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  • #9,261
  • Jul 12, 2022 1:42pm Jul 12, 2022 1:42pm
Hey, so Im looking for a prop firm that has many many tradeable assets. Take icmarkets, for example. So I need a firm that gives access to more than 300+ assets for my trading needs. Thanks
  • #9,262
  • Edited 1:56pm Jul 12, 2022 1:46pm | Edited 1:56pm
Im running four firms at the moment. Mostly just trading DOW, NAS and SPX. One thing I noticed is E8's commissions are 10x that of TFF's.
MFF and FTMO have zero commissions on Indices.

Examples from today's trades. One is master, the other three are slaves copying identical lot sizes.

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Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #9,263
  • Jul 12, 2022 1:47pm Jul 12, 2022 1:47pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} 18% pass rate on futures is extremely high. Futures in general are way harder to trade due to you having to know more about how liquidity works than in spot/retail fx. It is more likely the pass rate in a futures firm is 1% or less if they offer a paid evaluation model like the retail fx prop firms. I can imagine MFF's traders trying to trade using the ladder..... omg it would be worthy of reality tv.
All this time i thought trading indices was easier than trading forex. I know trading indices using cfds is different from using futures but besides the leverage, i thought futures traders are on average better than forex traders. Maybe i should go back go trading forex after a full year away and only focusing on indices.
  • #9,264
  • Jul 12, 2022 1:56pm Jul 12, 2022 1:56pm
Quoting Inception12
{quote} All this time i thought trading indices was easier than trading forex. I know trading indices using cfds is different from using futures but besides the leverage, i thought futures traders are on average better than forex traders. Maybe i should go back go trading forex after a full year away and only focusing on indices.
I have a Ninja Trader account that I had intended to use exclusively. After years on MT4 platform, NT8 been a bit frustrating for me.

Index CFD's are easy to trade, but I don't trade them like I would FX.

Intraday only and primarily after the Wall Street bell at 9:30 am EST. That's when all the action kicks off. Get in profit, flat by the end of the day.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #9,265
  • Jul 12, 2022 2:14pm Jul 12, 2022 2:14pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} I have a Ninja Trader account that I had intended to use exclusively. After years on MT4 platform, NT8 been a bit frustrating for me. Index CFD's are easy to trade, but I don't trade them like I would FX. Intraday only and primarily after the Wall Street bell at 9:30 am EST. That's when all the action kicks off. Get in profit, flat by the end of the day.
That's how i trade them as well though i use TOS for my charting. 1 trade between 9'30 and 12 and then 1 trade between 1 and 4pm and then am done.
  • #9,266
  • Jul 12, 2022 2:40pm Jul 12, 2022 2:40pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
One thing I noticed is E8's commissions are 10x that of TFF's.
-Wow. There is no way. Totally unacceptable.
  • #9,267
  • Jul 12, 2022 2:50pm Jul 12, 2022 2:50pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
One thing I noticed is E8's commissions are 10x that of TFF's.
-So basically, your profit split is actually around 31%??? Screw that.
  • #9,268
  • Jul 12, 2022 3:12pm Jul 12, 2022 3:12pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-So basically, your profit split is actually around 31%??? Screw that.

Depends on his size tbh but yeh... screw the man, f commissions..

CFD's are really hard to hedge it takes proper experience to do it as a provider of any service, most of the liquidity providers strictly forbid scalping flow. The commission E8 has suggests their provider whoever it is, would accept scalping flow because the cost is high.
  • #9,269
  • Jul 12, 2022 3:22pm Jul 12, 2022 3:22pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-So basically, your profit split is actually around 31%??? Screw that.
From what others have mentioned, apparently they switched providers recently to one with tighter spreads, thereby commissions were added.

To be fair, todays session was a tad sloppy on my part with some unnecessary overtrading. Typical day would be significantly less.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #9,270
  • Jul 12, 2022 3:32pm Jul 12, 2022 3:32pm
Quoting Takisd
Depends on his size tbh but yeh...
-True. But the commission is more than his profit. That's just crazy, especially when you compare it to zero commission that other firms offer. Of course, maybe we can only speculate about what is really happening behind the scenes sometimes. Like how bad does scalping flow have to be in order to justify that? Is this applied to manual scalping, too?
  • #9,271
  • Jul 12, 2022 3:38pm Jul 12, 2022 3:38pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
Im running four firms at the moment. Mostly just trading DOW, NAS and SPX. One thing I noticed is E8's commissions are 10x that of TFF's. MFF and FTMO have zero commissions on Indices. Examples from today's trades. One is master, the other three are slaves copying identical lot sizes. {image}{image}{image}{image}
You're not a noob but anyway I'll ask: the contract size is the same ?
I'm asking this because I noticed that companies have different sizes for when trading 1 lot. Sometimes 1x, sometimes 0.1x.
  • #9,272
  • Jul 12, 2022 3:47pm Jul 12, 2022 3:47pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} You're not a noob but anyway I'll ask: the contract size is the same ? I'm asking this because I noticed that companies have different sizes for when trading 1 lot. Sometimes 1x, sometimes 0.1x.
MFF and FTMO sizing is the same. 1-2 lots for NQ and DOW. 2.5-5 Lots for SPX
E8 and TFF are the same, they are 10x the size so 10-20 lots for NQ and DOW. 25-50 Lots for SPX
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #9,273
  • Jul 12, 2022 4:03pm Jul 12, 2022 4:03pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-True. But the commission is more than his profit. That's just crazy, especially when you compare it to zero commission that other firms offer. Of course, maybe we can only speculate about what is really happening behind the scenes sometimes. Like how bad does scalping flow have to be in order to justify that? Is this applied to manual scalping, too?
I noticed it some days prior and didn’t really give much concern over it. It really is noticeable if there’s a sloppy trading day like today. It’ll really eat into your profits.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #9,274
  • Jul 12, 2022 4:45pm Jul 12, 2022 4:45pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-True. But the commission is more than his profit. That's just crazy, especially when you compare it to zero commission that other firms offer. Of course, maybe we can only speculate about what is really happening behind the scenes sometimes. Like how bad does scalping flow have to be in order to justify that? Is this applied to manual scalping, too?

It applies to all scalping. The reason why CFD's are a pain in the ass is because if you are toxic (scalping flow or heavily profitable) you have two layers to be hedged. The first being broker - > prime then next being Prime -> exchange. You cannot hedge a CFD with a CFD unless someone is willing to take it on the book. Not many people will accept scalping flow on the book because the delay to execute on the hedge is an almost instant loss of alpha.
  • #9,275
  • Jul 12, 2022 8:04pm Jul 12, 2022 8:04pm
So what conclusion can be derived about a firm/broker that charges no commission for trading CFDs?

And what implication (good or bad) does this have for traders?
Amor Fati--F. Nietzsche
  • #9,276
  • Jul 12, 2022 11:21pm Jul 12, 2022 11:21pm
Quoting Takisd
The reason why CFD's are a pain in the ass is because if you are toxic (scalping flow or heavily profitable) you have two layers to be hedged.
-So I guess MFF and FTMO for the win, again. Maybe the question then becomes, what is considered as scalping or how these firms define it.

I personally prefer to scalp because there are fewer surprises and I can get in and out quickly to minimize exposure and mitigate risk better. However, when it comes to these firms, I also prefer to stay under the radar as much as possible.
  • #9,277
  • Jul 13, 2022 12:09am Jul 13, 2022 12:09am
Quoting Cryptosurf
Im running four firms at the moment. Mostly just trading DOW, NAS and SPX. One thing I noticed is E8's commissions are 10x that of TFF's. MFF and FTMO have zero commissions on Indices. Examples from today's trades. One is master, the other three are slaves copying identical lot sizes. {image}{image}{image}{image}
And they charge a $50 commission per lot traded of Bitcoin which is why I only trade the major currency pairs with them.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #9,278
  • Jul 13, 2022 3:59am Jul 13, 2022 3:59am
Quoting Cryptosurf
Im running four firms at the moment. Mostly just trading DOW, NAS and SPX. One thing I noticed is E8's commissions are 10x that of TFF's. MFF and FTMO have zero commissions on Indices. Examples from today's trades. One is master, the other three are slaves copying identical lot sizes. {image}{image}{image}{image}
You keep this up and you're looking at 2Mill+ over a year..
  • #9,279
  • Jul 13, 2022 7:52am Jul 13, 2022 7:52am
I laugh at anyone trading at a prop firm who gets smashed during news and cries about slippage. Back to your McJob .
  • #9,280
  • Jul 13, 2022 7:59am Jul 13, 2022 7:59am
MFF's Discord has been pure comedy since 8:30 est... highly anticipated CPI report release causes market chaos, Dow gaps >200 points and drops market >550 in <5 min... but prop traders expect perfect fills on SLs and demand refunds? lol
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