. Low Liquid Net Worth
4. Lack of trading experience.
5. Under 21 years of age

Any combination of the above mentioned is grounds for account denial which is simply what happen in this case.

Regards
  • #660
  • May 4, 2007 11:57am May 4, 2007 11:57am
Justin, because this info is rather personal, would you prefer to have the last few posts removed? They have nothing to do with trading and contain personal information.

Thanks Scott

Moderator
2 traders viewing now