Price action at the core = family members' discussion project

'When you study charts look for the motive behind the action which the chart portrays. Aim to interpret the behavior of the market and of stocks not the fanciful patterns ("gaps," "horns," "flags," "pennants," etc.) which the charts may accidentally form.'
~ Richard D Wyckoff

Hello everyone gentlemen!

I haven't posted in this thread for a long time. I studied this topic and George's last thread too. I learned a lot from George, thank you mate! I want to appeal to beginners, this trade is not for you. It's hard to trade on returns. it takes skill. Sometimes targets don't work and you get caught. Even George wrote that he was caught and therefore he changed tactics .. I did not understand why there was so much criticism against him. There are many subtleties about the goals that George did not mention, he does not tell everything. He tries to get traders to turn on their brains and think for themselves. This takes a lot of time and experience. As for me, I found my way. I no longer catch falling arrows, but look for smart money)

best regards Michael

Hi Milk

Therefore if George changed his tactic's, you are saying his first trading method was a failure.
You mentioned some targets don't work, will that's more prove his trading method was a failure.

Did George not mention all his little secrets - perhaps there wasn't any secrets to begin with and therefore more reason to call his work a failure.

So we get to the real truth here that almost everyone including George that was trading his first thread's strategy failed badly.

What's my point?

To make money catching falling arrows his way, we need to accept his thread was a failure in showing a trader how to achieve this goal - for one reason.
George didn't understand what his own ultimate findings actually meant. If he had just looked at a Future's chart for two minutes during a big move, I believe he "may have been able to join the dots" and explained how his strategy worked in plain english without using riddles.

He never bothered to look outside his narrow vision, he would never listen to different viewpoints and never could explain what his ultimate findings were from one day to the next.

I feel he failed you and wasted your time, thats very sad.

I wish you all the best in your current trading journey.

Hi to all,

Everyone took what they could from George's studies of the whole Market Mechanics concept from top to bottom.

Which George layed out time & time again.

I also worked past any trading methodolgy that came along with George's package, and that is personal preference,
(again we all have our of this own, nothing wrong with that at all).

But

George's Market Mechanics were spot on then (to my eyes) and still are today, in every chart and timeframe I view.



Then there are other times when a(nother) trader says something to me once, and I nod and probably move on.

If that same person tells me their same thing a second time, my ears prick up, and I take notice and then investigate.

Both BWilliam & Ryuryu have mentioned (many) times on various threads that the market is mathematical.
So I investigated as best I could, for over three months. And in my view they are both absolutely correct.

When I did employ maths, two things happened (for me),
- they seem to end up at the areas on the chart where George first showed the mechanics of the markets.
- and the maths then became, NOT so much the prime objective but an indication towards certain chart "zones" in which trading is very viable, for me.
(well I do like to pinpoint a line when I can, but that is not so important to actual trading imho)

So thks George, BW & Ry for getting me to unbind some of my thinking, and mainly to George for laying out how the markets continue to operate day in day out.


We all naturally gravitate to who & what we align with best. eg Andy/Moody & I have a certain common view of what is likely to transpire in the future (up to 24hrs), while RickM's work in the 1minute hole with external vols is as fascinating an insight into tradability and cross market participation that I can see.


But I can always hang my own hat on George's market "concepts" and leave any actual trading methods,
via whatever indis or templates etc etc, up to my own preferences.

Outside of that, and at risk of repeating myself, when it comes down to pushing the buy or sell button and subsequently take a profit or close at loss,

imho it is still OURSELVES that is the final determinator of successes, not someone who guided us out of the forex fog.

trade well folks, still an interesting thread to me from all the contributions

Every single strategy not system , has it own weekness , and the guru flawed , connecting the dots of the strategy with the trader psycology will be much complex
true , look at the sky any body can see the clowd with difference images , some times the guru that tought the strategy didnt see the knuckle that connecting
these is why there is lottta ff TS goes in vain , in the most generous trading strategy as TA ( naked ) has way too many principal to trade it , isnt that funny , one guy has short signal TA and the other got Long Singnal TA . So it pretty much every body game ... well thats what they said BID and ASK ....
Dint see George for awhile where did he go

if I may ... entryyy find the entryyy ... once you find ... you can never leave ( the eagle hotel california )

I must say I never read George's thread. Since there are no math involved but only drawings, feelings, seeing, predictions and other magic stuff i don't want to waste time on this.
Let's say if the approach uses open, close, high and low data only I'm not interested at all. If there are no even one small formula - not interested too. All these concepts... I can share a link to the website where are more than thousand "strategies" absolutely free. You can try them all to understand that you can mix open, close, high and low data at any ratio you like but there are no positive expectation.

Hi R,

I had to stop reading at that first sentence sorry (joking)



The markets are precision bound, maths, yes.
BW had it nailed.

Though that is only the beginning, as maths is NOT trading.

Trading is WHAT WE DO with our info.


And George's targets concepts were a joy to behold, over & over.
All timeframes all charts.

But they are also NOT trading.
Again, trading is what we do with our info.


And I often think to myself, that's the end point where traders can get stuck.

They might have the maths
but how to trade it is a new lesson again.

They might have the obvious target lines that the market will (HAS) to go to
but how to trade it is a new lesson again.


Which is why I keep my mind OPEN to all folk and what folks say

[quote=RickM;13858043]{quote} Hi Milk Therefore if George changed his tactic's, you are saying his first trading method was a failure. You mentioned some targets don't work, will that's more prove his trading method was …

hi Rick!

thanks for the comment and questions. I did not say that I failed. I just addressed to beginners that it is dangerous to start trading George's methods without much experience and knowledge of how the market works. George went to this for 20 years to this, he succeeded and he gave me a lot of useful information.. George opened my mind, so to speak, I sometimes successfully use his TMA 1min, and MA. You can use the George method as one of the filters. I am grateful to his thread, where I met many great traders, he brought together good traders. I am grateful to you too, Rick for everything, you told me a lot and I am also grateful to Profifarmer))) Through the traders of this branch, I got to ICT, from which I learn, and to Bilal. I have learned a lot of new things. Rick, you are a beacon for me in general, I am subscribed to you and sometimes you throw me new interesting people.

cheers Michael

Targets appear dynamically when there are some situation with buys and sells. It can't be predicted.
For example you draw your line and wish the price will hit it. It is magical thinking. The price can hit it but not because you have drawn the line.
That's what I'm talking about.

Let me show example


1. We have found good entry using some rules (it doesn't matter what rules etc, just for example).
2. We set take profit at the blue line. Because there are round number, tweet from Elon Musk with price, support/res level that we calculated with no volume data etc

So what?

Why price should go there? Yes it can. Or it will not.

Now. Lets remove the fog of war a little.


oh, we have stochastic signals (red diamonds). May be this is the place to start closing the position?

Now lets totally remove the fog of war and look at volume delta


Yes, that is correct place to exit. It there any purpose to wait more for our blue line? Nope. There is no purpose. It will be too risky, and time spending. Since time = money there is no sense to hold the position more. Check the market and find a new entry.

Hi R,

Good charts in my eyes, thank you.

And while, YES, you are correct with the first part, there definitely ARE dynamic targets.

But what many still don’t grasp, even when proven and shown in advance, is that there are ALSO static targets.
(George showed his over and over, on chart after chart, for months)



But it took me over three months to prove one thing to MYSELF, and that is

Because the market is highly organised (maths) it “has” to hit the static line

Think about it, if price rises/drops it MUST get there to the static line …. ‘someday’ …

"Well so what’s the point of trading that way" many traders will ask
As the issue those traders have is that “SOMEDAY” is just not viable for THEIR trading
(but is that just limited thinking?)


I missed the vital ingredient … INTENT

But BW nailed it.

He gave me one clue which I had to think about .

https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...6#post13687526

https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...2#post13687532

https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...4#post13687534


Everyone has their own methodology (& charts) for trading.

The point many fail to grasp, I think, is even with their “acceptance” of a true market HIGH organisation (maths)
is that ..
The market can then be traded “towards” that MAGIC ( lol) line,
as well as reversal trading away from that magic line (50/50).


Look at your own magic blue lines, for example, on your charts.

Do you see that you can (well, are) trading towards it.


That is the fullest market mechanics understanding (cheers George).
So none of us should maybe limit our current understandings.


When I enter a trade its always on the 1min chart.

But a separate 1hr chart is where I plan for the (trading) future based on combo of the maths & targets.


All the best with your method, R, you seem to have something good going for you.

But please NEVER misunderstand one thing.

There is NOT just ONE way to trade these markets successfully.

PS

And yes I agree that Magic CAN be when a person is tricked by someone's sleight of hand

Yet it can ALSO be when something very real happens, but the mind can’t quite grasp it yet

The key is to KNOW the difference

Good trading to all

Hi Timetells

George's work will soon be lost in history, he himself has lost interest in trading, doesn't read forex factory any longer and has retired to go fishing.

It may be up to you to continue his legacy and keep his Target theory alive.
I can't think of a better person to perform that task.

Otherwise - a gem will be forever lost, and it will be confused with some sort of wacky demand and supply theory.
That would be a tragedy

Hi Rick & folks,
cheers lol.

This another big post sorry, but how else can I say things without doing it this way.

I'll artificially break it into two, as even speed reading it back to myself I couldn't do it in one sitting.

- - - -

Yes, George’s Target Theory was his first Thread.

Sublime in its simplicity and yet detailed in its master view of the whole market operation from top to tail including all and any timeframes.


[Suppy & demand, of course, and well just who is it would be supplying and just who would it be demanding if in fact they are pretty much the same source lol, well of course just in george’s mind, Andy/Moody I know for sure, BW and others and imho also].


There is much, much more to it naturally but meaningful discussions are often just too clumsy (which probably explains why you Rick, or certainly me, have never started a thread).

Could you imagine being tied to the skirt of a thread. Day after day.

Yet George did it, and then he started a second thread wanting to I guess display his maths findings with the fibo extensions (with his wave cycles, but I have studied nothing on that sorry).

- - -

As a clinical observation I personally cannot think of a better way of seeing our charts other than in the Targets, targets, targets.

I mean think about it folks.


If (?) (and the if is the determinator for each trader) the market IS heading towards or away from a target what more do we really want

Well I know exactly what “MORE” it is that people want, and that is the whole dilemma of this trading.


Folks want to know, and there are at least 10,000+ threads on the Factory with all readers hoping for the one single perfect answer.

“Where & when do I enter my trade - and based on what accurate signal.”


Well other traders might be able to help with that answer, but I can’t. My entry is NOT based on a signal that has just NOW happened. I am watching for what Pumi posted back a couple of days ago from Wyckoff - which is MOTIVE.

Now if we don’t believe that the markets are highly organised then how can we even contemplate ‘motive’ as a useful variable. So that’s where all the trading camps split apart I guess.


It really is each to their own in the markets I reckon and I don’t mean that discourteously. It means we each will have a view of how the markets work and we will trade to that accordingly.


INTERESTINGLY though. Any “opposite view” camps could still ALL be taking the VERY SAME trade in the very same direction at the very same time, yet in their minds for different reasons (that’s a wow moment lol).

I put up charts here pretty much for over three weeks back in December and that’s about it for me. If the thread disappears someone in the future will read it and say who are these idiots lol, or maybe they will say OKAY I Get It. It doesn’t matter. They were however George's inspirations.

I still love reading posts, any threads & trading & discussing a little & listening to the music on FF.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Part Two

[Now should I or shouldn’t I, I don’t see why George would mind, as that man is an absolute gem of a human being - and I still have contact every so often - and we don’t ever chat about the charts any more.

What more could we say about them. It would be like talking about whether the sun came up again in the east this morning, the charts are that repetitive - and they are also repetitive in their apparent randomness which perpetually stuffs around with the minds of a trader.


But I digress

GEORGE

He had a serious situation with his health, his ticker. So he went to specialists. Long periods. He didn’t totally agree what they were recommending for him ie take these pills etc for the rest of your life etc.


So, George ... did what George always DOES.

He bloody went back home and “studied” the heart at its deepest levels.

And he asked me one day did I know the heart was an “electric” system - well I hadn’t ever heard that, but once listening to George and then investigating for myself it is fact and it also has changed MY view (again, thks George) on the heart now, that sits in our chest cavity.

It turned out George put in his 10,000 hours again (), In his ‘heart study’ and eventually went back to the specialist and “taught” lol the specialist a thing or two about diet modifications and other essential activities that an individual could do themselves outside of just the prescription route.

That’s our George lol.

Successful business man, he was a professional designer/cutter also (clothes) and also architect lol as he had personally designed his own house in WA from top to bottom, interior, direction facing, cladding etc - and the only thing he really didn’t do was BUILD THE HOUSE HIMSELF with his OWN hands.

That’s our George again lol.


There have been and will always quite often be challenges to the principles George developed, while I believe myself they will stand the test of time.

- - - -

The ONLY thing then a trader has to do, after any study of anything Forex, is to work out WHEN to enter their own trade.

When they do that successfully, they themselves have become the owner of their own success.

Good fortunes traders (and good fortunes George)

Doesn't it seem strange to analyze supply and demand using average close value of candlestick indicator only?

Doesn't it look like if a doctor diagnosed any disease using patient height data only?

The same about fixed targets. It is just impossible. It is like to say that any basketball player must hit the basket every 30 seconds. But why? There are defensive players, they don't attack. The ball can be outside or too far away etc etc

Hi R,

Your analogy about the basketballer doesn't really make sense to me, in regards to targets.

A better analogy that might help you understand it is this.


If you use the "hit the basket" analogy think of any player throwing the ball "towards" their teams basket.

The ball (price) will head "towards" the basket. It might not go through the hoop, it might hit the backboard etc. But it WILL go towards the target.

Unless of course they throw the ball in their opponents direction. (Like a sell instead of a buy).

The ball will then head "towards" the other basket, but it WILL head towards it.

In Forex all targets exist BOTH above current price AND below current price.


In fact, on the charts you posted the first thing that jumped right out at me was George's Targets, and how price on your charts took them out.

On your own charts

Cheers R,

https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...8#post13817378

The link to this post above shows a chart of some (not all) of George's Targets.
(I only drew in some of the 1hr targets, where george would have them all, incl 15m and 4hr)


George would draw them on his 15m chart, 1hr chart, 4hr chart and daily (the 4hr was in BOLD print if I remember so it stood out)

he only traded though from a 1min chart which did NOT have these lines on them, he had a vertical split screen of 3 timeframes ONE pair only he loved GBPJPY (a 'killer' pair if you dont know what it can do daily)

As a target was reached it became redundant the next day, and REMOVED from his charts, so the only lines still on his charts were targets that had not yet been reached, and were considered "active" targets.

These targets (this is all from his first thread - similar name) were his "swing point targets"

I know the answer. Because that "target" was drawn


In my opinion it is 100% magical thinking and curve fitting. There is nothing to "learn" here. There is no data to analyze.
The proof is that bottom line. There were NO data at the moment of placing the "target". That line was drawn LATER, but it PFOOF the exit point!!! (!)

I just wonder how the world people believe in that

Targets do not appear spontaneously. look closely at the chart. On the gray lines, where do they come from? why is the price going down for them?George doesn't teach this

Cheers M

hi Pete!

I enjoy reading your posts…..and about music too)) I know that you are George's friend. Give him a big hello from me. I didn’t know that he built the house himself, I also built the house myself)) You are a cool dude and I like your music!

Best regards Michael