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  • #8,261
  • May 29, 2022 1:39pm May 29, 2022 1:39pm
Quoting CableJ
Fidelcrest wants you to do 100% on drawdown in 30 days and then another 200% in 60 days? Crazy! So traders will have to over risk to pass Phase 1 and then again over a longer time period in phase 2... If only 2-3% get to funded status @ MFF requiring 8%+5% with 12% drawdown, I would love to see the numbers on 10% with 10% drawdown then 10% with 5% drawdown.
I wish they could breakdown these pass/fail stats by years of experience. I bet it would shed a completely different story. All these naysayers with the 99% fail rate......99% of new traders fail as well. Most give up after 6 months or so due to lack of patience and discipline. However, I'd lay pretty good odds that those with 5+ years experience have a much higher success rate.......just like trading one's own account.
  • #8,262
  • May 29, 2022 3:28pm May 29, 2022 3:28pm
Quoting Capablanca
If someone has an old funded account with The Funded Trader, still with PurpleTrading broker, I suggest you pay attention to your email because they're replacing them with 8Cap funded account during this weekend.
-This is interesting. I wonder if this will allow them to remove some of their bogus restrictions.

Quoting jasjit
Hi to all, Anyone have a list of prop firms that do not have a Daily Limit on drawdown? Thanks in advance.
-Blue Edge Funding did, but their funding operation is currently on hold because their backer (Trader's Central) kept causing their clients to have many problems with their review team and other nonsense. They are supposed to be looking for new backers to restart the program in the future, but I was told that it could be 6 months or longer, and that it was not a priority at the moment.

Aside from that, as mentioned a few posts back, the 5%er's offer a freestyle program with a fixed, overall draw-down.

There are other options that do not have a daily draw-down limit, but they are not good for one reason or another, especially the direct-funding models.

Alternatively, there are some traditional models that offer larger account sizes, that would afford you more daily draw-down.

Quoting Tim_isoara
What about Fidelcrest? they have 1.000.000 usd account. Why Fiedelcrest is not in top 5? They have issue?
-This is interesting. I need to investigate. Thanks for sharing.
  • #8,263
  • May 29, 2022 5:57pm May 29, 2022 5:57pm
So I looked more into the Fidelcrest offering. It looks like a potentially good option for those looking for a larger account (with possible, free, back-up account), although, there are some annoying caveats regarding copy-trading and account merging. There is also a minimum trading days requirement.

(Me) 05:19 PM
I have a question regarding your 500K aggressive account. I would like to know if you have any restrictions regarding scalping? For example, are traders required to keep trades open for a minimum of 30 seconds etc.?

(Fidelcrest - Xavier) 05:20 PM
No rule about that.

(Me) 05:20 PM
Thanks.
I would also like to know, regarding the 'double-your-capital' bonus, when does this doubling occur? Your website states that the additional account is given upon successful completion of the Phase 3 Trading Period. What does this mean, exactly? Does this simply mean that the trader will receive the additional account following 30-days of trading on their funded account, so long as they do not violate the draw-down limits? Or does the trader need to trade for a year, as stated per your scaling plan?

(Fidelcrest - Xavier) 05:21 PM
Double your capital – you can claim a second account of the same size and type when you pass your first Phase 3 Trading Period.

(Me) 05:22 PM
Yes, but what does this mean, exactly? How long is the Phase 3 Trading Period? 30-days? 1-year?

(Fidelcrest - Xavier) 05:23 PM
You can finish it in 10 days minimum and request the payout.

(Me) 05:23 PM
Are there any profit targets or other requirements for the Phase 3 Trading Period?

(Fidelcrest - Xavier) 05:24 PM
There is no profit target.

(Me) 05:35 PM
If a trader elects to use the double-your-account bonus, can he/she merge the accounts into one account?

(Fidelcrest - Xavier) 05:35 PM
No, merging is not possible.

(Me) 05:35 PM
Really? Why not?

(Fidelcrest - Xavier) 05:36 PM
Risk team decisions.

(Me) 05:36 PM
But a trader can use a trade copier between the accounts, then?

(Fidelcrest - Xavier) 05:38 PM
No, copy trading is not allowed between own accounts.

(Me) 05:39 PM
Too bad. That should probably be outlined clearly on your website, as many traders that choose that bonus may be upset upon finding out, after the fact.

(Me) 05:39 PM
Is there a minimum trading days requirement for funded accounts? For example, must traders trade for at least 10-days per month in order to keep their account(s) active?

(Fidelcrest - Xavier) 05:41 PM
3.2.1 Traders may not use any EA's, scripts or robots unless Fidelcrest Trading Challenge Risk Team has granted
such exception. Nor may traders engage in copy trades or following other traders' entry and exit signals, including
their own Fidelcrest accounts. Fidelcrest shall have the right to deem that Traders coordinate or copy their trades if
several trades with the same instruments in the same direction are made within one minute of each other. In addition,
if the same trade is taken on trader's any other Fidelcrest account, there must be at least 1 minute difference between
the entries – failing to comply with this rule will result in termination of all Fidelcrest accounts owned by the trader. All
trades must be based on the trader's own analysis and decisions.
Minimum trading days: To meet this objective you must reach at least a minimum amount of trading (business) days
during the challenge and verification periods. At least one position must be opened on each of these days. Also, it is
prohibited to open abnormally small trades just to meet with the Minimum Trading Days requirement after reaching
profit target earlier.
A trading day means a day when at least one trade is executed.
If a trade is held over multiple days, the day when the trade was executed is considered as the trading day.
Minimum trading days rule is for all phases.

(Me) 05:43 PM
Where does it state that minimum trading days is required for fully-funded accounts?
Can you show me that, please?

(Fidelcrest - Xavier) 05:46 PM
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(Me) 05:47 PM
That is for Phase 3, for the bonus requirement. What about for Phase 4 and beyond?

(Fidelcrest - Xavier) 05:50 PM
There are no more phases.

(Me) 05:50 PM
Okay. Thank you very much.
Have a great day.
  • #8,264
  • May 29, 2022 6:09pm May 29, 2022 6:09pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-This is interesting. I wonder if this will allow them to remove some of their bogus restrictions. {quote}-Blue Edge Funding did, but their funding operation is currently on hold because their backer (Trader's Central) kept causing their clients to have many problems with their review team and other nonsense. They are supposed to be looking for new backers to restart the program in the future, but I was told that it could be 6 months or longer, and that it was not a priority at the moment. Aside from that, as mentioned a few posts back, the...
Also there is a clause somewhere, they will consider mean of both phases for lot size rule you can't deviate 25% up or down. So lets say you have mean of 1 lot on both phases, on live your lot size can be between 0.75 to 1.25. Wierd part is you can have 100 individual lots within that range but if it is out of range you violate rule.
  • #8,265
  • May 29, 2022 7:13pm May 29, 2022 7:13pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I wish they could breakdown these pass/fail stats by years of experience. I bet it would shed a completely different story. All these naysayers with the 99% fail rate......99% of new traders fail as well. Most give up after 6 months or so due to lack of patience and discipline. However, I'd lay pretty good odds that those with 5+ years experience have a much higher success rate.......just like trading one's own account.
That is true... at the very least, those with experience would have significantly less blown accounts from pure clownish trading behavior due to having a full understanding of risk management and when to avoid trading (ex. 4:55-7pm est & near major report releases). That being said, I still believe a relatively small % would be able to pass... uncooperative market, profitable system simply unable to produce >60% returns on draw down in 20 trading days @ normal risk levels ect.
  • #8,266
  • May 29, 2022 8:46pm May 29, 2022 8:46pm
Quoting sampat
there is a clause somewhere, they will consider mean of both phases for lot size rule you can't deviate 25% up or down. So lets say you have mean of 1 lot on both phases, on live your lot size can be between 0.75 to 1.25. Wierd part is you can have 100 individual lots within that range but if it is out of range you violate rule.
-Thank you for mentioning this. Unfortunately, yet another thing that does not seem to be published (or easily accessible) on their website.

I contacted support about it:

(Me) 08:25 PM
Someone made a comment on ForexFactory, and I would like to know if there is any truth to it (regarding the new, aggressive accounts):

"Also there is a clause somewhere, they will consider mean of both phases for lot size rule you can't deviate 25% up or down. So lets say you have mean of 1 lot on both phases, on live your lot size can be between 0.75 to 1.25. Wierd part is you can have 100 individual lots within that range but if it is out of range you violate rule."

(Fidelcrest - Jun) 08:26 PM
Can I know when was this posted?

(Me) 08:26 PM
Today.

(Fidelcrest - Jun) 08:27 PM
There is no lot size limit in phase 1 and 2, however you must be consistent and trade according to your strategy and plan. In phase 3 you will be given a lot size range based on your phase 1 and 2 trades, and you will have to keep within that range.

(Me) 08:28 PM
Why would you do this?

(Fidelcrest - Jun) 08:28 PM
This is to refrain traders from using huge lots to gamble/hope they get lucky then place 0.01 lots just to get rid of other rules.
We are not looking for gamblers or traders that pray for luck
We are looking for serious traders who have proper risk management and can trader well.

(Me) 08:29 PM
My issue with this, is that, as a real trader, I have no intention on trading with the same risk level as would be required of me during the challenges. This will force traders to use higher risk on their live account, thus compromising it.

(Fidelcrest - Jun) 08:32 PM
We do not intend to restrict you to trade with the same risk level. CFDs and Forex/Metals have their own respective lot range.
You have +/-30% your median lot sizes in Phase 1 and 2.
So you can increase risk by 30% of decrease by 30%

(Me) 08:33 PM
You are restricting traders by forcing them to use more risk that they normally would for that account size given.

(Fidelcrest - Jun) 08:33 PM
We take the median lot size that the trader uses.
Unless some traders who like to place 100 lots then end with 0.01 lots, their median lot size will be messed up.
The median lot size is purely based on the trader's previous trading risks.

(Me) 08:34 PM
On a 500K aggressive account, your expectation is 10% profit target, with 50K draw-down allowance. That means, in actuality, you are expecting traders to flip their account. Not only once, but twice. The kind of risk involved in order to do that within 30 days is very excessive. I accept that. However, to force me to use similar (within 30%) lot sizes on my live account is irresponsible and contradicts your intention to seek out professional traders that practice good risk-management.

(Fidelcrest - Jun) 08:35 PM
This rule was made in place to prevent any gambling traders.

(Me) 08:35 PM
But it restricts responsible traders, also.

(Fidelcrest - Jun) 08:35 PM
Like previously stated, many like to place 100 lots, earn huge profits then just enter 0.01 lots just to avoid rules.
Responsible traders who can manage risk well can reduce risk by reducing lot sizes + reduce their risk ratio to reward as well.

(Me) 08:36 PM
The rule should be that traders are not allowed to trade over their average lot size on their funded account. There should be no limitation on the size if it is below their average.
Please change this rule.

(Fidelcrest - Jun) 08:37 PM
Sorry but this program was designed by the company. I am in no authority to change it.
I will relay your feedback to the team/
team.

(Me) 08:37 PM
Can you please forward this on to someone in charge, then?
Thank you.

I cannot accept this challenge with this kind of rule in place.
Thank you for taking the time. I appreciate it. Have a nice day.

(Fidelcrest - Jun) 08:37 PM
No problem. You too!
  • #8,267
  • May 29, 2022 10:32pm May 29, 2022 10:32pm
Quoting Eren10
{quote} What is their spread levels? I thought that EURUSD was about 1.05 pips ( with the commission), which is on the high side. Their scaling plan is really bad. They want 80 % of your 10 % profit for the scaling.
TTT Spreads (a few).
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Masterrmind ..........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #8,268
  • May 29, 2022 11:02pm May 29, 2022 11:02pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}(Me) 08:37 PM Can you please forward this on to someone in charge, then? Thank you. I cannot accept this challenge with this kind of rule in place. Thank you for taking the time. I appreciate it. Have a nice day. (Fidelcrest - Jun) 08:37 PM No problem. You too!
Why in the world would a prop firm not want you to use LESS RISK with their real funds on the line? Are they delusional enough to think good traders can easily flip accounts using responsible risk levels? Sounds like they have a well thought out plan in place solely for their eventual benefit. if 30 days of higher risk doesn't get you, how about 60 days of higher risk... you still alive? Well, now try that same risk for another 30 days.
  • #8,269
  • May 29, 2022 11:26pm May 29, 2022 11:26pm
Quoting CableJ
Why in the world would a prop firm not want you to use LESS RISK with their real funds on the line?
-Good question.

Quoting CableJ
Sounds like they have a well thought out plan in place solely for their eventual benefit. if 30 days of higher risk doesn't get you, how about 60 days of higher risk... you still alive? Well, now try that same risk for another 30 days.
-Unfortunately, as things are, that is the way that it seems at the moment.

Quoting CableJ
you still alive? Well, now try that same risk for another 30 days.
-Technically, the lot size range is applied indefinitely.

I surely hope that they revisit this. I cannot imagine that they have thought this out fully. One possibility is that their support teams are misinformed.
  • #8,270
  • May 30, 2022 12:49am May 30, 2022 12:49am
Quoting CableJ
Fidelcrest wants you to do 100% on drawdown in 30 days and then another 200% in 60 days? Crazy! So traders will have to over risk to pass Phase 1 and then again over a longer time period in phase 2... If only 2-3% get to funded status @ MFF requiring 8%+5% with 12% drawdown, I would love to see the numbers on 10% with 10% drawdown then 10% with 5% drawdown.
Yes there are certainly better options out there.

Yet again it is an option albeit a difficult one.

Not dissimilar to the XLTrade challenge in terms of difficulty or as you say, craziness!

In any case, backburner material at best.

Masterrmind .............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #8,271
  • May 30, 2022 2:00am May 30, 2022 2:00am
Quoting fxfast
{quote} The5ers has no daily drawdown "limit" on freestyle program. Give it a try. They have a fixed dd.
Thank you
  • #8,272
  • May 30, 2022 4:43am May 30, 2022 4:43am
TenTopTraders Recovery Account.

Recall, I recently took on a $100K challenge with this firm that went 'bust' at a fee of US$240 (or AUD$340 at the time).

I posted a TE to track my recovery efforts and I'm pleased to say that after several trades the fee has now been recovered in full via personal trading on a $1K start.
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ps. note that recovery efforts by my bank are ongoing.
pps. the extra $4.73 was profit made as part of the recovery process via a different account.

Onward and upward.

Masterrmind...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #8,273
  • May 30, 2022 5:02am May 30, 2022 5:02am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} TTT Spreads (a few). {image}Masterrmind ..........

With another propfirm I used eightcap. I noticed that at pc MT4 platform the spreads were higher, eurusd was around 1pip, than at the phone mt4 app. I noticed this late.

If you use MT4 on your pc can you check if the spreads are the same.
  • #8,274
  • May 30, 2022 5:37am May 30, 2022 5:37am
Quoting Eren10
{quote} With another propfirm I used eightcap. I noticed that at pc MT4 platform the spreads were higher, eurusd was around 1pip, than at the phone mt4 app. I noticed this late. If you use MT4 on your pc can you check if the spreads are the same.
8 Cap Real accounts are about a pip higher due in part to no commission being charged as an example EU hovers around 1.1 pips.

8Cap demo is tight as with EU about 0.1 pips!

It is not related to MT4 App vs. MT4 PC as they are the same for the same server.

Masterrmind ...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #8,275
  • May 30, 2022 7:12am May 30, 2022 7:12am
It has been a tough day with gbpusd, but good day at the end.

Closing it all as NY is closed today.
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Intraday only.
  • #8,276
  • May 30, 2022 7:23am May 30, 2022 7:23am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} 8 Cap Real accounts are about a pip higher due in part to no commission being charged as an example EU hovers around 1.1 pips. 8Cap demo is tight as with EU about 0.1 pips! It is not related to MT4 App vs. MT4 PC as they are the same for the same server. Masterrmind ...........

Mine confusement is caused due to the 2 names one named EURUSD and the other named EURUSDi, they have two different spreads. I think one is from the raw account and the other being the standard account.

The raw account looks lucrative due to its low spread and commission. Maybe therefore I will consider the 250 bonus
Thanks.
  • #8,277
  • May 30, 2022 12:15pm May 30, 2022 12:15pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Thank you for mentioning this. Unfortunately, yet another thing that does not seem to be published (or easily accessible) on their website. I contacted support about it: (Me) 08:25 PM Someone made a comment on ForexFactory, and I would like to know if there is any truth to it (regarding the new, aggressive accounts): "Also there is a clause somewhere, they will consider mean of both phases for lot size rule you can't deviate 25% up or down. So lets say you have mean of 1 lot on both phases, on live your lot size can be between 0.75 to 1.25....
In a way one should not care about funded account rules even though it is awkward, You have already pulled your money out as in phase-2 they give your 50% of profits back to you.
  • #8,278
  • May 30, 2022 1:19pm May 30, 2022 1:19pm
Quoting TrAndy1
Prop Firms Challenges decrypted The Expectancy Score which is the multiple value of paid fee I have calculated on all props with discount codes I know in the following table sheet below. Enjoy. Trading conditions like spreads and any hidden rules and customer service are not considered in the objective Score, because they depend more on your trading style. {image}
TrAndy1, thanks a lot for all effort you're putting in summarizing things and enquiring companies with quite detail. I really appreciate it !

Based on this table I was in the mood of adding another test to my portfolio, besides E8, which I'm already doing. It has to be challenge models.

I've been looking at FAQs of both Blue Guardian Capital and Funded Next and I'm unsure between them.

BlueG is cheaper ($497 for 100K vs $549). Targets Blue are 6% and 6% (vs 10% and 5%). Total loss is the same (10%). Daily loss are different (Blue 4% vs 5%) but don't bother me. Profit split in Blue is 85% (vs 80%). BlueG has 5 minimum trading days (vs 10 in FundedN). Leverage is not relevant for me (both 1:100).
EA, copying and scalping I don't care if they allow or not.

On the other side FundedN has biweekly payouts (monthly in BlueG). FundedN has 115% refund of the fee (vs 100% of BlueG).

There's a main (and significant) difference between them (besides the biweekly vs monthly payout): in BlueG we need to achieve 4% to be able to request the first withdraw.

In Trust Pilot they seem both pretty much decent, without major red flags. FundedN seems a little bit better. BlugeG gets claims mainly for being slow providing funded credentials, slow CS responses and not allowing 0.01 lots when trader achieves target and still had to complete the 5 minimum trading days.
FundedN main claims are about the 10 trading days but they responded in Trust Pilot that a major announcement is about to come public so maybe they will be decreasing it.

All in all I'm a bit undecided.

Have you guys seen payout proofs of these companies, heard any specific claims of not paying, etc. ?
  • #8,279
  • May 30, 2022 3:12pm May 30, 2022 3:12pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Good question. {quote}-Unfortunately, as things are, that is the way that it seems at the moment. {quote}-Technically, the lot size range is applied indefinitely. I surely hope that they revisit this. I cannot imagine that they have thought this out fully. One possibility is that their support teams are misinformed.
hmmmmmm could you strategically breakup your orders in phase 1 & 2. 50 lot higher risk position to pass = trade 5 10 lot positions instead, then once live you only trade 1 or 2 10 lot positions effectively lowering your risk per trade while also staying within their mean lot range?
  • #8,280
  • May 30, 2022 4:28pm May 30, 2022 4:28pm
Quoting sampat
In a way one should not care about funded account rules even though it is awkward, You have already pulled your money out as in phase-2 they give your 50% of profits back to you.
-This might depend on what type of trader you are and what your overall goals are. For me, having a long-term, stable account is much better than trying to secure new accounts regularly. However, if it is a 'fun' account, then sure.

Quoting CableJ
hmmmmmm could you strategically breakup your orders in phase 1 & 2. 50 lot higher risk position to pass = trade 5 10 lot positions instead, then once live you only trade 1 or 2 10 lot positions effectively lowering your risk per trade while also staying within their mean lot range?
-I am sure that a strategic plan could be put together, but it might be difficult, depending on your risk-tolerance. Improving R:R can only work so much, since you are under time-constraints. So, the obvious recourse would be to use bigger position sizes to get there. Unfortunately, you could still be left with sizeable positions on a live account, simply because of how much you have to gain during those challenges in order to pass them.

That being said, a trader could certainly do it with smaller lot sizes, but they might seriously have to grind it out. Another problem, is that once live, you will be forever restricted to that lot range, high or low. So, if you need to reduce lot sizes to carefully get out of a hole, or, you want to increase lot sizes after growing the account, you cannot? I am not so sure about this approach.
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