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  • #6,881
  • Mar 10, 2022 6:23am Mar 10, 2022 6:23am
This is probably not the right forum for this comment but I think EURUSD is a good short today just after the US CPI announcement due out shortly. Just posting this here because I saw Masterrmind's comment on going long on the pair earlier....
  • #6,882
  • Mar 10, 2022 6:36am Mar 10, 2022 6:36am
I personally like having the option to get up and running live in such a short period of time, so the added risk seems like a fair trade-off for me. But, I do understand that it is not suitable for everyone, especially for those that do not typically scalp the market.

I still think that it is hypocritical, though, to expect a 100% or greater return within such a short period of time, then try to claim that you want good, solid traders that will not abuse capital, and that you do not want traders to pass challenges using huge lot sizes. If they really wanted that, then they would limit lot sizes and reduce the profit goals. But, they do not really want that because they know that it would limit their profits, sad to say.

They could also go the other way, and extend the trading period for the challenges to make things more reasonable, but that would not be my preference. I would rather pay a fee and trade for a short period of time rather than to have to trade on demo for 6 months in order to prove myself. This approach would also severely limit their profits.

I think, if they ever did extend the trading period to 6 months or similar, then there should not be any sort of fee and there should only be one challenge, simply put. But then the idea of operating 'like a prop firm, but not really' may start to encroach into that gray area. I do not ever see them going this way. The profit-potential from the turnover is just too good for them, as things currently are.
  • #6,883
  • Mar 10, 2022 6:39am Mar 10, 2022 6:39am
Quoting fxbarwise
This is probably not the right forum for this comment but I think EURUSD is a good short today just after the US CPI announcement due out shortly. Just posting this here because I saw Masterrmind's comment on going long on the pair earlier....
The benefit of hindsight!

Masterrmind ........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #6,884
  • Mar 10, 2022 6:41am Mar 10, 2022 6:41am
Quoting inversio
{quote} r u sure they dont have any time limit to pass the challenge, i think both has similar time frame offered by other firm 1st 30 then 60 days.
Yes, they are both challenge type models. By no time frame, direct funding, I'm speaking of 5%ers, CTI, Lux, etc. Where you basically fund your own account and then they use YOUR profits to scale you at a slower rate than you would on your own. Then they take 30-50% on top. I literally cannot believe folks are falling for those.
  • #6,885
  • Mar 10, 2022 6:45am Mar 10, 2022 6:45am
Quoting Nsak3y
I personally like having the option to get up and running live in such a short period of time, so the added risk seems like a fair trade-off for me. But, I do understand that it is not suitable for everyone, especially for those that do not typically scalp the market. I still think that it is hypocritical, though, to expect a 100% or greater return within such a short period of time, then try to claim that you want good, solid traders that will not abuse capital, and that you do not want traders to pass challenges using huge lot sizes. If they really...
Many traders forget what the actual target means with respect to DD.

Afterall, it is only the Daily DD that one can use and still keep the challenge alive.

What is the DD ?

What is the Target ?

Either use % or $ and you'll quickly see what type of monthly gain one has to achieve to pass a challenge.

100% Gain in Equity as you say is close enough.

Crazy huh.

Masterrmind ..........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #6,886
  • Mar 10, 2022 6:54am Mar 10, 2022 6:54am
Quoting Nsak3y
I personally like having the option to get up and running live in such a short period of time, so the added risk seems like a fair trade-off for me. But, I do understand that it is not suitable for everyone, especially for those that do not typically scalp the market. I still think that it is hypocritical, though, to expect a 100% or greater return within such a short period of time, then try to claim that you want good, solid traders that will not abuse capital, and that you do not want traders to pass challenges using huge lot sizes. If they really...
Exactly. It is an unspoken truth that challenge fees due make up a large portion of their profit. MFF still seems a bit different to me, definitely more trader friendly than FTMO. I do believe MFF is executing trades in the real market in some form and they indeed earn income from their profitable traders. I can not confidentially state the same for FTMO. However, whatever FTMO is doing works very well and they absolutely do pay.
So, in my opinion, you go in knowing most fail and the fees are part of the revenue. However, if you are one of the 5%, you have the capital now to earn life changing income, especially once you start stacking the accounts. So, it is risk vs reward, just like we, as traders, do everyday. To me, reward of these firms far outweighs the risk, for other traders , maybe not.
  • #6,887
  • Mar 10, 2022 7:04am Mar 10, 2022 7:04am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} The benefit of hindsight! Masterrmind ........
I guess you should take a look at the EU chart and tell me if the 1.11 handle got hit ?

Masterrmind ..........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #6,888
  • Mar 10, 2022 7:04am Mar 10, 2022 7:04am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Many traders forget what the actual target means with respect to DD. Afterall, it is only the Daily DD that one can use and still keep the challenge alive. What is the DD ? What is the Target ? Either use % or $ and you'll quickly see what type of monthly gain one has to achieve to pass a challenge. 100% Gain in Equity as you say is close enough. Crazy huh. Masterrmind ..........
Very good post MM.

I was thinking, let's say one was given a $100 account to trade and told you can't lose more then $5 at any time - would you think it's possible?

Looking at making a 10% gain, it's fairly easy to do on a $100 account but far more difficult On a $100000 account. Trading 5 micro-lots on a $100 account is not a problem for most but trading the same margin on a 100k account you would need to trade 50 lots
  • #6,889
  • Mar 10, 2022 7:09am Mar 10, 2022 7:09am
Just went in a little too early.
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That's trading for you.

Masterrmind ...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #6,890
  • Mar 10, 2022 7:12am Mar 10, 2022 7:12am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} I guess you should take a look at the EU chart and tell me if the 1.11 handle got hit ? Masterrmind ..........
It was hit indeed sir, but I think the big drop is imminent.
  • #6,891
  • Mar 10, 2022 7:45am Mar 10, 2022 7:45am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Many traders forget what the actual target means with respect to DD. Afterall, it is only the Daily DD that one can use and still keep the challenge alive. What is the DD ? What is the Target ? Either use % or $ and you'll quickly see what type of monthly gain one has to achieve to pass a challenge. 100% Gain in Equity as you say is close enough. Crazy huh. Masterrmind ..........
Absolutely, 67% with MFF and 100% with FTMO. My approach on the challenges is always a risk of ruin of 20 consecutive losses, so 5% of the DD or 0.5% of equity, whichever way you wish to do it. This way position size adjusts based on whether you are in profit or DD. Keep in mind, the 5% of DD will result in larger changes in position size than the equity approach. If you always adjust to risk of ruin of 20 based on current status of account, account should never violate. Of course, daily DD must still be considered and also keep in mind, once you are in DD you must earn even greater returns just to recover (however, this applies to any trading account)
  • #6,892
  • Mar 10, 2022 8:24am Mar 10, 2022 8:24am
Quoting Masterrmind
Either use % or $ and you'll quickly see what type of monthly gain one has to achieve to pass a challenge. 100% Gain in Equity as you say is close enough. Crazy huh. Masterrmind ..........
-Yes, and this marketing scheme is probably by design. The 200K account could easily say 2M...it really would not matter. Draw-down allowance matters, and when you compare that to your target requirements, you can quickly see what you are up against. As you say, most do not take the time to carefully analyze everything, though.

Another thing to mention is that these crazy targets usually have to be done, not just once, but twice! And with some of these firms, even if you do happen to pass both challenges, you still have to manage to stay above water until your first payout, so there is still a chance that they could get your money if you are not careful. What a great business model.

Quoting pipmaster77
So, it is risk vs reward, just like we, as traders, do everyday. To me, reward of these firms far outweighs the risk, for other traders , maybe not.
-Absolutely.
  • #6,893
  • Edited 9:56am Mar 10, 2022 9:32am | Edited 9:56am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Yes, and this marketing scheme is probably by design. The 200K account could easily say 2M...it really would not matter. Draw-down allowance matters, and when you compare that to your target requirements, you can quickly see what you are up against. As you say, most do not take the time to carefully analyze everything, though. Another thing to mention is that these crazy targets usually have to be done, not just once, but twice! And with some of these firms, even if you do happen to pass both challenges, you still have to manage to stay...
Right. But marketing it as
"here is a 20K evaluation, double it in a month, only DD rule is don't lose more than half of the 20K in a day.......pass and then you only need to make 10K in the next 60 days......pass that and we will give you a 20K account to trade as you wish, and you keep 80% of profits."
I may be crazy, but something tells me there would not be as many sign ups lol.
Once again, I think getting 20-24 times your money (DD vs fee paid) is great, especially since fee is refunded and you have 0 risk at that point. But, yes, I do think most do not analyze it for what it truly is as far as what needs to be accomplished those first 30 days.
I see it like this.....for $979 you trade a 24K account. Unlike the direct funding where your personal account would have more vs the DD allowed, with the challenge model if you take $979 (MFF 200K) and earned 67% ($656) you will have $1634, then 41.6% of $1634 , another $679, you will have $2313. Instead you get your $979 back and you have $24K to trade with. Direct funding you start behind the 8 ball by paying a higher fee than the allowable loss and then every time you make 250% (10% with 4% DD) they double your DD. Not only are you funding your own account, you are actually earning more profit (250%) than they are scaling you(200%) and they keep 50%.
  • #6,894
  • Mar 10, 2022 10:24am Mar 10, 2022 10:24am
I just feel ftmo should just swap the time frame between phase 1 and 2.
Phase 1 at 60 day and phase 2 at 30 day. Makes more sense. But that wouldn't be challenge.
Just my opinion
  • #6,895
  • Mar 10, 2022 10:27am Mar 10, 2022 10:27am
Quoting jinsen
I just feel ftmo should just swap the time frame between phase 1 and 2. Phase 1 at 60 day and phase 2 at 30 day. Makes more sense. But that wouldn't be challenge. Just my opinion
That does make a lot more sense, 10% in 60 days, another 5% in 30 days. Fee revenue would go way down though.
  • #6,896
  • Mar 10, 2022 10:33am Mar 10, 2022 10:33am
Quoting jinsen
I just feel ftmo should just swap the time frame between phase 1 and 2. Phase 1 at 60 day and phase 2 at 30 day. Makes more sense. But that wouldn't be challenge. Just my opinion

really wan to know the secret of this. high % target with lower time frame and vise versa.
there must be something otherwise some prop firm would offer that.
  • #6,897
  • Mar 10, 2022 10:49am Mar 10, 2022 10:49am
Quoting inversio
{quote} r u sure they dont have any time limit to pass the challenge, i think both has similar time frame offered by other firm 1st 30 then 60 days.
Ouch ! My brain froze.

I replied about those two props not having a minimum number of days to pass the challenge, instead of time limit to pass it.

Sorry about that guys ! Please disregard what I said.
  • #6,898
  • Mar 10, 2022 10:50am Mar 10, 2022 10:50am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Nope. Read the wording again from the post above. At least 6%. If I tagged $12000 in profit on a $200,000 challenge I would get an extension, no doubt about it based on their wording. In any case I'm not in that space now. New free challenge coming my way soon. Masterrmind .........
Aggressive scalping may be needed to complete challenge in my opinion.
Intraday only.
  • #6,899
  • Mar 10, 2022 10:54am Mar 10, 2022 10:54am
Quoting navk
My evaluation phase 1. Day 3 elapsed. 100 k evaluation. The funded 100 k is another one at this stage. {image}
Did not do much but it is ok day.

Today is 4 th day.
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Intraday only.
  • #6,900
  • Mar 10, 2022 11:04am Mar 10, 2022 11:04am
For the ftmo challenge....can trade crypto during weekends? Do you guys all opt for the swing account
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