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  • #6,241
  • Jan 4, 2022 7:21pm Jan 4, 2022 7:21pm
Quoting mizi123
''Welcome to hell'': Only 4% of founded traders are lucky to get their 1st profit split and just 8 funded traders on the list scary.... and many many more comparation here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPEVvpQcaoU
lots of nuggets here, though...
most successful traders at MFF:

don't hold over weekends, or even overnight...

risk no more than 3% a day(too high, imo)...
  • #6,242
  • Edited 8:18pm Jan 4, 2022 7:45pm | Edited 8:18pm
Quoting doyathink
{quote} lots of nuggets here, though... most successful traders at MFF: don't hold over weekends, or even overnight... risk no more than 3% a day(too high, imo)...
You can grind out 1-1.5% per week, while never risking more than 3% of allowable DD per trade. I really do not understand the folks violating daily DD rules. The entire point of getting funded with a prop is to earn great money with LOWER risk than you could on your own. If you max out FTMO and MFF, you have 1 million equity, 112K in DD. Risking 3% of allowable loss per trade is $3,360, your daily DD is 50K. If you go 0 for 3 on the day, you've lost 1.25%. I truly do not understand what folks are trying to accomplish. You do not need to make a million dollars your first month.
  • #6,243
  • Jan 4, 2022 7:49pm Jan 4, 2022 7:49pm
People seem to have a really hard time grasping that, probably why so few manage to do it.
  • #6,244
  • Jan 4, 2022 8:22pm Jan 4, 2022 8:22pm
Quoting EnoFX
People seem to have a really hard time grasping that, probably why so few manage to do it.
Same exact reason people blow up their personal accounts as well. It's almost as if everyone needs a money management class. If your MM is on, you only need a slight edge to be profitable.
  • #6,245
  • Jan 4, 2022 9:09pm Jan 4, 2022 9:09pm
Quoting MichaelFTP
My point is that funded traders will treat the account as an asset of the business, best practice is the build up to a point where the account size can generate, with moderate risk, a regular pay out that meets the trader's needs. Taking ALL the profit out does not do that.
-Traders can and should treat the account as an asset, and taking out profits should not prohibit them from doing that. The only reason that it does in this case, is because of how the program is structured.

Draw-down allowance is king. When you force a trader to use their own profits to serve as draw-down, then guess what?...they are not really funded anymore; they are trading with their own money and you are collecting 20% of the profits.
  • #6,246
  • Jan 4, 2022 9:59pm Jan 4, 2022 9:59pm
Reasons why most people blow up:

 

  1. They cannot overcome the temptation to fully-maximize profit potential. Furthermore, they want to make 1K/day or more of profit and instead of doing that with multiple accounts to reduce risk, they are trying to do it with a single account.

  1. People are trading as if they have a 100K account, even though the account is actually only about 5K due to draw-down allowance.

  1. When people lose, they go heavier to try to recover as quickly as possible. This is psychology at work and this idea of pleasure vs. pain has been studied to great lengths.

  1. The most obvious reason...they are simply not ready to be trading live funds and are too impatient and/or lazy to put in the time and work that is necessary.


I can surmise this based on observations of what other people are doing/saying, and also after years of trading and failing along the way. It takes time to learn, as well as discipline and sometimes even a few concessions. If traders are not learning from their failures, then they are bound to keep repeating them.

If you are lazy and/or impatient and do not want to put in the time, then you will likely struggle a lot. Which is why most people 'fail'. As I said before, although the statistics are true, most people do not 'fail' at trading, they 'quit' at trading before they ever learn what is necessary to be successful, and traders are more likely to quit if they insist on taking shortcuts.

Maybe carpentry can be a learn-as-you-go type of trade. Brain surgery, not so much. For trading, I guess it depends on how much disposable cash you have to burn. But no matter what it is, it takes time to master anything meaningful. Trading education can be as cheap or as expensive as you want it to be, but it takes time.

  • #6,247
  • Jan 5, 2022 4:09am Jan 5, 2022 4:09am
Strange situation with mff, support has gone missing, ghosting everyone by any means of communication they get reached, I mean they were always way below subpar, but at this point they behave like an exit scam on the works, unacceptable.

Is there not a third contender in this space? Any thoughts about the funded trader? Someone else?
  • #6,248
  • Jan 5, 2022 4:42am Jan 5, 2022 4:42am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Traders can and should treat the account as an asset, and taking out profits should not prohibit them from doing that. The only reason that it does in this case, is because of how the program is structured. Draw-down allowance is king. When you force a trader to use their own profits to serve as draw-down, then guess what?...they are not really funded anymore; they are trading with their own money and you are collecting 20% of the profits.
We allow traders to withdraw at any time they are in profit. The drawdown stops and becomes fixed at the account size. We try to be pragmatic, a no-drawdown account would not be possible, no prop firm business model would last long. There has to be a balance. Our good news is that we are staring to see traders doing well on our accounts and we have a new funded trader this week. We are trying hard and our customer satisfaction is really high. I've done a post on this here: https://www.fundedtradingplus.com/fu...ng-plus-review
  • #6,249
  • Jan 5, 2022 4:44am Jan 5, 2022 4:44am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} The point of not taking all the profit out makes sense when BUILDING YOUR OWN ACCOUNT. I do not need a prop firm if I need to keep my profits in. Look at FTMO and MFF if you plan on becoming successful in this business. All of us trading live accounts and earning significant money use these two firms. I would love to add a third, however, it has to be as good or better than their offerings. Been searching for over 6 months.
To clarrify: you can withdraw on our accounts ANY profit above account start size. If you'd like to chat directly, please let me know.
  • #6,250
  • Jan 5, 2022 4:52am Jan 5, 2022 4:52am
Quoting Artcool
{quote} I think you miss the main point of why traders might be interested in the prop firm model.
I hope not, we've developed our programs because we have direct contact every day with real traders through our Trade Room Plus business. We may have a miscommunication or a misunderstanding of our communication that may lead you to thinking we do something different. I am really happy to discuss because getting our communication right is a big priority for me. Come on our live chat and we can discuss. https://www.fundedtradingplus.com/
  • #6,251
  • Jan 5, 2022 5:57am Jan 5, 2022 5:57am
Quoting MichaelFTP
{quote} To clarrify: you can withdraw on our accounts ANY profit above account start size. If you'd like to chat directly, please let me know.
But if you withraw all profits then your drawdown is 0$.

Myff and ftmo allow to withdraw everything every month and they keep on working. This idea of yours is total bullshit.
Anything above the line is an uptrend, below the line is a downtrend.
  • #6,252
  • Jan 5, 2022 6:00am Jan 5, 2022 6:00am
Quoting Degolep
{quote} But if you withraw all profits then your drawdown is 0$. Myff and ftmo allow to withdraw everything every month and they keep on working. This idea of yours is total bullshit.
That's like Top Step Trader Forex. Not a good model. From the moment the max loss = initial balance one is just risking his earned money and not getting 100% of the profits. There are way better models over there. Trailing stop is something to avoid.
  • #6,253
  • Jan 5, 2022 7:08am Jan 5, 2022 7:08am
Quoting Degolep
{quote} But if you withraw all profits then your drawdown is 0$. Myff and ftmo allow to withdraw everything every month and they keep on working. This idea of yours is total bullshit.
Oh dear - you cannot grasp simple money management. Profit is different from starting capital. But never mind - you go your own way but don't criticise others due to your failure to grasp the basics of trading.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #6,254
  • Jan 5, 2022 7:34am Jan 5, 2022 7:34am
Quoting MichaelFTP
{quote} We allow traders to withdraw at any time they are in profit. The drawdown stops and becomes fixed at the account size. We try to be pragmatic, a no-drawdown account would not be possible, no prop firm business model would last long. There has to be a balance. Our good news is that we are staring to see traders doing well on our accounts and we have a new funded trader this week. We are trying hard and our customer satisfaction is really high. I've done a post on this here: https://www.fundedtradingplus.com/fu...ng-plus-review...

I'm not sure u r thinking from traders point of view as well. In ur advanced model u r offering 10% dd, and after making that %of profit trail did will stopped at be . Like for 100k acc after making 10k profit trailing did will stopped. Now trader has 10k actually in prop acc. Bcz if balance go below 100k acc will close. Point is why trader will keep that in ur acc and making profit for u. Better if all withdrawn he will get 8k and trade with him own. With much relaxed condition and no need to share 20%of profit with u as well
  • #6,255
  • Jan 5, 2022 7:57am Jan 5, 2022 7:57am
Quoting inversio
{quote} I'm not sure u r thinking from traders point of view as well. In ur advanced model u r offering 10% dd, and after making that %of profit trail did will stopped at be . Like for 100k acc after making 10k profit trailing did will stopped. Now trader has 10k actually in prop acc. Bcz if balance go below 100k acc will close. Point is why trader will keep that in ur acc and making profit for u. Better if all withdrawn he will get 8k and trade with him own. With much relaxed condition and no need to share 20%of profit with u as well
Right, the "asset" is the 100K account I qualified for. I'm leaving my "asset" in place and only withdrawing the profits above that. If I do this, the account will close. That is not a good deal for the trader at all, locking in my own DD. If I want to scale up, I'll take more challenges and/or use additional prop firms.
  • #6,256
  • Jan 5, 2022 8:27am Jan 5, 2022 8:27am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} Oh dear - you cannot grasp simple money management. Profit is different from starting capital. But never mind - you go your own way but don't criticise others due to your failure to grasp the basics of trading.
Don't be butthurt if I talk shit about your friends prop firm, they have a bad business model, period. We all agree on that you are the only one defending them.
Anything above the line is an uptrend, below the line is a downtrend.
  • #6,257
  • Jan 5, 2022 8:51am Jan 5, 2022 8:51am
I think you have to look at it from the perspective of these prop firms. I don't think it's unreasonable for a business to want to minimise their risk. Clearly these firms need specific rules and mechanisms, not just so they make money but also so they don't lose money. No matter how you skin it, whether they're trailing the drawdown or not, they are still giving you access to 100k, that's funds they have tied up just for you. A firm that want's to lower their risk as soon as possible isn't necessarily a bad company, in fact from their perspective they are probably trying to protect their capital and thus all their funded traders.

Most of the major firms aren't putting traders in the real market, ergo the drawdown is irrelevant because they pay the winners from the losers. In fact, I'm convinced that they prefer it if you hit the drawdown because that means they don't have to pay you out. You also lose your account and spend more money with them. In broker terms these prop firms are essentially creating their own book, this may sound great for the trader... until the music stops like it did with Funding Talent. At that point there aren't enough losers to pay the winners. That's what happens when you don't put traders in the actual market. This is why, in my opinion, firms that put the traders in the real market (but actually do, rather than just say they do) should have that taken into consideration when measuring them as a reputable company. You could argue that it doesn't functionally matter so long as the trader is paid out, which I suppose it's a valid argument - until that prop company can't pay the winners of course.

On the face of it, it looks like Funded Trading Plus are putting their traders in the actual market, I'll be eager to see what the experience of one of their actual funded traders is like.
  • #6,258
  • Jan 5, 2022 8:59am Jan 5, 2022 8:59am
Quoting fragglefusio
I think you have to look at it from the perspective of these prop firms. I don't think it's unreasonable for a business to want to minimise their risk. Clearly these firms need specific rules and mechanisms, not just so they make money but also so they don't lose money. No matter how you skin it, whether they're trailing the drawdown or not, they are still giving you access to 100k, that's funds they have tied up just for you. A firm that want's to lower their risk as soon as possible isn't necessarily a bad company, in fact from their perspective...
But with these types of firms, where you have to leave your profit in or the "scaling" models where your fee is greater the DD offered serve absolutely no purpose to the trader. You don't need a prop firm to accomplish what they are proposing....JUST TRADE YOUR OWN CAPITAL. I've been trading with FTMO since June 2020 and MFF since August 2021. These are the only two firms offering any value to the trader.
  • #6,259
  • Jan 5, 2022 9:50am Jan 5, 2022 9:50am
Quoting MichaelFTP
We allow traders to withdraw at any time they are in profit. The drawdown stops and becomes fixed at the account size. We try to be pragmatic, a no-drawdown account would not be possible, no prop firm business model would last long.
-Respectfully, you are not fooling anyone. I never suggested to provide the kind of account that you are talking about. What you are doing is forcing the trader to use his/her profits to serve as 100% of the draw-down allowance. The moment that you do that, you are no longer funding the trader...the trader is trading with their own money! And they should continue trading with you, giving you their profits?

Quoting fragglefusio
I think you have to look at it from the perspective of these prop firms. I don't think it's unreasonable for a business to want to minimise their risk. Clearly these firms need specific rules and mechanisms, not just so they make money but also so they don't lose money. No matter how you skin it, whether they're trailing the drawdown or not, they are still giving you access to 100k, that's funds they have tied up just for you.
-Please see above.
  • #6,260
  • Edited 10:08am Jan 5, 2022 9:56am | Edited 10:08am
Quoting Degolep
{quote} Don't be butthurt if I talk shit about your friends prop firm, they have a bad business model, period. We all agree on that you are the only one defending them.
I have no affiliation with them but was impressed that they do not follow the usual fee seeking model prop firm where failures to reach 'targets' are the main profit driver as opposed to prop firms nurturing traders to a profit sharing objective.
I also appreciate that there are those here who resent others disturbing their cosy cabal hence the unwarranted attacks on those who dare post a contrary view.
One can only say; try each firm rather than be swayed by the propaganda of the vested interests of the verbal attack dogs, or the simply ignorant, on this thread.
Good luck in your search.
Degolep -good luck with your study of money management and trading in general. Judging by your written content English is not your native language but I think I understood. Just remember that joining a prop firm will not make you successful: You have to be profitable in your own right before trying to get a prop firm to finance you.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
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