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Trading Institutional Order Flow

  • #9,901
  • Jul 27, 2022 9:39am Jul 27, 2022 9:39am
Quoting maz19
{quote} What I meant is .. Thank you for the detailed unanswered explanation. "so i make most of my money at the beginning and leave a small portion as a trailer." make sense!
sure thing, take care, im off.
Indicators only Indicate, Price action dictates.
  • #9,902
  • Jul 27, 2022 2:30pm Jul 27, 2022 2:30pm
  •  maz19
  • | Joined May 2022 | Status: What you seek is seeking you! | 34 Posts
Quoting Nitink
Hey guys, took two trades in weekly zones with confirmation, let's see what will happen {image} {image}

Hi, you mentioned "with confirmation" could you please explain the criteria of confirmation? Is it a certain type of candlestick pattern it creates?

Thank you
  • #9,903
  • Jul 28, 2022 7:55am Jul 28, 2022 7:55am
Hello, may I ask, how do you identify a strong and weak supply/demand zone?
  • #9,904
  • Jul 28, 2022 5:45pm Jul 28, 2022 5:45pm
Quoting Sami1990
Hello, may I ask, how do you identify a strong and weak supply/demand zone?
I dont know if there is such a thing as a weak or strong S&D zone. what i do know is price cant move passed a zone without fist consuming those buyers and sellers. you'll get that move either as a retracement in the opposite direction of the trend or in the direction of the trend. your goal is to trade the bounces between supply and demand levels. sometimes you might get price that engulfs (literally) that demand level, which is because its hit a higher timeframe Supply level. so you do have to be careful still at each level that you pick. its better to trade with the trend, and if you are not trading with the trend, you are literally trying to pick tops and bottoms which is harder.

in the example below is USDCAD daily chart: We have hit a daily supply and now we are going down currently, correct? so what we want to do is go down into a lower timeframe to see where price is going.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Capture 2.PNG Size: 34 KB

this is the 4h chart: the highest and lowest point on this chart is the circles on the daily chart. i marked out the demands on the 4h chart where i think we can get a small ''correction'' in price. the theory goes, you cant head lower without first consuming what ever buyers there are left on this chart.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Capture 1.PNG Size: 32 KB

but dont forget we are coming from a higher time frame supply (daily supply) into a lower time frame demand (4h chart), and so if you are going to buy it at these levels on the 4h chart, you need to take into account that it might only be a corrective move, and we are infact going to break lower. if it is a buy as a corrective move you also need to take into account chart candles at demand level like a doji candle or hammer which will give you a signal to long at that particular time of the demand level. also we are creating supply levels that you can short too.

did i explain my self a little and whether it answered your question? i hope you all can understand what i am ''trying to explain''.
Indicators only Indicate, Price action dictates.
  • #9,905
  • Jul 28, 2022 7:48pm Jul 28, 2022 7:48pm
All trading is, is price always going back to its source, and its either at the beginning of a move which is a cap in price or in the middle of price which is a flag in price. You also don't get any price movement with out engulfing candles. Engulfing candles tells us the direction of price movement.

Have a good night.
Indicators only Indicate, Price action dictates.
  • #9,906
  • Jul 29, 2022 1:18am Jul 29, 2022 1:18am
Quoting zkchyo
{quote} Your candles are colorful. Do you mind sharing what those colored candles mean?
Hello zkchyo
Good to meet you

I colour the candles based on a set of rules I developed a few years ago, to assess the strength of the candles.

It's nothing major. Three parameters go into determining the colour
1. I grade the size of the body on a scale of 0 to 100
2. I apply a cut-off % for strength based on the size of the body relative to a 10 period ATR (since within the methodology we look for zones with 6 or less candles ideally, I chose 10 as a round figure type of thing).
3. I also look at how aggressive the close was in the upper or lower half of the range of the candle, depending on if it is an up candle or low candle (up candle is define simply as close>open; and a down candle as close<open).

Hope that helps

best wishes
Be careful what you think because your thoughts run your life..Solomon
  • #9,907
  • Jul 29, 2022 1:31am Jul 29, 2022 1:31am
Quoting Sami1990
Hello, may I ask, how do you identify a strong and weak supply/demand zone?
Hello Sami1990
Good to meet you and welcome to TIOF.

If I may, while it is a matter of some personal choice how "strong" or weak" is defined, within the methodology, there are basic parameters applied to each zone to determine whether it is worth consideration.

1. How far did prices move away from the zone on departure from it?
2. On departure, did prices make a new high(for a DZ) or a new low(for a SZ) OR did the movement of price from the zone removing an opposing zone to its left
3. How much time was spent at the zone before prices moved away from it? 1-3 is better than 4-6 which is better than >6

These three measurements are intrinsic to the zone itself.

Extrinsic to the zone are things like underlying trend (DZ will be stronger in an underlying uptrend context, and SZs will be stronger in an underlying downtrend context) and where the zone is located relative to big picture levels.

There are more that traders can and do use, but the above tend to be the bare minimum.

It is worth noting that some of these measurements are more important than others. It is also worth saying that not all traders will use all of them.

A scoring system is usually used and a trader can decide what that looks like and set cut-offs to assess what is weak for them, and what is strong.

Best wishes
Be careful what you think because your thoughts run your life..Solomon
  • #9,908
  • Jul 29, 2022 1:53am Jul 29, 2022 1:53am
Quoting Nitink
Hey guys, took two trades in weekly zones with confirmation, let's see what will happen {image} {image}
Hello Nitink
Good to meet you and welcome to T.I.O.F

Many thanks for sharing your trade ideas with the group. Much appreciated.

If I may make some observations of the trade ideas please.

I took the liberty of attaching a couple of charts looking at the daily charts of the intraday timeframes you posted and discussed some the potential reasons the trades may not have been ideal.

Having said that, it is often easy to go back and with hindsight say why a trade may not have worked, but it is important that we do it anyway as part of our deliberate practice. Every profession/pursuit does this type of analysis looking back at what went well and what hasn't gone so well with a particular practice, idea, system or project.

best wishes
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: audusd ff daily.PNG Size: 29 KB
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: usdcad ff daily.PNG Size: 26 KB
Be careful what you think because your thoughts run your life..Solomon
  • #9,909
  • Jul 29, 2022 3:02am Jul 29, 2022 3:02am
Quoting E7i
I have a a few questions please, I've been following the strategy for a while now but have minimal success (Still making money though, but I feel I'm limiting myself) 1 - As a day trader, Would the 1D,4H and the 1H not be the right time frames? Most of the Youtube videos show you trading 1D and then 15m, isnt that too much of a difference in timeframe? I've tried 1D and 15m for a month but feel there's too much of a gap in the timeframe, but then I don't get enough trades trading the 1D and 1H. 2- As a day trader, how many trades am I supposed to...
Hello E7i
Good to meet you and welcome to T.I.O.F
Thank you for questions. Very interesting ones and often asked.

If I may, I will give you my view point. I am sure you realise you are the one who will ultimately decide what is best for you.

1. The intraday timeframe a trader resorts to is entirely for timing purposes. With the sequence you mentioned, it is important you know that it effectively means you are trading the daily chart. You are using anything smaller to time your entries but you are trading the daily chart trend. So, with that in mind, going down to a 4hr can be used as an entry, so can any other timeframe lower than the daily, within reason. For example, the 4hr or the 1hr or the 30min or even as you have tried, the 15min. It is dependent on the trader to decide what timeframe you want. As you have found, trading the 15min will get you in earlier and give you more opportunities. It also means you are going to need to be more stringent in the criteria you apply to the zones you take. For example, using a DZ created as a result of a trendline break may not be sufficient and you will be well advised to apply other filters like making a new high and/or taking out an opposing supply zone or even as some supply and demand traders do, wait for prices to start trading above a 3 or 5 day exponential moving average that is sloping up and only taking demand zones above the average, all in an attempt to take trades with the intraday trend once it has shown sufficient evidence of a turn at a daily demand zone, for example.

2. As to how many trades you are "supposed" to be taking a week, if I may say, there is no set number. Also, the fact that you are thinking of number of trades/week rather than number of trades/day suggests there may be some misunderstanding about the timeframes. As mentioned, if you are day trading, you are really looking at trades/day if you want to even monitor that metric. It makes very little difference to your trading results. What it does potentially point to is your mindset and personality - both useful pieces of information for the trader. Maybe you are of such a personality that you prefer to have many trades and feel uncomfortable having long lay-off periods waiting for trades. That might be a good or bad thing, depending on how you view it. One obstacle you may face if you are that way is that of overtrading and so you will probably need to monitor you market activities for that issue.

3. Finally, the profit margins you mentioned. 2:1 will work with higher winning percentages. 3:1 allows for lower winning percentages. Basically, the higher one goes in terms of reward to risk ratios, the more room there is for mistakes. Now, you may be the type of person who likes quick trades, 2:1, in and out. There is nothing wrong with that. It is just that you have to become more skilful at choosing the trades you take in order to manage the likely event that you will be running at breakeven for long periods or even go into a drawdown period if you have a losing streak.

Apologies for the lengthy response

best wishes
Be careful what you think because your thoughts run your life..Solomon
  • #9,910
  • Jul 29, 2022 3:06am Jul 29, 2022 3:06am
Quoting Nitink
Hey guys Daily trend up. Price@ Daily DZ. I am trying to confirm entry on 1 hour . Not sure about trend line tho. I want to see opposing Zone Removed on 1H TF . My question is . Is the Trade Cooked or need some more time {image}
Hello again Nitink

If i may, the trendline would be fine if you were looking to draw traditional trend lines. However, if you are looking to draw a momentum line, you want to be using two peaks, both of which resulted in new price lows. In the example you showed, the first high of the trend line you drew did not result in a new low when prices dropped from it.

best wishes
Be careful what you think because your thoughts run your life..Solomon
  • #9,911
  • Jul 29, 2022 3:10am Jul 29, 2022 3:10am
Quoting pundit78
{quote} I just want to add one thing TP should be decided on the same TF structure based on which trade is taken. {image}
Hello pundit78
Good to meet you and welcome to T.I.O.F

To add to your point, the first exit is usually advised to be on the same timeframe as the entry. Subsequent exits for traders scaling out can then be on higher timeframes

Entries are arrived at through a Top-down approach i.e starting analysis from the high timeframe and working one's way down the timeframes.

Exits on the other hand are determined through a Down-Top approach i.e exiting starting from the entry timeframe and working one's way up the timeframes

best wishes
Be careful what you think because your thoughts run your life..Solomon
  • #9,912
  • Jul 29, 2022 4:14am Jul 29, 2022 4:14am
There is something I would like to share. Don't use any <1H zone created in Asian session if you're not trading AUD, NZD, JPY related pairs. They cannot represent institutional order flow due to low volume.
  • #9,913
  • Jul 29, 2022 7:26am Jul 29, 2022 7:26am
Quoting joe123
{quote} I dont know if there is such a thing as a weak or strong S&D zone. what i do know is price cant move passed a zone without fist consuming those buyers and sellers. you'll get that move either as a retracement in the opposite direction of the trend or in the direction of the trend. your goal is to trade the bounces between supply and demand levels. sometimes you might get price that engulfs (literally) that demand level, which is because its hit a higher timeframe Supply level. so you do have to be careful still at each level that you pick....
theres also this demand that price needs do consume
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Capture 1.PNG Size: 24 KB
Indicators only Indicate, Price action dictates.
  • #9,914
  • Jul 29, 2022 11:57am Jul 29, 2022 11:57am
Quoting ksidd00
Hi I am new to this thread. Does anybody here knows how to contact Stockhouse analytics..I sent him email but he didn't respond. I want to join his course. If anyone here joined him please reply.
Hello ksidd00
Good to meet you
Apologies you didn't get a response but I suspect it may not have gotten to me because it's Storehouseanalytics rather than Stock house analytics

I look forward to hearing from you.

best wishes
Be careful what you think because your thoughts run your life..Solomon
  • #9,915
  • Jul 30, 2022 2:23am Jul 30, 2022 2:23am
Hi Akt,
Sorry for that, i received your reply.
  • #9,916
  • Jul 30, 2022 11:13am Jul 30, 2022 11:13am
@joe123
check skype
  • #9,917
  • Jul 30, 2022 10:42pm Jul 30, 2022 10:42pm
Hey, wondering if anyone could answer the best way to approach your supply and demand zones in terms of entries. Do you plot your zones then trade them blindly? Or do you wait for confirmation? And if so, what is a good way to confirm a change in direction, is it break of previous swing low? With price then failing to get back above then breaking below? There are multiple times you can enter like at the break of structure, or retest of the break of structure, people wait for 2 legged pullbacks as well sometimes too, so just wondering if this all varies based on ones strategy, if so please share your opinions on which you prefer, any help is appreciated.
  • #9,918
  • Jul 31, 2022 12:38am Jul 31, 2022 12:38am
Quoting Akt
{quote} Hello Nitink Good to meet you and welcome to T.I.O.F Many thanks for sharing your trade ideas with the group. Much appreciated. If I may make some observations of the trade ideas please. I took the liberty of attaching a couple of charts looking at the daily charts of the intraday timeframes you posted and discussed some the potential reasons the trades may not have been ideal. Having said that, it is often easy to go back and with hindsight say why a trade may not have worked, but it is important that we do it anyway as part of our deliberate...
Thank you so much Akt, I really appreciate you helping us.
I want to ask one question Regarding AUDUSD D1 chart , what led you to decide that, that area is right place to short, was it weekly time frame factor or something else.
Because if you see daily chart only, then the daily trend is Up, and going against same time frame zones, short is a low probability Trade . What are your thoughts
  • #9,919
  • Aug 2, 2022 8:18am Aug 2, 2022 8:18am
hi guys just recently joined the group any tips or info on how to grow and become a better trader feel free to pass it on, steven.
  • #9,920
  • Aug 3, 2022 9:44pm Aug 3, 2022 9:44pm
Quoting Akt
{quote} Hello pundit78 Good to meet you and welcome to T.I.O.F To add to your point, the first exit is usually advised to be on the same timeframe as the entry. Subsequent exits for traders scaling out can then be on higher timeframes Entries are arrived at through a Top-down approach i.e starting analysis from the high timeframe and working one's way down the timeframes. Exits on the other hand are determined through a Down-Top approach i.e exiting starting from the entry timeframe and working one's way up the timeframes best wishes
Agreed AKT
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