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Quoting ohitsyou
{quote} People frequently throw out the term "psychology". What exactly does that mean? Does anyone here have a PhD in psychology? Does anyone here have an MD and specialize in mental health? In my opinion there is no such thing as the "psychology of trading". It's a catch-all phrase that people use when they can't explain something. On the other hand, there is "urgency" and "attention to detail". When you are locked-in and paying attention to details then that is when you are most likely to succeed. But urgency and paying attention to details have...
If you have gone through George's previous thread (of which this thread was born out of) and his podcast interviews with Djamal you would understand what I mean by psychology.
Quoting ohitsyou
{quote}

PS: Lazy traders are quick to adopt someone else's paradigm view -- thinking it provides a short-cut to success and relieves them from having to hone the fundamental skills of observation and attention to detail. But it never works out, does it? George was right about encouraging members to put in the work -- but I suspect he wasn't clear about exactly what the work should be.

PPS: Suggesting that we each have our own paradigm view of the market suggests the market supports multiple paradigms -- thousands or millions of different...

Hi OIY,

It could be that George did work it out.

Andy had a paradigm also, well a comical one, that he posted a while back and what made me smile

https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...5#post13839925


I have asked questions about the market along similar lines.

https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...9#post13857359


But you are correct. The market will do its thing regardless of how we view it.

And it won’t matter, only how & when we trade it.


I hold the same paradigm view each & every time I enter a trade, yet I do take losses, so I don’t have it absolutely perfect, I just keep ahead of it.

The paradigm view I have is with Targets.

Not just that they exist. BUT that price on the chart will, no HAS, to go to its target.
These are set targets (while I also acknowledge there's also dynamic targets along the way.)


Therefore I do NOT trade believing that PRICE will … just go up OR down (ultimately).

I work on the paradigm that price is actually going SOMEWHERE, and quite specific.

There are times for sure when I do close out a trade BEFORE it reaches its final destination (sometimes because it happens in the New York session when I am in bed asleep ). I baby-sit every trade so that I never have open trades (I'm flat) at the time my trading day is over.


George had always mentioned observation and laziness as you say. (And I am not being nosey, but did you ever discuss this with George yourself in a previous incarnation on FF here ? I don’t need to know or care exactly who that was, I was just wondering this out of curiosity).

This has been a great series of chats OIY, thank you.
Pete
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Hi Mik, Yes, George loved Michael H also. Mate I have done my own setup now to a point where I am very happy & confident with its execution. It is small time believe me, and I essentially scalp, but I scalp with the current directional momentum, often from what folks call "pullbacks" (which just like the words S&D I dont believe they are exactly as the industry explains them to us ). Cheers for the offer tho, pls put up all charts as you see fit pal, they look great Pete
Pete, here's another example of a target.
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Quoting ohitsyou
{quote} Right -- I'm going to read > 5000 posts and listen to some podcasts to figure out what you mean by psychology? Since you are the one who brought it up and pushes the importance of psychology, why don't you tell us what you think it means. I'm guessing that you won't because you aren't really sure yourself. In a sentence or two, please tell us why psychology is so important -- 3 examples would be nice.
Post #1 of this thread reads:
THIS PROJECT IS NOT FOR ,,,
= LAZY TRADERS ,,,
WHO ARE LOOKING TO MASTER THIS GAME BY ,,,
OTHER MEMBERS TO WALK YOU THROUGH EVERY SINGLE LITTLE STEP ,,, AND ,,,
DO YOUR DIRTY WORK FOR YOU ! ! ! !

I read all 5000 plus posts and went through the videos over and over again. I also went through some of the posts posted outside of the 2 threads started by George and some members who were active on his threads. Some members here who did the same thing understands when I'm talking about psychology. So if you want to know its importance, and in relation to theories that George introduced to us, you will have to do the dirty work (otherwise you can just ignore my posts).
Quoting ohitsyou
{quote}
The response to my post showing the Stochastics indicator has been overwhelming
But the point is the market repeatedly moves from oversold-to-overbought and back again.
So what does this have to do with Market Psychology?
The market behaves as a system that has nothing to do with psychology

Hi OIY,

Well you would have had some interesting discussions with George I reckon.

He was firm, I believe (I may be wrong) that there is NO such thing as either overbought or oversold.
These are only narratives and in that respect no different I imagine to a narrative of a market psychology.
It's all how we each see the end product.

I do like your chart. I did have to explode it to see my Targets (old AND new)
(which I post below).

(Don't worry about an under-whelming response to charts, I get plenty, traders show what THEY see, while others will see things in their way, and that is okay)


What I do see on your charts incl the Stochs is the usual intra-day price actions.

I've also seen massive spikes, that would "freeze" a Stoch at 0/100
Those spikes went so close to the pip to reach one of George's Targets. Spread over a year apart.
That teases me that Target Theory is very solid.
(also posted below)


So, with Market Psychology yes it’s narrative.
When words & phrases are used “in-house” over a period (ie on threads) then they do become ‘local’ vernacular.

The use of these could be chatted about, rather than just dismissed outright
especially if then just introducing another word replacement like "pattern" or "system".
Which are really just other ways of expressing market behaviour.

I grew up old school, we liked to say back then
“When in Rome, do as the Romans”
Well, at least until the Romans get to know you.


I liked your naked charts, I like to think I might trade them - if the size of the Stoch indi window was reduced to see the targets expanded better.

I'm happy to see where you lead this,
cheers again.

The same chart as your naked except with George's Targets (old & new) and no stochs.

.
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ooops

and the spike chart also, this was a ripper "flash" lol, almost to the Target pip

.
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Quoting TimeTells
ooops and the spike chart also, this was a ripper "flash" lol, almost to the Target pip . {image}
Wow. Tells a lot. Who would have thought that previous highs and lows were George's targets. Mind blowing.
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Hi OIY, Well you would have had some interesting discussions with George I reckon. He was firm, I believe (I may be wrong) that there is NO such thing as either overbought or oversold. These are only narratives and in that respect no different I imagine to a narrative of a market psychology. It's all how we each see the end product. I do like your chart. I did have to explode it to see my Targets (old AND new) (which I post below). (Don't worry about an under-whelming response to charts, I get plenty, traders show what THEY see, while...
This is what George has been talking basically, market expands and contracts ad infinitum. So the previous highs and lows will be taken sooner or later. The previous swings are the guidelines for the future swings and now here comes "intent". Intent where would price expand to first, so in George's last post he said to always check for the consolidation then manipulation followed by the real move or intent.
Quoting kamikazen
{quote}
This is what George has been talking basically, market expands and contracts ad infinitum.
So the previous highs and lows will be taken sooner or later. The previous swings are the guidelines for the future swings and now here comes "intent".
Intent where would price expand to first, so in George's last post he said to always check for the consolidation then manipulation followed by the real move or intent.

Hi kamik

Yep sounds pretty right to me, the consolidation I call Inflections (also) with those green circles, from the pic on my home page.
The manipulation I just call Fake N Flip.
They're only words lol but have some meaning to me.
Today was pretty much on par, the ADR has been run.
Mik grabbed the run up in Asia and posted his chart early this morning.

I have a major Inflection (BW's maths) now down at 1.35430, the last major one was just hit before at 1.36040
(these are separate to George's Swing Targets)
I hope the runner waits till tomorrow but doesn't really matter
(after they fake back higher again, who knows, we can only watch & consider)

(I have seen them double the ADR, but I'm done In Oz here, tired, and hitting the sack)

.
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Quoting kamikazen
{quote}
Wow. Tells a lot. Who would have thought that previous highs and lows were George's targets. Mind blowing.

Hahaaa, yes it was a mind blowing event alrigh

When you open up the chart LARGE you can see it better (the chart I posted two above I mean, that the kamik's post above referenced).


We can see it wasn't just a 15m George's Target chart,

It's was a DAILY chart.


That was the infamous Flash Crash of the yens way back on the 2nd trading day of the New Year Jan in 2019.


I was awake lol and had just opened up my early morning Asia charts (I wasn't trading at that time of course, spread were very wide) and I was just watching when
all hell broke loose.

Moody, George & I had a chat about it later that day as I remember and George said "open up your charts" wide (daily) and see where price went straight down to AND hit his PRE-Target which was way back about 18 months earlier (tipping the top of the major gap that had just been sitting there not closed).

It was a real teaser for me in those early days. When a real "flash" event occurs they can drop it any price.
(this one was around 400 pips, 4000 points lol, and happened in a couple of minutes before flying back up).

George said something like if it had dropped 100 pips okay, 200 pips okay, 300 pips

BUT 400 pips and directly TO an OPEN TARGET of his (George had his active 4HR thick line targets STILL on his charts as he always did until they were taken out)
This flash "ran almost to the pipette" to take out his target.

From then on I watched all George's Targets (but I dont draw them back the 4000 candles or so that George does) and for the past 3 years they "tap" his Targets relentlessly.

The real beauty to George's targets is even deeper.

George was emphatic that the Market is Fractal,
his Targets are on all charts & timeframes.
I had to think hard on that one lol, so might anyone


All the best TO ALL as we enter triple swap day, they gotta do something big in the next 3 days you'd reckon, maybe,
but who knows, that's the fun of watching & waiting.

Okay final chart that might visually explain some things being chatted about using George's Targets,
following a potential entry point setup


First a consolidation setup in green at top (which I just call Inflection Points, which are build ups TO potential breakways)

THEN the market manipulation (which I just call a Fake N Flip - a burst then a reverse back in the opposite direction)

then a TP (large round green area at bottom) at George's next Target in the trade direction (it was 11p) (but I squibbed and got out early at 8˝p, but thats just me sorry, tp is tp )


(These are not brilliant trades that I wish to show, at all, pretty bland and average to my eye, NO whoopeee doo, I put them up here merely as a visual explanation of what I could work out and have been jibbering about for the past 4 weeks, enough I know, thx for ur patience)

(Hi V, hope this clarifies something for you)

.
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skinny return, but thats me, what I end up doing, maybe the GU moves are not over we'll see, patience
I scalp, no 40 pip runners in my toolkit, others will tho

.
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I heartfully believe that anybody who is in this forum looking for answers is not LAZY.

He is a survivor and he will not stop until he conquer himself in the face of the overwhelming "market".

Keep up buddy, we can do it!

Special thanks to Timetells for his charts because I also believe that traders are operators. They do the action themselves and nothing is more informative than visuals.

Cheers sir! I am hoping that you are enjoying your retirement on the enormous bosoms of the "market".
Hi kamik, thank you sir much appreciated, good fortunes to you
Quoting TimeTells
Okay final chart that might visually explain some things being chatted about using George's Targets, following a potential entry point setup First a consolidation setup in green at top (which I just call Inflection Points, which are build ups TO potential breakways) THEN the market manipulation (which I just call a Fake N Flip - a burst then a reverse back in the opposite direction) then a TP (large round green area at bottom) at George's next Target in the trade direction (it was 11p) (but I squibbed and got out early at 8˝p, but thats just me...
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George’s Target Theory of Non-Random Market Mechanics Control - on a Chart


Big picture view of the market expansions

(chart attached below)

ADR reached - tick
Precise range moves right TO reaching the targets, both high & low - tick
Fractal target behaviour within the full control area - tick


But is it SIMPLE and easy TO TRADE ALL THIS - WITHIN THE MARKET MOVES
----------- NO TICK, SORRY


When we look at the final run up on the following chart up to the highest Herd Lineup, then to the low of the day,
does that really look in any way “random” (rhetorical),

on my mt4, on the closest 1min candle to the top, it ‘gapped itself up’ to the Target 1.36620, 0.4 pips above the herd lineups from two days earlier at 1.36616

Job was then done by the controlled market, and price went off all the way back down, to the late low, again at a target half a pip from the day opening 1hr candle low.

.
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Simply put George’s (non fake) (non magic) simple Horizontal Target Lines

are ALWAYS on the charts
and they’re all ‘sitting there’, all lined up … well BEFORE any trade.

whether we see them all, or see even one of them, requires our eyes.

and observation over time () tells me that our market … MUST (ie I believe it has to),
also run against directional candles at points in time towards its real move

which is often contrary to what a template or indi DIRECTION is showing AT THE TIME.

(and at that time folks might well call it “random”, or throw arms in the air and say “how can we trade this market” but, if the market has to do it, then how can we call it random - it is just “appearing” as random)


Trading all of this George target theory is a very tough piece of work, in the trenches, of course, no question
but George never really wanted to teach a trader how to trade all this (imho)

He just wanted to show what he called his Market Reality.

So, unless you’re "right down in the pits" with actual real volume data at your fingertips showing you each tick data move from the major players, as it is happening,
then a trader might have to find themselves another market way of trading.

That’s up to each trader.
(and cheers to you again, George).
Quoting TimeTells
Simply put George’s (non fake) (non magic) simple Horizontal Target Lines are ALWAYS on the charts and they’re all ‘sitting there’, all lined up … well BEFORE any trade. whether we see them all, or see even one of them, requires our eyes. and observation over time () tells me that our market … MUST (ie I believe it has to), also run against directional candles at points in time towards its real move which is often contrary to what a template or indi DIRECTION is showing AT THE TIME. (and at that time folks might well call it “random”, or throw...

At the moment Pete you are producing the best work on Forex Factory.
In keeping with George philosophy of keeping cool when challenged by the naysayers that shows a level of understanding and comfort in your own trading.
People have to understand that the moves that you have demonstrated on 1min occur on all timeframes.
I trade H1, same targets, different entry but the targets remain the same.
Price has to return.
The challenge is in the timing!
Hahaa, too kind Moody, thank your sir. I have gotten as much FROM people's contributions here on FF, as I have given back.


Plus,
you can say it all sometimes in just ONE sentence,
which takes me paragraphs to do, so cheers pal


Quoting moodybot
{quote}
Price has to return.
The challenge is in the timing!

(ps and I take it that your whole raft & basket of pairs all came through after New York last night, while I was asleep in the cot
- ie your GBPJPY was a near perfect finish this morning, from your art-work charts as I remember them )
Quoting TimeTells
Hahaa, too kind Moody, thank your sir. I have gotten as much FROM people's contributions here on FF, as I have given back. Plus, you can say it all sometimes in just ONE sentence, which takes me paragraphs to do, so cheers pal {quote} (ps and I take it that your whole raft & basket of pairs all came through after New York last night, while I was asleep in the cot - ie your GBPJPY was a near perfect finish this morning, from your art-work charts as I remember them )
Regular as clockwork Pete.
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