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  • #9,901
  • Aug 8, 2022 12:26pm Aug 8, 2022 12:26pm
are there any more propfirms out there that fund with real money? ive only found 2 so far, mentfunding and surge trader, i dont have experience with mentfunding but ive had good experience with surge trader customer support answering my questions about their firm. Any others you guys recommend?
  • #9,902
  • Aug 8, 2022 12:35pm Aug 8, 2022 12:35pm
Quoting ohyeah
{quote} What does the Spot Rate Ladder mean? You mean for 2000 standard lots the spread is 9 pips??
Yes
  • #9,903
  • Aug 8, 2022 12:38pm Aug 8, 2022 12:38pm
Quoting tdfxo33
are there any more propfirms out there that fund with real money? ive only found 2 so far, mentfunding and surge trader, i dont have experience with mentfunding but ive had good experience with surge trader customer support answering my questions about their firm. Any others you guys recommend?
Why do you care if they fund with real money? Your concern should be... do they have a history of paying with no issues? Fake money... Real money... am I getting paid is all I care about.
  • #9,904
  • Aug 8, 2022 12:59pm Aug 8, 2022 12:59pm
FYI
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  • #9,905
  • Aug 8, 2022 1:03pm Aug 8, 2022 1:03pm
Are there any prop firms that use existing retail brokers?
  • #9,906
  • Edited 1:49pm Aug 8, 2022 1:36pm | Edited 1:49pm
FYI
Inserted Video

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 2022-08-08_204823.gif Size: 135 KB
  • #9,907
  • Aug 8, 2022 4:21pm Aug 8, 2022 4:21pm
Quoting tdfxo33
are there any more propfirms out there that fund with real money? ive only found 2 so far, mentfunding and surge trader, i dont have experience with mentfunding but ive had good experience with surge trader customer support answering my questions about their firm. Any others you guys recommend?

surge trader... real money? hAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Ment.... real money ..... ahahahahahhahahahaahahahahahahahahaha
  • #9,908
  • Aug 8, 2022 5:38pm Aug 8, 2022 5:38pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} surge trader... real money? hAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Ment.... real money ..... ahahahahahhahahahaahahahahahahahahaha
Not sure of the obsession with "real money". Do people not realize the licensing required, not only on the prop end, but as an individual to trade "real money"? This is the best case scenario for all involved.....demo account and they maybe????? copy to their live account. We are so fortunate this even exists. Otherwise, you would need to obtain individual licensing and maybe get a 20% split. As CableJ stated earlier...... ARE YOU GETTING PAID? everything else is irrelevant.
  • #9,909
  • Aug 8, 2022 5:45pm Aug 8, 2022 5:45pm
Quoting tdfxo33
are there any more propfirms out there that fund with real money? ive only found 2 so far, mentfunding and surge trader, i dont have experience with mentfunding but ive had good experience with surge trader customer support answering my questions about their firm. Any others you guys recommend?
I like your sense of humour if you think Mentfunding provides actual funding.
  • #9,910
  • Aug 8, 2022 7:14pm Aug 8, 2022 7:14pm
Quoting EnoFX
{quote} I like your sense of humour if you think Mentfunding provides actual funding.
Could you please clarify how it would benefit the prop firm it's not actual funding? The payout to the trader would be actual so I'm not understanding how the prop firm could still benefit.
  • #9,911
  • Aug 8, 2022 7:45pm Aug 8, 2022 7:45pm
At some point in their structure the trades must be applied to real money otherwise how could real money payouts be generated? It would be interesting to hear from the prop traders here about how real money payouts could be generated otherwise.
  • #9,912
  • Edited 9:26pm Aug 8, 2022 8:20pm | Edited 9:26pm
Quoting madpips
At some point in their structure the trades must be applied to real money otherwise how could real money payouts be generated? It would be interesting to hear from the prop traders here about how real money payouts could be generated otherwise.
Imagine 10,000 traders pay $600 for a 100K evaluation. That equals 6 million dollars in evaluation fees.

Now imagine that 5% of those traders actually pass the evaluation and become funded traders.

Now imagine that miraculously ALL 500 of those funded traders actually made 10% in their first month of trading.

Assuming they get paid 80% of the 10K that equals 4 million dollars in payouts (8000 x 500)

Also, they get their fee reimbursed which equals 300 thousand dollars (600 x 500).

So now the prop firm after payouts and fee reimbursements is left with 1.7 million dollars ( 6 million - 4 million - 300 thousand)

Certainly, a bit simplified and it's likely that fewer traders actually make it to a payout but you get the point.

Also, I'm sure most prop firms have some type of B-booking metric to guide them when making decisions on whether to send actual trades into the interbank market.

I'm sure Taksid et al have a better answer than that.

After paying 10 support agents named Mubumbo Akmayagabaga peanuts for wages and maybe even paying jiggling Jessica Ganey to dance on a pole for marketing purposes it still works out well for the prop firm
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #9,913
  • Aug 8, 2022 8:40pm Aug 8, 2022 8:40pm
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Imagine 10,000 traders pay $600 for a 100K evaluation. That equals 6 million dollars in evaluation fees. Now imagine that 5% of those traders actually pass the evaluation and become funded traders. Now imagine that miraculously ALL 500 of those funded traders actually made 10% in their first month of trading. Assuming they get paid 80% of the 10K that equals 4 million dollars in payouts (8000 x 500) Also, they get their fee reimbursed which equals 300 thousand dollars (600 x 500). So now the prop firm after payouts and fee reimbursements...
If a company assumes that in its lifetime it will obtain 10K customers then 1.7 million is really not a lot for lifetime of the business when there would be costs for marketing, employing, taxes, and whatever else. But I can see how there would still be profit for the business creating this simulation. Even if everything is simulated for the first month or so, if a trader proves to be truly profitable then they should be prepared to take that trader out of simulation to put in a real environment.
  • #9,914
  • Aug 8, 2022 10:14pm Aug 8, 2022 10:14pm
If there are some features of the market that would behave differently in a demo environment versus a live environment then prop traders could test those features to get clues about if they are actually trading in a demo environment. I would think the demo environment has more advantages for the trader than any disadvantage.
  • #9,915
  • Aug 9, 2022 12:01am Aug 9, 2022 12:01am
Quoting madpips
If a company assumes that in its lifetime it will obtain 10K customers then 1.7 million is really not a lot for lifetime of the business when there would be costs for marketing, employing, taxes, and whatever else.
-Those 10K customers are repeat customers. They do not only pay once; they keep coming back for more.

These prop firms will continue to profit in perpetuity so long as prohibitive 3rd-parties do not get involved. With trading, even as failed traders eventually give up and quit, there will always be new traders looking to take their place. It is survival of the fittest. The few that stick it out and grow into sharks will continue to profit off of the newbies that are constantly jumping into the pool.

Quoting madpips
If there are some features of the market that would behave differently in a demo environment versus a live environment then prop traders could test those features to get clues about if they are actually trading in a demo environment. I would think the demo environment has more advantages for the trader than any disadvantage.
-Most of these firms are open and transparent about whether certain accounts are operating on demo or live. They are demo accounts in nearly all cases. Yes, demo offers some advantages to traders, but most firms have tools in place to simulate live market conditions in order to prevent abuse and ensure long-term profitability for the firm.
  • #9,916
  • Aug 9, 2022 12:10am Aug 9, 2022 12:10am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Those 10K customers are repeat customers. They do not only pay once; they keep coming back for more. These prop firms will continue to profit in perpetuity so long as prohibitive 3rd-parties do not get involved. With trading, even as failed traders eventually give up and quit, there will always be new traders looking to take their place. It is survival of the fittest. The few sharks that stick it out and find success will continue to profit off of the newbies that are constantly jumping into the pool. {quote}-Most of these firms are open...
I think this business model is here to stay because it makes sense for the business and the trader. It will be interesting to see how prop firms and retail brokers will coexist. I would think prop firms will have to become more and more competitive to get prop traders. All this is good for traders.
  • #9,917
  • Aug 9, 2022 2:26am Aug 9, 2022 2:26am
gooday guys

I come in peace, i read most of the thread and i must admit that there are many smart minds here but its a pity they are all in conflict with each other, if all these smart brains come together in harmony to develop a system that will beat brokers and prop firms im sure magic would have happened by now.

the prop firm model seems like a very lucrative model ONLY IF YOU CAN TRADE UNDER THEY ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE CONDITIONS, i think the hardest part is phase 1 evaluation stage, i think after that everything becomes EASIER.

the model is made for traders to loose, because markets change month by month, markets cycle and theres no system that wins under every market condition, we will experience dradown sometimes. I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS:

1. Has anyone here had a funded account for 6months or longer?
2. I have plans to attempt this prop firm thing, what advice will you give me?
3. Do you think that this is a viable way of earning from the markets or is it just dreams that can never be atttained?


for now here are my questions.
I am what Many Dream to be but only a few can achieve, im a part of the 1%
  • #9,918
  • Aug 9, 2022 2:35am Aug 9, 2022 2:35am
Quoting Soros
gooday guys I come in peace, i read most of the thread and i must admit that there are many smart minds here but its a pity they are all in conflict with each other, if all these smart brains come together in harmony to develop a system that will beat brokers and prop firms im sure magic would have happened by now. the prop firm model seems like a very lucrative model ONLY IF YOU CAN TRADE UNDER THEY ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE CONDITIONS, i think the hardest part is phase 1 evaluation stage, i think after that everything becomes EASIER. the model is made...
Before I started looking into this, I thought it was unreasonable too but after looking into it, it's actually quite reasonable. I haven't tried this yet but the advice I would give is to get the minimum package to try it out. Take for example the smallest package through MFF. Here the cost is $99 but you get access to a 500:1 10K account and keep 12% of the profit. There are no target requirements.
  • #9,919
  • Aug 9, 2022 3:46am Aug 9, 2022 3:46am
Could someone familiar with MFF please tell the difference between consistency enabled (CEA) or no consistency (NCA) account? They have a site link that is supposed to have an explanation but it just points to the main page.
  • #9,920
  • Aug 9, 2022 4:51am Aug 9, 2022 4:51am
Quoting Soros
I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS: 1. Has anyone here had a funded account for 6months or longer? 2. I have plans to attempt this prop firm thing, what advice will you give me? 3. Do you think that this is a viable way of earning from the markets or is it just dreams that can never be atttained? for now here are my questions.
ad 1. So far not, because I started recently and had no chance so far for that.
ad 2. You need to have proven strategy that can meet the goals from the challenges. Otherwise it does not make sense to start and just rely on luck. Do not do that.
ad 3. Of course it is viable way, but you need to have a solid strategy. Practice first or be sure on your walk forward/ out-of-sample results that your strategy will work.

Last, just on look on my table with the scores and their ranking to choose a solid prop firm.
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