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  • #35,461
  • Feb 11, 2022 9:28pm Feb 11, 2022 9:28pm
Quoting PranithR
{quote} Thanks for sharing Anotan and Nice trade. I was also in this trade but entered late after seeing Upthrust in a downtrend at 115.905 Emphasis Added
On my platform, the highest volume bar was the bar before.

The entry came later.

We can see the BOS and Lower Highs and Lower Lows.

There's also a FVG at the HB to give even more decision support.

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Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #35,462
  • Feb 11, 2022 9:41pm Feb 11, 2022 9:41pm
The EURO was pretty clear as well.

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Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #35,463
  • Feb 12, 2022 1:45am Feb 12, 2022 1:45am
HG, have you adjusted your terminology mate?
Thought you used to call it a "hidden gap"

To be fair though, the new ICT stuff is really good. Ive been looking to implement it myself with VSA.

One of the questions I asked myself though is.....do I really need VSA with it?

But certainly using VSA to confirm the entries rather than using limit orders has been usefull.
  • #35,464
  • Feb 12, 2022 8:46am Feb 12, 2022 8:46am
Quoting Paulscaff1
HG, have you adjusted your terminology mate? Thought you used to call it a "hidden gap"
Despite what ICT says, there was somebody talking about this phenomena before him-WRBTrader (Mark). Mark is only concerned with these gaps (when they involve a Wide Range Body (WRB).

Those two can duke it out between themselves over who's the discoverer, I just know that they're both on to something important.

A lot of the people here are beginning to use ICT's FVG concepts, and I like the term. I will probably use FVG and HG interchangeably. But I will usually only be referring to those gaps that involve a WRB. And I will use the entire body of the candle for the Gap Zone (ICT actually does this too at times).

Quoting Paulscaff1
To be fair though, the new ICT stuff is really good. Ive been looking to implement it myself with VSA. One of the questions I asked myself though is.....do I really need VSA with it? But certainly using VSA to confirm the entries rather than using limit orders has been usefull.
I have been watching the new YouTube Mentorship my self. I really like it. Calling it really good is an understatement. I am forever a believer in the importance of volume, so I do really need a way to combine ICT's methods with VSA. I'm "toying" with this:

Take a look at the charts below:
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This is my M15 of the SPX500 (ES). I have my vertical line at 0830 NY time.

I looked to the left and found the first Structure Low. (dark green)

I also marked the significant low (lime green)

ICT looks at HB of the range, but I ignore that since I am placing the Trigger Matrix on the H1 highest volume candle.

Then I dropped down to the M2.

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I'm only looking for short as price is below HB and below the GTH Open.

There a multiple chances to enter at the 25% Trigger Number.

If you wanted to use a target, the significant low (green line) where there's sellside liquidity would make a good one.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #35,465
  • Edited 11:28am Feb 12, 2022 10:11am | Edited 11:28am
Quoting HiddenGap
{quote} Despite what ICT says, there was somebody talking about this phenomena before him-WRBTrader (Mark). Mark is only concerned with these gaps (when they involve a Wide Range Body (WRB). Those two can duke it out between themselves over who's the discoverer, I just know that they're both on to something important. A lot of the people here are beginning to use ICT's FVG concepts, and I like the term. I will probably use FVG and HG interchangeably. But I will usually only be referring to those gaps that involve a WRB. And I will use the entire...
Nice one mate.

This is one I was forward testing last Friday on GBPJPY.

H4: On Thursday price ran some buyside liquidity just underneath an H4 Orderblock

M30: There was UHV/ climactic action in the area which ran the stops and knocked the market sideways producing the "mushrooming over effect"

M15: There was a big upthrust just after London Open when I arrived at the chart, which caused a break of structure and left a fair value gap. (There was a no demand entry here at the fvg)

M5: Here we can find a tighter entry 1. at the M15 fvg, also a further entry 2. into newer fvg.

Logical target would be at the bottom of the trading range......SSL
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  • #35,466
  • Edited 10:35am Feb 12, 2022 10:13am | Edited 10:35am
Quoting HiddenGap
{quote} Despite what ICT says, there was somebody talking about this phenomena before him-WRBTrader (Mark). Mark is only concerned with these gaps (when they involve a Wide Range Body (WRB). Those two can duke it out between themselves over who's the discoverer, I just know that they're both on to something important. A lot of the people here are beginning to use ICT's FVG concepts, and I like the term. I will probably use FVG and HG interchangeably. But I will usually only be referring to those gaps that involve a WRB. And I will use the entire...

P.S I really enjoyed the new market maker series aswell. Definitely a lot of gold nuggets in there, and much better than the original one.
Game changer for me personally.
  • #35,467
  • Feb 12, 2022 11:08am Feb 12, 2022 11:08am
Quoting Paulscaff1
{quote} Nice one mate. This is one I was forward testing last Friday on GBPJPY. H4: On Thursday price ran some buyside liquidity just underneath an H4 Orderblock M30: There was UHV/ climactic action in the area which ran the stops and knocked the market sideways producing the "mushrooming over effect" M15: There was a big upthrust just after London Open when I arrived at the chart, which caused a break of structure and left a fair value gap. (There was a failed test entry here at the fvg) M5: Here we can find a tighter entry 1. at the M15 fvg, also...
Very Nice.

I'm still partial to the Trigger Number Matrix (TNM).

For me, even though there's a beautiful No Demand inside the FVG ZONE, it's on the 75% Trigger Number so above HB and I can only take shorts below HB.

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Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #35,468
  • Feb 12, 2022 11:59am Feb 12, 2022 11:59am
Quoting HiddenGap
{quote} Very Nice. I'm still partial to the Trigger Number Matrix (TNM). For me, even though there's a beautiful No Demand inside the FVG ZONE, it's on the 75% Trigger Number so above HB and I can only take shorts below HB. {image}
Yeah i know what you mean, that H1 HVZ was pretty wide.

The fact that price stayed above the HB would make it look like a potential long might have set-up.
  • #35,469
  • Feb 13, 2022 10:18am Feb 13, 2022 10:18am
Quoting Anotan
Something I've been playing with for a few weeks, keep in mind this is completely use at your own risk. The idea behind using this fib is to keep me in trades longer, especially right now since the market is in trend mode, soo many pips to be made right now. I haven't done all of my homework yet, I'm imagining that during ranging times, price will likely make large spikey movements up to the 23 or the 38, but thats just theory at this point.
Very interesting idea. You've got me thinking.

Quoting Anotan
I have no idea if tradable entries will line up with it, I haven't done the leg work for entries and don't plan on doing it. Like I said, the sole intention of this was just a way to keep me in trades longer. Emphasis Added
Being right and sitting tight-that's where the money is.

However, my thoughts surround using this concept to find an Ideal exit that mitigates greed while maximizing profit potential. Tom didn't use targets, because "the market can go further than you think'. I'm starting to think it might be more important to recognize that "some pips/ticks are going to be missed" and learning to be okay with that.

Quoting Anotan
Basically just fib the previous day's highest volume bar like you would for VZA....
It all starts with the Trigger Number Matrix. I added two Fib levels: -138.2% and 238.2%. This gives us an upper target level and a lower target level.

In VSA, there are two ways to draw the Matrix: Statically or Dynamically. I tend to favor the Static method where the highest volume candle from the previous day's H1 chart is used.

Take a look at the chart(s) below.

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There's an obvious entry on M15, but if you were inclined to get more granular:

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Have you noticed anything similar? Are still looking at this concept at all?
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #35,470
  • Edited Feb 14, 2022 2:30am Feb 13, 2022 8:56pm | Edited Feb 14, 2022 2:30am
Quoting HiddenGap
Are still looking at this concept at all?
I'm still using this to manage my trades, I'm basically holding trades as price pushes through levels and start closing trades if price rejecting the same level multiple times or climatic volume hits at one of these levels.

Quoting HiddenGap
{quote} Tom didn't use targets, because "the market can go further than you think'. I'm starting to think it might be more important to recognize that "some pips/ticks are going to be missed" and learning to be okay with that.
I completely agree with this and it's worth getting away from fixed targets. I don't like MAs and this seems like an easy way to manage trades using S/R.

Quoting HiddenGap
{quote} Have you noticed anything similar?
I apologize, I'm not sure what you're asking here. About using the 75% level? Dropping down to a smaller time frame?

To be honest I haven't looked at the 75%/25% levels, when I look at charts I still see levels based on closes I've been doing this for years its just the first thing my eyes see. I think my trading plan is turning into a toolbox, I use HVC a lot but starting to use VZA too. And personally I don't go below M15 unless its just a really aggressive trend and price is essentially going straight up with almost no pullbacks. Then I'll drop to M5 or M1.
  • #35,471
  • Feb 14, 2022 7:29pm Feb 14, 2022 7:29pm
COMPARE AND CONTRAST

The purpose of this post is not to determine which method is better, but rather to show something I found interesting.

Check out this "ICT" Euro trade.

Inserted Video


Here's the Volume Spread Analysis (VSA) trade I took.

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The trade is pretty self-explanatory. We're below HB so we're only looking to get short. Monday's can be hard to trade because the weekly and daily candle's opens are coupled. But price was below them, so we did have Downside Time Frame Continuity.

We see a wide spread UP candle that closes off its highs on Ultra High Volume. This is Supply. The next bar is DOWN, which confirms the Supply on the previous candle. As I have said in numerous posts before, price is hitting the 25% Tigger Number, which along with 75%, make up the complete Trigger Number Matrix.

Note that this next interval also closes below the Trigger Number Low (or 0%). The entry is taken at the open of the next candle. The stop is placed just above the 25% Trigger Number. Again one reason for this level is we can use a tighter stop than HB or the Trigger Number High. We can also see that a close above this level would put price above the weekly and daily open (there the same today), which would mean you would only want to be looking for longs.

ICT would be looking either to exit at the lows, or take partial profits at the lows. My Idea is to target the extension level -138.2%. This is in lieu of using Average Daily Range. Just something I'm toying with at this point.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #35,472
  • Feb 14, 2022 7:55pm Feb 14, 2022 7:55pm
Hi all.
I'm looking at USDJPY (H1) for a long trade. Need some comment, thank you.
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  • #35,473
  • Feb 14, 2022 9:26pm Feb 14, 2022 9:26pm
Quoting hafizkamal
Hi all. I'm looking at USDJPY (H1) for a long trade. Need some comment, thank you. {image} {image}
I wouldn't go long just yet.

Look at that volume that came in late yesterday. That climatic volume is very odd for that time of day also price has been steadily going down since that volume. That high volume test bar that you noted that is testing the low of the climatic volume, the reaction to the test looks very weak meaning that no one was interested in buying after a bullish test, huge red flag.

I wouldn't go long until the high of the climatic volume (115.65) has been taken out and re tested.
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  • #35,474
  • Feb 14, 2022 10:03pm Feb 14, 2022 10:03pm
Quoting Anotan
{quote} I wouldn't go long just yet. Look at that volume that came in late yesterday. That climatic volume is very odd for that time of day also price has been steadily going down since that volume. That high volume test bar that you noted that is testing the low of the climatic volume, the reaction to the test looks very weak meaning that no one was interested in buying after a bullish test, huge red flag. I wouldn't go long until the high of the climatic volume (115.65) has been taken out and re tested. {image}
Thanks Anotan. I can see that.
  • #35,475
  • Feb 14, 2022 10:17pm Feb 14, 2022 10:17pm
Quoting hafizkamal
Hi all. I'm looking at USDJPY (H1) for a long trade. Need some comment, thank you. {image} {image}
here is my opinion, i prefer the scenario (1) but it can go to scenario (2) ... Anotan is master trader here, maybe you should take his advice, i just share my opinion here, i could be wrong
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  • #35,476
  • Feb 14, 2022 10:54pm Feb 14, 2022 10:54pm
EU Long..

This is counter trend, 1320 is the 50% of yesterday's highest volume bar. So I do need to keep that in mind and be careful of any supply that enters at that level.

Mainly I'm watching that odd volume that came in late yesterday, which is bullish on EU and price has been hesitant to break below the close at yesterday's highest volume bar.

I'll be quick to move my stop up and I'm looking for price to quickly mark through 1320, if supply enters at 1320 I'll be watching to see if price starts reacting to the supply. Its possible supply could hit at 1320 but not react and just keep pushing up. Counter trend or not, when you open a trade you have to be aware of the other side.
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  • #35,477
  • Feb 14, 2022 11:15pm Feb 14, 2022 11:15pm
Quoting Anotan
EU Long.. This is counter trend, 1320 is the 50% of yesterday's highest volume bar. So I do need to keep that in mind and be careful of any supply that enters at that level. Mainly I'm watching that odd volume that came in late yesterday, which is bullish on EU and price has been hesitant to break below the close at yesterday's highest volume bar. I'll be quick to move my stop up and I'm looking for price to quickly mark through 1320, if supply enters at 1320 I'll be watching to see if price starts reacting to the supply. Its possible supply could...
I prefer selling than buying for EU right now, i could be wrong, lets see
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  • #35,478
  • Edited Feb 15, 2022 12:01am Feb 14, 2022 11:30pm | Edited Feb 15, 2022 12:01am
Quoting Anotan
EU Long.. This is counter trend, 1320 is the 50% of yesterday's highest volume bar. So I do need to keep that in mind and be careful of any supply that enters at that level. Mainly I'm watching that odd volume that came in late yesterday, which is bullish on EU and price has been hesitant to break below the close at yesterday's highest volume bar. I'll be quick to move my stop up and I'm looking for price to quickly mark through 1320, if supply enters at 1320 I'll be watching to see if price starts reacting to the supply. Its possible supply could...
Some supply coming in, pulled up my stop, about 4 pips exposed right now.

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I was taken out for a small loss.

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  • #35,479
  • Edited Feb 15, 2022 2:15am Feb 14, 2022 11:41pm | Edited Feb 15, 2022 2:15am
Quoting HiddenGap
COMPARE AND CONTRAST The purpose of this post is not to determine which method is better, but rather to show something I found interesting. Check out this "ICT" Euro trade. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYPa094Emto Here's the Volume Spread Analysis (VSA) trade I took. {image} The trade is pretty self-explanatory. We're below HB so we're only looking to get short. Monday's can be hard to trade because the weekly and daily candle's opens are coupled. But price was below them, so we did have Downside Time Frame Continuity. We see a wide...
Nice trade mate.

Interesting you talk about the daily/weekly opens.

I know its been mentioned before to look for longs above and shorts below. Not sure if youve watched the market maker series, but he talks about the more optimal entries appearing on the opposite sides.

For example, if we "speculate" an up day/week then we could maybe expect price to be manipulated below the open, before the daily expansion higher. So taking the long trade at the "low of the day/week" (under the open) would take advantage of the "premium/discount theory.

I think this is usually referred to as the OSOK model.
(One Shot, One Kill)

Obviously this is only if the setup presents itself there and you are confident in the bias.

Just thought it was something to add.
  • #35,480
  • Feb 15, 2022 12:11am Feb 15, 2022 12:11am
Quoting Anotan
{quote} Some supply coming in, pulled up my stop, about 4 pips exposed right now. {image} I was taken out for a small loss. {image}
But its shooting up to the Expansion volume bar close of Friday?!!
Learning is a never ending Journey
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