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  • #8,961
  • Jul 3, 2022 4:11am Jul 3, 2022 4:11am
Quoting navk
{quote} Once, some 6 months ago, I was doing challenge in FTMO. THere was 65 pips slippage in GBPUSD.. I was witness that time. Others made complaint in FF thread. Nothing seems to have been done by FTMO. Infact FTMO on numerous occasions faced this problem.. That was the time, I moved to MFF. Same yard stick applies to every firm. See the new firms will have problems every now and then. We have to deal with that. Surely 65 pips slippage is enough to hit daily violation limit, 5 %. With MFF or TFF, I never faced this issue. Even FT ( Where only...
On MFF I've been experiencing slippage above 4.5 lots.
If I make 5 lots I get slippage. If I do 4.5 lots no slippage.
It can't be a coincidence. I tested this multiple times, all with same result. And this happens, both in funded and in challenges. And both in 100K and 200K.
Not sure if this is general setting or if they have parameters of slippage account driven.
I've been keeping it under 4.5. If I want 6 lots I just trade 3+3 or any other combination instead of 6.
  • #8,962
  • Jul 3, 2022 4:26am Jul 3, 2022 4:26am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} On MFF I've been experiencing slippage above 4.5 lots. If I make 5 lots I get slippage. If I do 4.5 lots no slippage. It can't be a coincidence. I tested this multiple times, all with same result. And this happens, both in funded and in challenges. And both in 100K and 200K. Not sure if this is general setting or if they have parameters of slippage account driven. I've been keeping it under 4.5. If I want 6 lots I just trade 3+3 or any other combination instead of 6.

It depends on what you are trading on why there would be slippage tiers, for example. nzd pairs, there are not 5 lots available per price (normally 0-4 on a good day) same as gbp/jpy and various other pairs.

You are handling how the market works well if you are hitting the market with smaller sizes to lower slippage. Kudos to you.
  • #8,963
  • Jul 3, 2022 6:11am Jul 3, 2022 6:11am
Has anybody tried the CTI day traders challenge? I'm looking at the 25k one. Or does anyone have any experience with this company at all? It all seems quite reasonable, but they're ranked quite low here.

https://www.citytradersimperium.com/...nding-program/

Any feedback appreciated. Thanks.
  • #8,964
  • Jul 3, 2022 7:00am Jul 3, 2022 7:00am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-No signals. You are still making your own trades. You can set up your master account using MT4, then have all of your trades mirrored to your slave accounts, even if they are MT5 accounts. As long as the firm allows copy trading from your own accounts, then it should be fine. You would want to verify that with each firm and get the details of their requirements so that you remain in compliance.
What kind of software can I use this copy trade ?
  • #8,965
  • Jul 3, 2022 7:02am Jul 3, 2022 7:02am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} It depends on what you are trading on why there would be slippage tiers, for example. nzd pairs, there are not 5 lots available per price (normally 0-4 on a good day) same as gbp/jpy and various other pairs. You are handling how the market works well if you are hitting the market with smaller sizes to lower slippage. Kudos to you.
Yes, this is how I trade too.

I take small lots. 0.25 to 1 to 2 lots.

To do Dollar cost averaging.

And never experience slippage in GPUSD. and this is the pair I trade.

To close traded pair in Profit, I use an EA ( All close EA ). Which closes first IN, First OUT basis.

Will have mostly set stop loss for all trades. Especially when the traded lot size is more than 5 lots.
Intraday only.
  • #8,966
  • Jul 3, 2022 7:04am Jul 3, 2022 7:04am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-No signals. You are still making your own trades. You can set up your master account using MT4, then have all of your trades mirrored to your slave accounts, even if they are MT5 accounts. As long as the firm allows copy trading from your own accounts, then it should be fine. You would want to verify that with each firm and get the details of their requirements so that you remain in compliance.
I trade in MFF, TFF.

These are mt4.

To prop trading, I can not copy from MFF, TFF trades and I guess it is prohibited.

If Prop trading has mt4, then i can trade in mt4 and then copy to mt5.

Hope i explained correctly.
Intraday only.
  • #8,967
  • Jul 3, 2022 8:36am Jul 3, 2022 8:36am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} It depends on what you are trading on why there would be slippage tiers, for example. nzd pairs, there are not 5 lots available per price (normally 0-4 on a good day) same as gbp/jpy and various other pairs. You are handling how the market works well if you are hitting the market with smaller sizes to lower slippage. Kudos to you.
Yep, I should have said which pairs. I'm talking about EURUSD, GBPUSD and AUDUSD. All with the same pattern of the 4.5 lots, tested more than once.
For the others I have no experience.
  • #8,968
  • Jul 3, 2022 8:42am Jul 3, 2022 8:42am
Quoting bluepanido
Has anybody tried the CTI day traders challenge? I'm looking at the 25k one. Or does anyone have any experience with this company at all? It all seems quite reasonable, but they're ranked quite low here. https://www.citytradersimperium.com/...nding-program/ Any feedback appreciated. Thanks.
It's bad.
They're asking you 109£ for a 10.000 USD account with drawdown of 125 USD.
Put the 109€ in a forex broker in your name with 500x leverage and you get 100% of the profits for yourself
  • #8,969
  • Jul 3, 2022 9:27am Jul 3, 2022 9:27am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} It's bad. They're asking you 109£ for a 10.000 USD account with drawdown of 125 USD. Put the 109€ in a forex broker in your name with 500x leverage and you get 100% of the profits for yourself
You're an intelligent man.
You can reach me on Telegram @ KramerFx
  • #8,970
  • Jul 3, 2022 9:29am Jul 3, 2022 9:29am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} It's bad. They're asking you 109£ for a 10.000 USD account with drawdown of 125 USD. Put the 109€ in a forex broker in your name with 500x leverage and you get 100% of the profits for yourself
Exactly correct. Along with payouts and trading conditions, value for your money is a top priority. Pretty simple to analyze, how much DD allowed * profit split vs. the fee you pay. Example MFF 200K account.....24K DD, 85% split (max), so essentially a $20,400 account, you pay $979. The deal you speak of, you get $125, I think they are 60% split, so like a $75 account, and you pay like $115 (after exchange rate). Ignore the 25K number, it is completely irrelevant. I could give you a 1 million dollar account, if the DD is 50K, it is a 50K account, with a 60% split it becomes a 30K account. TrAndy has posted a spreadsheet demonstarting the value for your money of each firm over a personal account. It factors in the targets to achieve funding as well, so a true apples to apples as vs. trading the "fee" on your own.
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Scores under 1 all have you paying more than what you are receiving.
  • #8,971
  • Jul 3, 2022 9:36am Jul 3, 2022 9:36am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Exactly correct. Along with payouts and trading conditions, value for your money is a top priority. Pretty simple to analyze, how much DD allowed * profit split vs. the fee you pay. Example MFF 200K account.....24K DD, 85% split (max), so essentially a $20,400 account, you pay $979. The deal you speak of, you get $125, I think they are 60% split, so like a $75 account, and you pay like $115 (after exchange rate). Ignore the 25K number, it is completely irrelevant. I could give you a 1 million dollar account, if the DD is 50K, it is a 50K...
I know 4 of the 5 on the bottom are direct funding like CTI. The rest under 1 I assume are direct funding or ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE challenge models. The true trick in the direct funding marketing is the scaling.....we double you every time you hit 10% or whatever....they are asking that with 4-5% DD. So, in essence, they are asking for a 200% performance to increase you 100%......it is truly "legal theft". After you pay more in fee than what they give you, then they make it appear as if they are giving you even more and it is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE.
  • #8,972
  • Edited 10:09am Jul 3, 2022 9:52am | Edited 10:09am
Was thinking about how FTMO do copy trades or even do reverse copy trades. The main statistical figure that makes sense from the beginning where to look at is the E-Ratio. Edge Ratio or E-Ratio measures how much a trade goes in your favor vs. how much a trade goes against you. So they only need to look for that equation
MAX E-ratio=MFE/MAE. The meaning is, if you enter a trade it goes at once in your direction without drawdown the higher you could leverage it and less risk you have, and then when you exit without giving anything or too much of your profits back, then the prop firm get the right view of the perfect trade. That would be the solution. So the prop firm only needs to do a ranking of all traders with e-ratio as column, the perfect trader has the highest e-ratio, so on a certain level of the e-ratio those traders must be copied to live accounts, because the chance is to high that the trader has an edge and is profitable getting a (huge) payout. Did not find anything better, to measure the proficiency or profitability of any trader with just a single statistical figure. The solution which trader needs to be copied can be so quite easy.
  • #8,973
  • Edited 11:43am Jul 3, 2022 10:27am | Edited 11:43am
Just want to mention that I looked through many various prop firms and their scores. As I can say my list is complete. Any prop firms offering mainly futures as traded instruments you can forget them all, they have much worse scores in relation to other prop firms on my list. Second, if you are looking for any direct funding models, the best one I found is from Finotive Funding, also on my list with an overall higher score than FTMO. All the other direct funding models you can forget them. So we only need to look when there are newcomers, which are then brand new on the market, and then look at their offers, if their score is good together with the conditions.

My filtered prop firm rank tables (do not look further (!), choose from that pool is my suggestion)
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Formula of the expectancy score:
Score = ((Max. Drawdown on a given challenge account)*(profit split percentage)) / ((Euler^((% Profit goal) / ((-) max. allowed Drawdown)))*(challenge fee))

Description:
In words the score expresses the value you got for the fee in multiple times versus having the fee as deposit on a personal live account at your broker of your choice and doing your own compounding. The higher the score the more you get for the fee you spend there on that prop firm. The Euler figure of ~2.72 is the correct figure for analyzing any compounding in finance math. You could also look on Wiki how the Euler figure is constructed itself, but it is not necessary to understand my sheet.
  • #8,974
  • Jul 3, 2022 10:55am Jul 3, 2022 10:55am
Quoting TrAndy1
Just want to mention that I looked through many various prop firms and their scores. As I can say my list is complete. Any prop firms offering mainly futures as traded instruments you can forget them all, they have much worse scores in relation to other prop firms on my list. Second, if you are looking for any direct funding models, the best one I found is from Finotive Funding, also on my list with an overall higher score than FTMO. All the other direct funding models you can forget them. So we only need to look when there are newcomers, which...
Small correction TPT fees increased to 949$ and their lot size restriction is removed.
  • #8,975
  • Jul 3, 2022 11:06am Jul 3, 2022 11:06am
Quoting TrAndy1
Just want to mention that I looked through many various prop firms and their scores. As I can say my list is complete. Any prop firms offering mainly futures as traded instruments you can forget them all, they have much worse scores in relation to other prop firms on my list. Second, if you are looking for any direct funding models, the best one I found is from Finotive Funding, also on my list with an overall higher score than FTMO. All the other direct funding models you can forget them. So we only need to look when there are newcomers, which...


FundedTradingPlus has an experienced program which has 6% max dd with 10% target but is only 1 stage. DD sounds negative but actually in a scenario where you risk 10% of max dd per trade to make, lets say, 5:1 reward:risk - it ends up you need 3.33 net winning days to pass. On other 2 stage challenges with this same scenario you need 2 new winning days in stage 1 and 1 in stage 2 = 3 net winning days. It ends up being very similar, and having 1 stage may have advantages with letting winners run instead of breaking up into 2 stages which seperates.

The reason I ask about them is they also have scaling model which is double account size every 10% up to 2.5M which I find attractive and, I think, gives extra points as a prop (assuming they actually pay and scale as they claim) . They do have trailing max dd but it is based on end of day profits which for me isn't terrible like those futures funders. For traders who can make 10% every 2 months for example, they can scale from 200k to 2.5M in 8 months.

Same with Traders Central Fund in terms of scaling up to 2M, but no trailing dd and they are 2 stages. Any thoughts on these models?

Thanks
Plan your trade, trade your plan
  • #8,976
  • Jul 3, 2022 11:49am Jul 3, 2022 11:49am
Quoting TrAndy1
Just want to mention that I looked through many various prop firms and their scores. As I can say my list is complete. Any prop firms offering mainly futures as traded instruments you can forget them all, they have much worse scores in relation to other prop firms on my list. Second, if you are looking for any direct funding models, the best one I found is from Finotive Funding, also on my list with an overall higher score than FTMO. All the other direct funding models you can forget them. So we only need to look when there are newcomers, which...
Anyone new to the prop space, this is priceless info. It is what I/we have been conveying for months, laid out in a clear, concise manner with undisputable math to back it up. Thanks again TrAndy.
  • #8,977
  • Jul 3, 2022 12:17pm Jul 3, 2022 12:17pm
Quoting TrAndy1
Just want to mention that I looked through many various prop firms and their scores. As I can say my list is complete. Any prop firms offering mainly futures as traded instruments you can forget them all, they have much worse scores in relation to other prop firms on my list. Second, if you are looking for any direct funding models, the best one I found is from Finotive Funding, also on my list with an overall higher score than FTMO. All the other direct funding models you can forget them. So we only need to look when there are newcomers, which...
Thank you. Is very good but as Navk said, people need to take into account trading conditions. For instance, 60% or more traders are mainly trading Gold. E8 are very poor for spread and charging over $9 commission per lot which is more then bad. It is a rip-off.
Reason of course is to make big profits from traders at Funded stage. Good for E8 but very bad for scalpers
  • #8,978
  • Jul 3, 2022 12:30pm Jul 3, 2022 12:30pm
Quoting Bizziebee
{quote} Thank you. Is very good but as Navk said, people need to take into account trading conditions. For instance, 60% or more traders are mainly trading Gold. E8 are very poor for spread and charging over $9 commission per lot which is more then bad. It is a rip-off. Reason of course is to make big profits from traders at Funded stage. Good for E8 but very bad for scalpers
Of course, any hidden rules or trading conditions are not considered in my ranking tables, because they just cannot easily measured in a single score. For example TFF is offering best spreads on crypto as I know so far (not 100% sure), with only about $6 for BTC. All in all it depends very much on your trading style and also on the instruments you trade. So my tables are a first orientation, then everyone needs to look further on any prop, about their max daily loss rule, spreads, other rules, etc.
  • #8,979
  • Jul 3, 2022 1:17pm Jul 3, 2022 1:17pm
Attached is a breakdown of a few firms and their max allocation/scaling plans compared, if useful for anyone looking at options to scale. Let me know if anything missing or incorrect.

Thanks
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Plan your trade, trade your plan
  • #8,980
  • Jul 3, 2022 1:27pm Jul 3, 2022 1:27pm
Quoting symmtrytradr
Attached is a breakdown of a few firms and their max allocation/scaling plans compared, if useful for anyone looking at options to scale. Let me know if anything missing or incorrect. Thanks {image}


*This is based on claims on the firms websites, I don't have experience scaling with them to confirm any of the info*
Plan your trade, trade your plan
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