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When Should You Give Up On Trading?

  • #61
  • Jun 25, 2022 4:08am Jun 25, 2022 4:08am
Quoting Breza
This is a big money industry. Traders lose 99.xx%, just look at the Top rank here at FF with public TE at each end of the year, sadly. Traders will become mostly good traders in 3 to 7 years of experience and learning, but they will continue to lose. The explanation for the paradox is in the unrealistic expectations to which they are "forced" into due to lack of capital, and of course greed for great success, and that without anyone's supervision. 10-25% of the profit per year is an exceptional, brilliant success for an institutional trader, he...
see: https://forex-station.com/viewtopic....22#p1295481222
Quote:
"now I can say with confidence and surety that I will be successful EVERY time I trade"
  • #62
  • Jun 25, 2022 11:14am Jun 25, 2022 11:14am
I would give up trading if there are other options made available to me.

Trading might be the hardest job in the world, but it is not the only job that allow you to make money effortlessly (when mastered).
If u luv happiness, start w/ discomfort, make friends w/ pain and failure.
100 Hits 0 Miss All Time Return: 35.8%
  • #63
  • Jun 25, 2022 11:49am Jun 25, 2022 11:49am
Quoting Pat Chiko
This is probably a stage where many people have reached, and it’s a stage where many people have actually quit trading Forex. It’s very easy to get to that stage and to say, “look, I’ve tried everything, I’ve put all this time, this effort and this money into doing my best I can to try and learn how to trade, but it’s just not working for me”. I reached that stage after about two years and I kind of felt I was going around in circles which is something I’m sure you can relate to if you’ve been trading for a couple of years. So when I reached those...
Would you like to learn from me?
You can reach me on Telegram @ KramerFx
  • #64
  • Jun 25, 2022 12:02pm Jun 25, 2022 12:02pm
Quoting KramerFx
{quote} Would you like to learn from me?
yes
If u luv happiness, start w/ discomfort, make friends w/ pain and failure.
100 Hits 0 Miss All Time Return: 35.8%
  • #65
  • Jun 25, 2022 12:06pm Jun 25, 2022 12:06pm
Quoting FXSayWhat
{quote} yes
You hit 1000% on 8 trades, you are better than me.
You can reach me on Telegram @ KramerFx
  • #66
  • Jun 25, 2022 12:33pm Jun 25, 2022 12:33pm
Quoting Pat Chiko
This is probably a stage where many people have reached, and it’s a stage where many people have actually quit trading Forex. It’s very easy to get to that stage and to say, “look, I’ve tried everything, I’ve put all this time, this effort and this money into doing my best I can to try and learn how to trade, but it’s just not working for me”. I reached that stage after about two years and I kind of felt I was going around in circles which is something I’m sure you can relate to if you’ve been trading for a couple of years. So when I reached those...

Everything is hard before it's easy. most people quit a lot of things because it's hard in the beginning. Learning an instrument, playing a sport, maintaining fitness etc.

The only people who become good traders are the people crazy enough to keep trying until they figure it out. trade small when you have time. and trade the larger time frames. this will increase your engagement in the market without the need to dedicate your life to the screens. swap what doesn't work for new ideas and eventually you'll be able to break even.
  • #67
  • Jun 25, 2022 4:58pm Jun 25, 2022 4:58pm
Quoting qp2
{quote} Welcome back.
thx sir, hope all has been well with you
looks like not much has changed around here
  • #68
  • Jun 25, 2022 5:04pm Jun 25, 2022 5:04pm
I think it's all been said. I'll just add my own opinion on the matter - it'll increase my post count - lol.

I said this in the thread I started. You go in for an interview and you're asked - where do you see yourself in 3-5 years?

People get into trading to make money. Some (most?) think it's a "get rich quick" scheme. It takes people different timeframes to learn. Some persons may learn in a week while others need 2-3 years. Our brains work differently.

Figure out what works for you. If you can't be honest with yourself - get help from a friend/relative to give it to you straight on how you are as a person. Then dive in.

Give yourself some estimated times.

  1. 3 months to learn.
  2. 3 months on demo.
  3. 3 months on a small live account.

That should give you at least 9 months. You can stretch that out to 1 year if you want so you can trade different market conditions through the year. Once you've learned, purchased, developed or figured out a trading system/style then you go for 1-2 years live. Small or large account - but start with an amount that you're willing to lose. Be CONSISTENT for at least 3 months on your live account - then move to a larger amount.

If you find that 2-3 years has passed and you're not ahead - start the detox process and get out. If you need to feed the addiction then trade demo. But you need to let go if you're not ahead.

Whatever the external factors are - work - family - friends - lifestyle - don't let those be your excuse. If you want it you'll make the sacrifice for it.

I posted my story in the thread I started. I'm personally giving myself another 2 years after all the start/stop that happened. If I can't be consistently ahead in that time then I'm getting out. I lost my father - it messed with my psychology during and after the fact. Life goes on. Harsh? Truth. Your bills don't care. The market doesn't care. One thing I'll tell you for sure that trading will do for you - it will teach you more about yourself. I realize that emotional things will affect my decisions. I've since learned to either curb that and compartmentalize, or stay off the charts until my head is back straight.

You need to learn about yourself on the journey and have your cut-off point defined. Stick to your rules. Learn more as you go along. If you happen to find someone who's willing to teach you - go with it.

@KramerFX & @FXSayWhat - I don't know if it's sarcasm, jest or just being cheeky. But me? Doesn't matter if I make more than you do - I still want to learn how you go about it. Maybe there's some insight that can be added to my arsenal. Maybe we can learn from each other. But that will take time as well - you'd have to approach it with an open mind and give the other person time to do what they do - without your input.

Anyways - that's it. Bad habit of long posts. Keep safe everyone.

  • #69
  • Jun 25, 2022 5:35pm Jun 25, 2022 5:35pm
Quoting Pat Chiko
This is probably a stage where many people have reached, and it’s a stage where many people have actually quit trading Forex. It’s very easy to get to that stage and to say, “look, I’ve tried everything, I’ve put all this time, this effort and this money into doing my best I can to try and learn how to trade, but it’s just not working for me”. I reached that stage after about two years and I kind of felt I was going around in circles which is something I’m sure you can relate to if you’ve been trading for a couple of years. So when I reached those...

Depends on who we are talking about. We need to separate the gamblers that get a thrill from trading and the guy that wants to make some spare change at trading. "Traders" in it for the gambling thrill will never quit....its more satisfying to a gambler to open an account and trade for months before losing his money than losing the same amount on a couple rolls of the dice or horse races or soccer matches
short trump and go long the deepstate
  • #70
  • Jun 26, 2022 2:06am Jun 26, 2022 2:06am
Quoting hanover
can speak only for self lost much of my enthusiasm in jan 2015 when alpari uk went broke and entire account was fubar'd in a instant and i didn't even have any open positions lucky it was only a small account but to make worthwhile income must take same type of risk with larger account friend of mine wasnt so lucky lost 6 digits when halifax folded made me aware there are risks that trader has no control of mitigate this risk by ensuring broker keeps funds in segregated account with large reputable bank and use leverage to leave minimum amt in account...
GD Hanover; You remain a Diamond that is more Luminescent than Reflective. Thank you for your Service Sir David! Of Aotearoa? You have more than earned the right to maintain the Weight you choose and occupy the Space you desire.

Not seeing the 2nd of the 2 reasons yet.. Will be waiting(just in case). In the mean time: Did you ever code an Inside Bar EA, if so, it could be the capstone to the arch of my current project. Would be a blessing to have access thereto.

For the initiator of the thread: IMHO. when you have decided that you will not rise from the last fall and leaving has become preferable to staying. I have those quite often, Since my begging in 2007. But I have managed to keep picking myself up and keep moving towards sustained profitability. Yet to have a profitable year but I am a better trader, focusing on automation as I am standing in my way. My Passion to succeed as others have and where others have not, as well as my faith in my Lord and Saviour Jesus the Christ has been my ROCK.. reasons to remain.

It is ok to take a break and if you still have the passion, you will return without knowing it. If you do not, you will not notice that you missed the old battles.

God's Speed in your journey. I have remained in his (God's) strength, not mine: That made all the difference..



Bless! and Be Blessed.
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  • #71
  • Jun 26, 2022 7:08am Jun 26, 2022 7:08am
Some familiar images circulating in FF.... I simply hate them! This is a total nonsense.

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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
  • #72
  • Jun 26, 2022 11:46am Jun 26, 2022 11:46am
What helped me were so many things, like to stop expecting, stop having goals, especially %Return goals! STOP trying to make a cent! Concentrate on strategy development only, trial and error, learning with every step, scientifically, leaving no blurry lines, ever. Till you know 100% what is possible during a LONG period of time, and all the while knowing what could happen AND factoring in the many scenarios that have still not happened. Focusing on consistency throughout the years, the best return/drawdown I could get. Not days, not weeks, not months, not a couple of years, but 15+years(through which a lot of changes happen in price movement!), with 10000s of trades, 100% mechanical, that leave NO place for discretion whatsoever. There are many ways to make an omelet, but for me, it took not one, but MANY complementing strategies to get there. That takes a lot of work. And once the work has been done, and the knowledge was there, then my mm could be optimized accordingly, varying from strategy to strategy, but also globally. To my great surprise, that was actually just as hard to figure out than the strategies themselves ! But I wasnt alone. Word of advice, get yourself a statistician friend! At least I got a lot of help for mine! There was not one strategy that I developed that did not have to be changes after going through my friends' analysis.

P.S I dont pretend to know what is and what is not possible. But in my own limited experience(I am only one trader after all, one in so many!) and what I have witnessed throughout the years, the "simple" approach does not survive on the long-term. So my answer the this thread's question would be, if you are not willing to do the enormous necessary work, or cant get rid of any kind of expectation, or are trading at all other than cent account without having done the hard work and knowing exactly what to do and when, no matter what the market does, or have tunnel vision focused on arbitrarily grabbing strategies on the web and leaving it at that, without developing your own, (and other things but this post is long enough,) then I would sadly say that I believe it is time to find something else.

PSS I wish the best to you all who are reading, in all of your trading adventures! and sorry for the usual rambling !
If I don't mention SL and/or TP = longer-term setup possibly in the works!
  • #73
  • Jun 26, 2022 12:01pm Jun 26, 2022 12:01pm
Quoting Pat Chiko
This is probably a stage where many people have reached, and it’s a stage where many people have actually quit trading Forex. It’s very easy to get to that stage and to say, “look, I’ve tried everything, I’ve put all this time, this effort and this money into doing my best I can to try and learn how to trade, but it’s just not working for me”. I reached that stage after about two years and I kind of felt I was going around in circles which is something I’m sure you can relate to if you’ve been trading for a couple of years. So when I reached those...
Hey Pat
I joined FF 1 year before you. This is my "3rd" time in the Forex Market as I tried from 2007 until 2009 and lost $ during those 2 years.

Fast forward to 2014 - Class at Apiary Fund - 12 months of training - 3 years of work and $1000.00 to show for it.

Fast forward to 2020 - Lockdown prevents me from running my business so I went back to trading - This time my account is 3X what I started with and I've switched trading styles drastically since 2007.

So what's different NOW vs. my prior two 2) attempts at trading Forex?

1. Familiarity - My first time trading was me attempting to apply my trading in futures markets and stock markets to Forex - did NOT work for me. Very confusing and costly

2. My 2nd attempt involved Forex trading and I have to admit the Apiary program was very well done. Very basic with chances to learn/evolve more. My #1 problem was I got enamoured with their lead trader and kept attempting to copy his trading style (with is 100% opposite EVERYTHING they teach) and it resulted in frustration and frankly a waste of my time.

3. NOW I take more time before trading. I plan trades much more with profit targets and R:R that are 3:1 or greater. My biggest change was EXPECTATIONS and FREQUENCY. I've come to learn that even through I plan on making $XXX.XX dollars a week it doesn't have to happen each and every day. The BIGGEST lesson that I learned is this - I DON'T HAVE TO TRADER EVERY DAY!!!!!

I could go on and on but I don't want to hijack this so I'll say it as simply as I can: TENACITY/ACCESS/MONEY/TIME

In MY case I needed this 4 factors in the right combination so that now I withdraw $ from my account instead of constantly depositing.
...because you never know - until you do!
  • #74
  • Jun 26, 2022 12:33pm Jun 26, 2022 12:33pm
Quoting Oliver.Twist
When should you give up on trading? The most reasonable answer or advice to give any trader, is: As soon as possible. Doesn't sound too glamorous, but given the exceedingly high failure rate (at least, to reach a level where you can consistently and confidently sustain yourself with your trading, which is the goal of the majority at the start of the trading journey), it actually makes sense. If it can avoid years of pain, financial losses, emotional torment, conflicts in your relationships, etc.., it might not be a bad thing. Plus, all the opportunity...
So much excellent points on this thread and post, thank you s Pat for it! I doubt I can add anything else of value, but If emotions are driving you, stop. Trade the minimum cent account and feel your emotions go down a bit or completely and do this as you learn, trade mechanically, and never look at the $ thanks to nano lots. Just focus on price relation to what you have learned or are learning, and never stop learning and working on getting rid of emotions once and for all(all traders I personally know act on their knowledge and experience, never on emotion because the emotions are no longer there as they are no gamblers, and actually know what they are doing and will do with confidence and no matter what the price does), focus on skills instead... If you are doing about the same thing you did when you lost after months of trading, stop, that is gambling and you wont be lucky consistently. If you think risking big blindly and repetitively will lead you to a eureka moment, you are doubly blind. All easier said than done, but without it....
If I don't mention SL and/or TP = longer-term setup possibly in the works!
  • #75
  • Jun 26, 2022 12:48pm Jun 26, 2022 12:48pm
Sometimes it's better to Give up
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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https://breakpullback.com
  • #76
  • Jun 26, 2022 12:54pm Jun 26, 2022 12:54pm
Quoting eyefeelsix
Sometimes it's better to Give up {image}


Agreed. That's why I said 3-5 years. You can do less or more depending on who you are as an individual. But that's for you to know, or learn while learning trading.
  • #77
  • Jun 26, 2022 1:15pm Jun 26, 2022 1:15pm
Quoting khat17
{quote} Agreed. That's why I said 3-5 years. You can do less or more depending on who you are as an individual. But that's for you to know, or learn while learning trading.
Have we noticed that almost 95% of traders blow their accounts with the same way? yes they know but they don't care.

--- that's the problem of human, stubborn ( talk to my self )
https://breakpullback.com
  • #78
  • Jun 26, 2022 1:25pm Jun 26, 2022 1:25pm
Quoting eyefeelsix
{quote} Have we noticed that almost 95% of traders blow their accounts with the same way? yes they know but they don't care. --- that's the problem of human, stubborn ( talk to my self )
I actually find your humility to be a great quality for success especially in trading. But concerning this "high percentage of traders fail" I do not agree. I that high % it is mostly gamblers or learners that have not realized that they are not traders yet, that they still have much to learn to get there. For me, a trader makes a living out of trading, period. Can we call a lottery winner an employee? yes, I know, I go out of my way to make a point in the most unclear way.
If I don't mention SL and/or TP = longer-term setup possibly in the works!
  • #79
  • Jun 26, 2022 1:55pm Jun 26, 2022 1:55pm
Quoting mtako
{quote} I actually find your humility to be a great quality for success especially in trading. But concerning this "high percentage of traders fail" I do not agree. I that high % it is mostly gamblers or learners that have not realized that they are not traders yet, that they still have much to learn to get there. For me, a trader makes a living out of trading, period. Can we call a lottery winner an employee? yes, I know, I go out of my way to make a point in the most unclear way.
I dare not say that one and I totally agree with you "a trader makes a living out of trading" and that's we now btw
https://breakpullback.com
  • #80
  • Jun 26, 2022 2:41pm Jun 26, 2022 2:41pm
Quoting pathumracled
Did you ever code an Inside Bar EA, if so, it could be the capstone to the arch of my current project. Would be a blessing to have access thereto.
i been away from mt for several months, best I can do is suggest google
this guy writes write both commercial and free indikators
inside bar is free you could give it a try
https://www.pointzero-trading.com/en...w/PZInsideBars
google finds lots more
my good friend enzo ask me why i return here after spending time in fx rehab and risk reopening old wounds
he is right so no more replies from me now
bless you sir, thx for the kind words, good luck in all of your endeavors
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