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  • #12,281
  • Nov 7, 2022 5:11pm Nov 7, 2022 5:11pm
Quoting forexbali
{quote} I moved my residence away from high tax country (Italy) many years ago, and I always move because impossible to come back to pay taxes at over 50%. The Belgium should be similar, is high tax country, so the invoices from prop firm will be considered personal income tax or corporate tax if you use a company. Then the rules in every country are different, so for example you could be subject to pay not only income tax, but also social contributions and other local taxes. So I think that if you contact your accountant and you show what is a...
But then again - your country paid for your education, if you were sick then there were a doctor or a hospital for you, tax money make the roads that you use to drive on. And all that were possible because people were nice people who paid taxes. I think you get the picture.
MetaTrader 4 - so many advantages.
  • #12,282
  • Nov 7, 2022 8:21pm Nov 7, 2022 8:21pm
Quoting RiskFighter
{quote} But then again - your country paid for your education, if you were sick then there were a doctor or a hospital for you, tax money make the roads that you use to drive on. And all that were possible because people were nice people who paid taxes. I think you get the picture.
Yep, here in the US all of us hard-working "nice" people pay taxes so we can pay for all the handouts to the lazy people who aren't so "nice". Of course, not all of it, most of it actually goes to foot the cost of all the hidden bullshit in the bills and laws that get passed.
Every country should send its taxpayers a report of where their taxes actual go, sot of like the annual report I receive from my homeowner's association.
  • #12,283
  • Nov 7, 2022 8:27pm Nov 7, 2022 8:27pm
Quoting Takisd
Medicine has me on the toilet 24 hours a day it seems, so my contributions have been limited to slight texts. I do not support the use of fundednext. Its a shady operation, shady owner, shady marketing its all shady. It might pay as they target the poorer nations and probably have the revenue to do so (use vpn from poorer countries and check the ads you see) but supporting such an entity is ... not nice. Of all the options to choose from, it is probably somewhere inside the pipes of my now overused porcelain throne.
Get well soon.
Your contribution is invaluable in this thread
Intraday only.
  • #12,284
  • Nov 7, 2022 9:29pm Nov 7, 2022 9:29pm
Has anyone withdrawn from any prop firm so far??
Arun
  • #12,285
  • Nov 7, 2022 9:48pm Nov 7, 2022 9:48pm
Quoting arunthegreat
Has anyone withdrawn from any prop firm so far??
You're kidding, correct? It cannot be possible that someone would just come in here and post that without reading ANY OF THE THREAD whatsoever?
  • #12,286
  • Nov 7, 2022 9:51pm Nov 7, 2022 9:51pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} You're kidding, correct? It cannot be possible that someone would just come in here and post that without reading ANY OF THE THREAD whatsoever?
Sorry dude.
Arun
  • #12,287
  • Nov 8, 2022 12:18am Nov 8, 2022 12:18am
Quoting forexbali
{quote} I moved my residence away from high tax country (Italy) many years ago, and I always move because impossible to come back to pay taxes at over 50%. The Belgium should be similar, is high tax country, so the invoices from prop firm will be considered personal income tax or corporate tax if you use a company. Then the rules in every country are different, so for example you could be subject to pay not only income tax, but also social contributions and other local taxes. So I think that if you contact your accountant and you show what is a...
This is called tax avoidance and all it takes is one tax agent in any of the countries you move to or even just have a bank/brokerage account in to pick up your case. You can land yourself in a lot of trouble doing this.
  • #12,288
  • Nov 8, 2022 1:01am Nov 8, 2022 1:01am
Quoting forexbali
{quote} congrats, this was the eval 200K or 300K? do you use some specific assistant advisor for order entry? or all manual 100%?
manual only, 300k
  • #12,289
  • Nov 8, 2022 4:05am Nov 8, 2022 4:05am
Quoting pipmaster77
Every country should send its taxpayers a report of where their taxes actual go, sot of like the annual report I receive from my homeowner's association.
-Better yet, renounce all citizenships and live on the water. I hear that there are some nice cruise ships that offer permanent residency. I guess you do not need to pay taxes if you are not a citizen of any country.

Joking aside, the sad part is, not having citizenship would likely mean that you could not legally step foot on land again. Isn't it great?

Quoting muir
This is called tax avoidance and all it takes is one tax agent in any of the countries you move to or even just have a bank/brokerage account in to pick up your case. You can land yourself in a lot of trouble doing this.
-I will assume that you are referring to tax evasion, which is illegal. Tax avoidance is smart, perfectly legal and even recommended, so long as it is done properly.
  • #12,290
  • Edited 4:39am Nov 8, 2022 4:25am | Edited 4:39am
Quoting muir
{quote} This is called tax avoidance and all it takes is one tax agent in any of the countries you move to or even just have a bank/brokerage account in to pick up your case. You can land yourself in a lot of trouble doing this.
Are you joking? May be if you have US passport, not in Europe.

We can move in any country of Europe easily, live there 183 days and be residents and pay taxes there, or 0% taxed there because we have many countries in europe with 0% capital gain taxes.

Who is in the US it's lucky, in Europe we have Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal with over 40-60% unemployment of young people, and we speak of who can do a job that it's much more stable of a trader job.

Nothing is illegal, a lots of people move every here and decide to change residency. 183 days rule is very common, just ask to your tax advisor :-)

Quoting muir
{quote} This is called tax avoidance and all it takes is one tax agent in any of the countries you move to or even just have a bank/brokerage account in to pick up your case. You can land yourself in a lot of trouble doing this.
I made millions $ profits as trader, and I paid also 0% taxes because I lived in a EU country with zero % capital gain tax.

Everything is legal, if you move your ass and change your country.

Just ask your tax advisor.

Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Better yet, renounce all citizenships and live on the water. I hear that there are some nice cruise ships that offer permanent residency. I guess you do not need to pay taxes if you are not a citizen of any country. Joking aside, the sad part is, not having citizenship would likely mean that you could not legally step foot on land again. Isn't it great? {quote}-I will assume that you are referring to tax evasion, which is illegal. Tax avoidance is smart, perfectly legal and even recommended, so long as it is done properly.
we call it tax planning, because the word "avoidance" still seem like at the border of illegality, is like when somebody want to show that leave in another country, but then live in his previous country. Just to clarify, you have to live in another country usually 183 days, but there are many let you live and tax residency even with just 60 or 90 days, may be even less, but are already rare with 60-90 days, and then you can't live in any other country in 365 days period for more of 183 days or you will be double taxed with double residency.

I was resident in Europe in many countries with 0% capital gain tax.

Now, if we are lucky, soon in Indonesia will pass a law for 5 years 0% tax for digital nomads. Still not live this law but may be in 2023 they will do it, they already approved a 5-10 years visa, that was already hard to get a visa to live even 6 months. However till will not pass I will stay in the EU, but hope to make an holiday in Bali soon if come the new law, tax free, 100% legal.

Only US passport and citizenship is a big issue because you can't do tax planning easily, but other passports are usually good to have freedom to move to live around the world and pay taxes where you live, or no taxes... if are 0%.
in holiday till end of November
  • #12,291
  • Nov 8, 2022 4:40am Nov 8, 2022 4:40am
Quoting forexbali
{quote}I made millions $ profits as trader, and I paid also 0% taxes because I lived in a EU country with zero % capital gain tax.
Then I don't quite understand why you want to trade with prop firms. Trade your own capital and don't waste time with all the rules
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #12,292
  • Nov 8, 2022 4:48am Nov 8, 2022 4:48am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} Then I don't quite understand why you want to trade with prop firms. Trade your own capital and don't waste time with all the rules
It's a long story, I was scammed by the Royal Family of an european country, I'm at the court right now, and they damaged me hardly, so I have no choice right now to build a bigger AUM via prop, and after, if goes better, why not to use the prop firms money? I would never trade forex, and use leverage, and do scalping again in my life if I was not in a difficult moment like this. I have better strategy and safe on US sp500 options where I do (my team of friends) around 20-25% net per year, with zero stress and max 5-6 drawdown risk.

Unfortunately I can't survive, and this is my plan B. And it is hard...

I think I will start in few days with MFF eval 300K plan. I will suffer 30 days to pass the 8%. We will see... I will inform you as I get my account.
in holiday till end of November
  • #12,293
  • Nov 8, 2022 4:56am Nov 8, 2022 4:56am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yep, here in the US all of us hard-working "nice" people pay taxes so we can pay for all the handouts to the lazy people who aren't so "nice". Of course, not all of it, most of it actually goes to foot the cost of all the hidden bullshit in the bills and laws that get passed. Every country should send its taxpayers a report of where their taxes actual go, sot of like the annual report I receive from my homeowner's association.
In my country people are more willing to pay tax. This way all people can get a FREE education and FREE medical care and FREE a lot of other things. And the cool thing is, that we do not have many lazy people. Because they are educated and because they can see that it matters if they earn money, they want to work and to be the director of their own life.
MetaTrader 4 - so many advantages.
  • #12,294
  • Nov 8, 2022 6:30am Nov 8, 2022 6:30am
Quoting forexbali
I paid also 0% taxes because I lived in a EU country with zero % capital gain tax.
-Trading with these prop firms may not be considered as capital gains (for anyone that may be reading this); always best to check with your local tax experts.

Quoting Vitore
Then I don't quite understand why you want to trade with prop firms. Trade your own capital and don't waste time with all the rules
-There is value in being able to use other people's money. Similar to real estate investors that use financing to secure new property even though they do not have to.
  • #12,295
  • Nov 8, 2022 6:48am Nov 8, 2022 6:48am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-There is value in being able to use other people's money. Similar to real estate investors that use financing to secure new property even though they do not have to.
True. But it seems the personal situation is very different to what I had assumed so trading prop firms' money actually does make a lot of sense now
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #12,296
  • Nov 8, 2022 7:18am Nov 8, 2022 7:18am
Quoting StarPod
Hello traders ! I live in Belgium (Wallonia) and I'm quite new to prop firm trading. Actually, I don't really know about the tax laws in Belgium concerning the prop firms, and it's quite impossible to find any information on that subject. Is there any Belgian trader here who might help, or even a "tax system" thread / Belgium thread ? {quote} J3roM, if you still come here, feel free to get in touch with me (on this thread or with private message), as I actually can't send a private message myself Have a nice day you all
You are providing a service for which you invoice them. It doesn't matter what that service is, it could be cleaning or admin it is treated as such with regard to tax laws in the UK and Europe. If you were trading your own money it would be different altogether, but you're not thats why you won't find specific information on prop firms you need to look up tax providing a service in your country. You are self employed, or you can become a limited company and pay tax as a business.
  • #12,297
  • Nov 8, 2022 7:35am Nov 8, 2022 7:35am
Quoting RiskFighter
{quote} In my country people are more willing to pay tax. This way all people can get a FREE education and FREE medical care and FREE a lot of other things. And the cool thing is, that we do not have many lazy people. Because they are educated and because they can see that it matters if they earn money, they want to work and to be the director of their own life.
It works till the time you get overwhelmed by freeloaders like in certain EU countries that pushed strong social policies.

A close friend of mine, an equities trader renounced US citizenship since he doesnt live in US anways. Reduced his tax footprint down to like 4-5%
  • #12,298
  • Nov 8, 2022 7:44am Nov 8, 2022 7:44am
Quoting LehmanBrotha
{quote} It works till the time you get overwhelmed by freeloaders like in certain EU countries that pushed strong social policies. A close friend of mine, an equities trader renounced US citizenship since he doesnt live in US anways. Reduced his tax footprint down to like 4-5%
Yes, paying taxes in the US....you know it's not going to anything to improve anyone's lives or the country in general.........just further strengthens the enablement of the rely on the government mentality. Of course, the more reliant you become, the more power they hold, etc, etc, etc.
Funny thing is....... people actually vote for this shit.
What country did your friend become a citizen of?
  • #12,299
  • Nov 8, 2022 7:45am Nov 8, 2022 7:45am
Quoting lynnc
{quote}You are providing a service for which you invoice them. It doesn't matter what that service is, it could be cleaning or admin it is treated as such with regard to tax laws in the UK and Europe. If you were trading your own money it would be different altogether, but you're not thats why you won't find specific information on prop firms you need to look up tax providing a service in your country. You are self employed, or you can become a limited company and pay tax as a business.
This is how the prop firms want to see us - traders, providing a service. But it couldn't be further from reality. What service are we supposed to provide? Should it be our trading orders - then they would have to use and follow our "advice". But they don't. They don't care about how we "trade". They have their own risk management team to decide whether they would ignore our trades, follow them, or do the exact opposite. Actually it is more like betting (btw. CFD is also called spread betting in UK). We pay a refundable entry fee to get the virtual capital for our on-line betting. Then we get a portion of your winnings. So it should be taxed in the same way as winnings from the lottery games.

Actually the prop firms are service providers. We are their customers. I don't care about what they say in their contracts, and I don't care that they force us to get the winnings by issuing invoices. That doesn't make any difference. They provide us with a service of placing our bets. They get paid for the service by the profit split they keep from our winnings. We are the customers, they are the service providers. That's my stance for my local tax office
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #12,300
  • Nov 8, 2022 7:48am Nov 8, 2022 7:48am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} This is how prop firms want to see it - traders, providing a service. But it couldn't be further from reality. What service are we supposed to provide? Should it be our trading orders - then they would have to use and follow our "advice". But they don't. They don't care about how we "trade". They have their own risk management team to decide whether they would ignore our trades, follow them, or do the exact opposite. Actually this is more like betting (btw. CFD is also called spread betting in UK). We pay a refundable entry fee to get the...
That may be your stance, but it is not the tax office stance and thats the one that counts (I only know first hand experience in the UK) I issue them an invoice, every 2 weeks and they pay the invoice. I then show the tax man my invoices, as well as any expenses that have to be taken off for example, broadband costs etc etc. I then pay tax yearly on my earnings.

You can invoice someone for advice on filling in their tax return, it doesn't mean they have to take that advice, but you earned money anyway, its exactly the same thing. Thats all the tax man here cares about.
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