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Anyone trading with a Prop firm 1 reply

prop firm new model - my trading journey 869 replies

So I accepted a Prop Trading job in South Beach Miami 43 replies

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hey guys,

I wanted to try out e8 prop trading trial.

I downloaded mt4 ans when i tried to run, the following screen shot appears.

what needs to be filled up in three spaces ?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Capture.PNG Size: 27 KB
Intraday only.
Quoting navk
I passed yet another challenge today with MFF. {image}
Congratulations. I am wondering why to take so many 100K when you can take 200K at once?
Quoting navk
hey guys, I wanted to try out e8 prop trading trial. I downloaded mt4 ans when i tried to run, the following screen shot appears. what needs to be filled up in three spaces ? {image}
Maybe just to check to make sure proxy server is not ticked in server settings?

as in:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: navk.PNG Size: 2 KB

cheers
Quoting sampat
{quote} Congratulations. I am wondering why to take so many 100K when you can take 200K at once?
Good question,

The reasons are :

1) I am emotionally and technically used to trade with 100 k account.

2) If 200k challenge or funded account is lost, whole thing gone.

3) I want to trade separate 100 k accounts in order to trade with different risk parameters.
Intraday only.
Quoting maahome
{quote} Maybe just to check to make sure proxy server is not ticked in server settings? as in: {image} cheers
Let me check this.

thanks.
Intraday only.
Quoting HengkiTjen
{quote} If we archive live account But during live my draw down less than 12% in 2 month my live still active ?
There are people with accounts for months.
You only lose the account if you achieve a max loss of 12% or a daily drawdown of 5%.
Quoting MwlRCT
{quote} #4 and #5 {image}That is the point to note for ELEV8
Highly unlikely return sequence !

16% gain MoM for 3 months to be rewarded by a 90% split.

Goodness me that's a recipe for losing the funded account.

Masterrmind ..........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
Quoting navk
{quote} Good question, The reasons are : 1) I am emotionally and technically used to trade with 100 k account. 2) If 200k challenge or funded account is lost, whole thing gone. 3) I want to trade separate 100 k accounts in order to trade with different risk parameters.
Yes Navk best to stick to an account size that works for you and if it's the $100K account then so be it.

When you are rich and have nothing else better to do then by all means try an account such as the $200K or even larger again.

In any case, $100K accounts are not to be sneezed at so keep doing whatever it is you are doing because it's working for you.

Masterrmind ..........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Yes Navk best to stick to an account size that works for you and if it's the $100K account then so be it. When you are rich and have nothing else better to do then by all means try an account such as the $200K or even larger again. In any case, $100K accounts are not to be sneezed at so keep doing whatever it is you are doing because it's working for you. Masterrmind ..........
I was trading max 10k personal account.

This 100k account actually needed some practice.

Now I have adopted to this.

Sure some day, I will trade more 100k accounts.

I am optimistic as always.
Intraday only.
are there prop firm companies right now thats offering discount, i mean 30 - 50 percent discount.i havent done any propfirms before so just wanna try it.
Quoting KoyaAndy18
are there prop firm companies right now thats offering discount, i mean 30 - 50 percent discount.i havent done any propfirms before so just wanna try it.
If you haven't used Prop Firms before I would highly suggest that you firstly try a lower valued challenge from either of the top 2 current firms meaning FTMO or MFF.

If your budget is tight lean towards MFF (My Forex Funds) since their fees are a little cheaper than FTMO's.

Perhaps check out both sites and make the best choice of available challenges.

Do a challenge over the 2 phases and don't worry about the options of other models as they are not worth it in my opinion.

As for the discounts there was a useful link provided several posts back with a number of different discounts being offered, some discounts were also offered at MFF but I think it was only about 5%.

It's not always about the discount though, a better service is far more important.

Due diligence as always,

Masterrmind ...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
Quoting navk
{quote} I was trading max 10k personal account. This 100k account actually needed some practice. Now I have adopted to this. Sure some day, I will trade more 100k accounts. I am optimistic as always.
I was hoping to get some feedback about the XLTrade firm but it appears no one here has tried them or not willing to post publicly.

I'm not sure I want to be the guinea pig here though since the $500,000 challenge with XLTrade is going to be very difficult and the $1Million challenge starts at $100K and you have trade successfully and progress to $200K then $500K then to $1Miliion so very difficult and probably not worth it in my opinion.

In any case Navk I think it won't be long before you progress to even larger account sizes.

Best to you,

Masterrmind ...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
Quoting Masterrmind
I was hoping to get some feedback about the XLTrade firm but it appears no one here has tried them or not willing to post publicly.
-Have you signed up to see what they are hiding behind the curtain?
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Have you signed up to see what they are hiding behind the curtain?
Yes and I posted plenty of material in previous posts.

The price to play a $500,000 challenge is very good in my opinion but the trading rules and objectives are not so rosy.

Challenge in a nutshell is to trade two 30 day phases one after the other and generate a 10% Profit Target from a 5% DD !

I can perform at this level but NOT over a 30 day period it's just too short for me with such a narrow DD level. I'd need a much longer term such as 60 to 90 days.

MFF and FTMO blow this deal out of the water but you can't get $500K from FTMO only from MFF.

With MFF you would need to play 2x$200K and a 1x$100K set of challenges which at current pricing would set you back $2457.

XLTrade currently costs $1590 ( using current 20% discount, regular price is $1990).

With XLTrade you can manage the single challenge however, at MFF you would need to manage multiple challenges although a good trade copier could be used.

Masterrmind ...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Yes and I posted plenty of material in previous posts. The price to play a $500,000 challenge is very good in my opinion but the trading rules and objectives are not so rosy. Challenge in a nutshell is to trade two 30 day phases one after the other and generate a 10% Profit Target from a 5% DD ! I can perform at this level but NOT over a 30 day period it's just too short for me with such a narrow DD level. I'd need a much longer term such as 60 to 90 days. MFF and FTMO blow this deal out of the water but you can't get $500K from FTMO only...
Sorry to say MM, but I think you did not make the calculation properly. They want 10% profits to 5% DD two times and that in a row of only ca. 42 trading days. Just take a look on the price of $1590 for the 500k, so you get $25k as buffer here when funded. 90% of profits means about $22.5k equivalent as buffer. You call yourself an engineer, now just take only the Euler figure to that profits and DD values. At Euler with +10% to -5% (=2 as ratio) with two times in a row you have, (2.7^2)^2= ca. 53 times the inital fee. So with the $1590 you would have about ca. $84500 when doing it on a broker but you get only about $22500 when funded. That is clearly net negative and not a good and valuable offer from XLTrade. E.g. on FTMO you have about $5k (Euler with higher (+15% to -10% DD = 1.5 as ratio)) vs $16k what you get when funded on a $200k account with 80% profit split, so you get more than 3 times what you would get when doing alone on a broker. Of course this calculation is a bit simplified because I do not take any margin requirements of holding a position and Drawdown percentages of a live account as whole into account here. But this can be used as a start of any deliberation here, when evaluating any challenge offers from various prop firms.
{Just as an explanation to recall your old math knowledge the Euler figure of ~2.71828 is the figure you get when you reinvest your profits. E.g. 7 times a year with ~10% profit doubles your account when profits would have been reinvested. If you reinvest in very small increment steps then you get the ~2.71 Euler figure.}
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Sorry to say MM, but I think you did not make the calculation properly. They want 10% profits to 5% DD two times and that in a row of only ca. 42 trading days. Just take a look on the price of $1590 for the 500k, so you get $25k as buffer here when funded. 90% of profits means about $22.5k equivalent as buffer. You call yourself an engineer, now just take only the Euler figure to that profits and DD values. At Euler with +10% to -5% (=2 as ratio) with two times in a row you have, (2.7^2)^2= ca. 53 times the inital fee. So with the $1590...
Great explanation. I try to explain this over and over when folks bring up that direct funding garbage. You are clearly very educated on this subject. Your reasons above are EXACTLY why I use FTMO and MFF exclusively. This combined with their own feed (no 3rd party broker). However, I am going to be adding True Forex Funds and E8 funding for these same reasons.
I'd also be curious to actual see how large that negative expectancy is on a direct funding model such as the 5%ers.
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Great explanation. I try to explain this over and over when folks bring up that direct funding garbage. You are clearly very educated on this subject. Your reasons above are EXACTLY why I use FTMO and MFF exclusively. This combined with their own feed (no 3rd party broker). However, I am going to be adding True Forex Funds and E8 funding for these same reasons. I'd also be curious to actual see how large that negative expectancy is on a direct funding model such as the 5%ers.
Clearly a rip-off from the 5%ers because you pay more than twice what you get. The calculation is bit different here because it is not challenge but direct fund model.
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Clearly a rip-off from the 5%ers with the same and simplified calculation as in my previous post. I took to $80k low risk offer as example and I got about ~11 times worse results when you are doing the same on live account at a broker. So you pay more than 11 times than what you get when doing it alone. This can be called scam.
Well I guess since they clearly disclose it, they are legal. They simply prey on folks who do not understand math. There are literally folks posting that the 5%ers is BY FAR the best prop firm. Yes, let me make 1/10 of the money as I would trading on my own for the same effort.......What a deal!!!!
These 2 phase challenge/evaluations provide you with minimum 20 times the DD, some greater than 25 times vs. your fee. As long as the target is equal to or less than the DD offered, even factoring the split, it is always positive expectancy of 3 or above as you have explained in the earlier post.
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Yes and I posted plenty of material in previous posts. The price to play a $500,000 challenge is very good in my opinion but the trading rules and objectives are not so rosy. Challenge in a nutshell is to trade two 30 day phases one after the other and generate a 10% Profit Target from a 5% DD ! I can perform at this level but NOT over a 30 day period it's just too short for me with such a narrow DD level. I'd need a much longer term such as 60 to 90 days. MFF and FTMO blow this deal out of the water but you can't get $500K from FTMO only...
Hi MM

That new TE you've posted - is that TopTenTraders? Can't see anything on their website!
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Well I guess since they clearly disclose it, they are legal. They simply prey on folks who do not understand math. There are literally folks posting that the 5%ers is BY FAR the best prop firm. Yes, let me make 1/10 of the money as I would trading on my own for the same effort.......What a deal!!!! These 2 phase challenge/evaluations provide you with minimum 20 times the DD, some greater than 25 times vs. your fee. As long as the target is equal to or less than the DD offered, even factoring the split, it is always positive expectancy of...
Yes, one can take this simplified formula for evaluation of any challenge of any prop firm.

Expectancy = ((Max. Drawdown on a given challenge account) * (profit split percentage)) - (Euler^((% Profit goal) / ((-) max. allowed Drawdown))*(challenge fee))

For example on FTMO $200k account. You have with 80% profit split $16k as buffer - 15% profit goal from the two phases versus -10% max. DD, so 1.5 as ratio, that is with Euler ~2.7^(1.5)=4.44 times the challenge fee of $1145 (Euro 1080 with EU exchange rate at ~1.06), that $16k from FTMO minus equivalent of ~$5k = 3.2 times what you get in comparison when doing this yourself on a live account at a broker of your choice.

So you have for FTMO on a 200k: ($20k*80%) - (2.7^(1.5)*$1145)= $16k- (4.44*$1145) =$11k in absolute number or as relative expectancy $16k/$5k=3.2.

It is all simple math when doing your own calculation whether an offer is attractive in its expectancy or not. The comparison can be so easy when you clarify yourself.

Of couse when comparing different offers from different prop firms one needs to take into the overall trading conditions (spreads+any hidden rules) and service too.
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