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  • #9,761
  • Aug 6, 2022 8:26am Aug 6, 2022 8:26am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} What do you think are the advantages and disadvantages of trading on a broker like Sucden/Stone X, CFH, Advancedmarkets.com or Baxter-FX in comparison to ICM ?
I've tried demos of CFH and AdvancedMarkets and their spreads were larger so when compared to IC Markets, I don't see any advantage especially since I think IC Markets is now the largest broker by volume. But let's see what the experts here have to say.
  • #9,762
  • Aug 6, 2022 8:40am Aug 6, 2022 8:40am
Quoting ohyeah
{quote} I've tried demos of CFH and AdvancedMarkets and their spreads were larger so when compared to IC Markets, I don't see any advantage especially since I think IC Markets is now the largest broker by volume. But let's see what the experts here have to say.
I know that fact. But it really matters how much volume you can do with a certain spread. On ICM the tightest spread is only for micros and minilots. If you trade 10 lots or up to 30 lots in one trade you get much wider spread with ICM. As I have seen there is deeper liquidity on AdvancedMarkets for instance, but I am not really sure.
  • #9,763
  • Aug 6, 2022 8:49am Aug 6, 2022 8:49am
Quick question please to those in the know (preferably those funded and paid ) -

From these 2 options, which do you favour: E8 Funding or True Forex Funds; and why?

Aside your insights, I'm also interested in the lag time between issuing accounts once payment is made or a phase is passed; as well as the lag between payout requests and payment.

Thank you very much.
  • #9,764
  • Aug 6, 2022 8:57am Aug 6, 2022 8:57am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} The simple answer to your question is that prop firms, with the exception of maybe 2 or 3, dont have the knowledge or experience to seamlessly manipulate the feed without detection. Even brokers don't do it these days unless its blatant and some shitbox company. The bottom line is, retail traders are so bad, you don't need to manipulate the feed. Back in the days of instant execution, you did need to do it, but just by providing market execution you eliminate the people who abuse price feed inefficiencies and the rest of the traders are...
Your explanation is not convincing at all.
If a B-book does bad quotes and slippery to traders, sure traders will know and leave it, and that is not in the interest of B-book itself.
  • #9,765
  • Aug 6, 2022 8:58am Aug 6, 2022 8:58am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Takisd, as you seem to be well aware of the area, a quick question: what about Interactive Brokers (for forex) ? And how do they compare with IC Markets ? And where do you put tickmill compared with those two ? (I understood that you're ok with tickmill, right ?)

I'm not going to give broker recommendations because people are cult like around it. But all 3 of those are reputable companies. I use IBKR for non forex related stuff like ETF's. It is safe for me to say that you will have a positive fair experience with all 3.
  • #9,766
  • Aug 6, 2022 8:59am Aug 6, 2022 8:59am
Quoting wmwmw
{quote} So according what some people described, a B-book is just as a prop firm, it trades against traders. So why a prop firm does not abuse traders but most people think B-book abuse traders? I don't see the logic. If a B-book can do something illegal to take traders' money, then a prop firm can also. If a trader can find whether a prop firm gives him bad quotes, or wrong slippery, then a trader can also find whether a B-book does. So anyone who thinks a B-book is a bucket shop, then he would logically think a prop firm is a bucket shop. A casino...
Not every b book is cheating. There are some very credible, long standing b book brokers worldwide. What folks are saying is simply the broker/prop controls the feed, THEY CAN manipulate it, doesn't mean they all are. The most guilty are ironically, the most heavily regulated (imagine that?). The NFA/CFTC is supposed to be the toughest regulator(s) in the world and yet some of the biggest cheats have been uncovered in the US....think FXCM, Forex.com, even Oanda, Oanda just doesn't get caught, but their feed freezes all the time. 99% of the time, a frozen feed on a broker is NOT AN ACCIDENT.
When a broker is A- booking, there is no incentive to cheat, they do not care if you win or lose as they are not the other side.
  • #9,767
  • Aug 6, 2022 9:01am Aug 6, 2022 9:01am
Quoting wmwmw
{quote} Your explanation is not convincing at all. If a B-book does bad quotes and slippery to traders, sure traders will know and leave it, and that is not in the interest of B-book itself.

You don't have to be satisfied with my answer. But the fact is that 95% of traders lose, it doesn't hurt to pay out 5% when 95 lose and you dont have to do anything against a trader to obtain the 95% of losses.

But im not your broker/supplier so thats the end of it from my side as I have no reward for convincing you otherwise.
  • #9,768
  • Aug 6, 2022 9:02am Aug 6, 2022 9:02am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} The simple answer to your question is that prop firms, with the exception of maybe 2 or 3, dont have the knowledge or experience to seamlessly manipulate the feed without detection. Even brokers don't do it these days unless its blatant and some shitbox company. The bottom line is, retail traders are so bad, you don't need to manipulate the feed. Back in the days of instant execution, you did need to do it, but just by providing market execution you eliminate the people who abuse price feed inefficiencies and the rest of the traders are...
Exactly. Somewhere, someone taking the opposite end. Otherwise, there is no trade.
  • #9,769
  • Edited 9:29am Aug 6, 2022 9:14am | Edited 9:29am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Not every b book is cheating. There are some very credible, long standing b book brokers worldwide. What folks are saying is simply the broker/prop controls the feed, THEY CAN manipulate it, doesn't mean they all are. The most guilty are ironically, the most heavily regulated (imagine that?). The NFA/CFTC is supposed to be the toughest regulator(s) in the world and yet some of the biggest cheats have been uncovered in the US....think FXCM, Forex.com, even Oanda, Oanda just doesn't get caught, but their feed freezes all the time. 99% of the...
That is the problem.
People say B-book is bad not because they cheat on traders, but because they can stand on the opposite of trader's trades.
Having conflict interest with traders is not illegal, cheat is illegal.
But people equate these two things. That is the problem.
Just like a casino has conflict interest with gamblers is not illegal, cheat on gamblers is illegal.
can I discover if a B-book cheat on me? Of course I can.
Because I have other quote sources. You can assure that some slight worse quotes or slippery will cause me to quit the broker.
Because I have so many other brokers options that have good quotes without any bad things. I have used many forex brokers, most of them are offshore brokers, but never had one that has bad quotes or slippery. This is because of competitions. Anyone broker doing bad things to traders will go broke fast.
  • #9,770
  • Aug 6, 2022 9:17am Aug 6, 2022 9:17am
Quoting wmwmw
{quote} That is the problem. People say B-book is bad not because they cheat on traders, but because they can stand on the opposite of trader's trades. Having conflict interest with traders is not illegal, cheat is illegal. But people equate these two things. That is the problem. Just like a casino has conflict interest with gamblers is not illegal, cheat on gamblers is illegal. can I discover if a B-book cheat on me? of course I can. Because I have other quote sources. You can assure that some slight worse quotes or slippery will cause me to quit...
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/slippage.asp

If your broker does not have slippage, it is a casino.
  • #9,771
  • Aug 6, 2022 9:19am Aug 6, 2022 9:19am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I'm not going to give broker recommendations because people are cult like around it. But all 3 of those are reputable companies. I use IBKR for non forex related stuff like ETF's. It is safe for me to say that you will have a positive fair experience with all 3.
I'm a IB customer for more than a decade on non-forex and very happy. It's a one stop shop with great variety and good commissions.
I was just wondering how they compare with ICM and tickmill exclusively in terms of forex execution. I've been using ICM but never paid much attention to IB on forex.
And never tried tickmill.
  • #9,772
  • Aug 6, 2022 9:20am Aug 6, 2022 9:20am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/slippage.asp If your broker does not have slippage, it is a casino.
I never said brokers don't have slippery.
I said"BAD SLPPERY". That means a slippery that exceeds the normal range.
  • #9,773
  • Aug 6, 2022 9:21am Aug 6, 2022 9:21am
Quoting wmwmw
{quote} I never said brokers don't have slippery. I said"BAD SLPPERY". That means a slippery that exceeds the normal range.

Are you talking about during news time or in normal times? I will agree with you if its during normal hours.
  • #9,774
  • Aug 6, 2022 9:22am Aug 6, 2022 9:22am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Are you talking about during news time or in normal times? I will agree with you if its during normal hours.
Normal time.

Nowaday all traders exchange information on web. If a good broker delay a withdrawal from a trader, this information will spread on the net so fast that on the same day there will be many traders withdrawing their funds from this broker. That hurts the broker a lot.
A broker cheating on traders will only hurts itself.
  • #9,775
  • Aug 6, 2022 9:23am Aug 6, 2022 9:23am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I'm a IB customer for more than a decade on non-forex and very happy. It's a one stop shop with great variety and good commissions. I was just wondering how they compare with ICM and tickmill exclusively in terms of forex execution. I've been using ICM but never paid much attention to IB on forex. And never tried tickmill.

Tickmill pad their liquidity a bit so its more stable price than icmarkets but less tight. Both are great though its hard to say bad about people who are giants because they are good.
  • #9,776
  • Aug 6, 2022 9:23am Aug 6, 2022 9:23am
Quoting wmwmw
{quote} Normal time.

Then I agree about excessive slippage during normal hours unless of course volumes are massive (30 lots + on fx)
  • #9,777
  • Aug 6, 2022 9:27am Aug 6, 2022 9:27am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Tickmill pad their liquidity a bit so its more stable price than icmarkets but less tight. Both are great though its hard to say bad about people who are giants because they are good.
But would you ever consider IB for forex instead of ICM ? I have accounts in both, that's probably my main doubt right now after reading everything you wrote.

(and btw, thanks a mil for all you excellent insights about all this)
  • #9,778
  • Aug 6, 2022 9:34am Aug 6, 2022 9:34am
Quoting wmwmw
{quote} That is the problem. People say B-book is bad not because they cheat on traders, but because they can stand on the opposite of trader's trades. Having conflict interest with traders is not illegal, cheat is illegal. But people equate these two things. That is the problem. Just like a casino has conflict interest with gamblers is not illegal, cheat on gamblers is illegal. can I discover if a B-book cheat on me? of course I can. Because I have other quote sources. You can assure that some slight worse quotes or slippery will cause me to quit...
Prior to prop firms, I ONLY used the unregulated, offshore brokers. Far better experience than any of the regulated brokers in the US. I still have a couple of smaller accounts with them.
I think folks say b book is bad due to the conflict of interest ( I always thought this way as well) in regards to THEY CAN AND HAVE THE INCENTIVE TO CHEAT, not that they necessarily will. There are things that you will not notice, but could be very profitable on their end. Are you going to notice or can you even present a valid argument of a 0.5 pip spike tat you may not have seen with another broker? They will always use their LPs as an excuse. Perhaps they had tons of traders with their stop right there. FRozen platform for a minute or two? Not much you can do as a trader. Obviously an hour or two gets noticed, but everyone one way got stopped and every one the correct way couldn't close. Bottom line, as has been stated, it doesn't matter....if the broker isn't on the other side, the LP is, if that LP isn't the next level is.
If you're a good trader and KNOW HOW TO CONTROL RISK, you do not over leverage, it probably truly is irrelevant as long as you are getting paid.
  • #9,779
  • Aug 6, 2022 9:40am Aug 6, 2022 9:40am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Prior to prop firms, I ONLY used the unregulated, offshore brokers. Far better experience than any of the regulated brokers in the US. I still have a couple of smaller accounts with them. I think folks say b book is bad due to the conflict of interest ( I always thought this way as well) in regards to THEY CAN AND HAVE THE INCENTIVE TO CHEAT, not that they necessarily will. There are things that you will not notice, but could be very profitable on their end. Are you going to notice or can you even present a valid argument of a 0.5 pip spike...

"FRozen platform for a minute or two"
This sure will makes me quit this broker. I switched from coinexx to forexturnkey jsut because coinexx had two freezes in a month ,each of them lasted a few minutes.
What you did not consider is that , as competition is so hot, there are many brokers that do not have that kind of things. So I would not argue with the broker if it intentionally makes bad quotes and slippery, I just leave and have one that does not have such things. There are plenty options for me to choose.
  • #9,780
  • Aug 6, 2022 9:45am Aug 6, 2022 9:45am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} But would you ever consider IB for forex instead of ICM ? I have accounts in both, that's probably my main doubt right now after reading everything you wrote. (and btw, thanks a mil for all you excellent insights about all this)
no but not for reasons regarding their service.
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