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Confused - Stochastic Question?

  • #41
  • Dec 7, 2021 2:28pm Dec 7, 2021 2:28pm
[quote=yoriz;13815564]{quote} Yes, please do compare the values in both charts. Use the "Data Window" (Ctrl-D) tool and read out the values in both charts. You will see that the values might be similar, but not identical. The calculations are different, hence the output is different. {quote}

The reason for this is that the H1 candle only closes once, but the M15 closes 4 times during the same hour. The Ma and the stoch is calculated on the closing price of those candles. It can be calculated in other ways of course, but this is what I used.
This is why it cant be identical closing price wise, only the first Open price and last Close price of the M15 candles will be the same as Open/Cose price of the H1 candle. But the movement of the indicators are similar over the same hour.
  • #42
  • Dec 7, 2021 2:39pm Dec 7, 2021 2:39pm
Quoting OneandOnly66
The reason for this is that the H1 candle only closes once, but the M15 closes 4 times during the same hour. The Ma and the stoch is calculated on the closing price of those candles. It can be calculated in other ways of course, but this is what I used. This is why it cant be identical closing price wise, only the first Open price and last Close price of the M15 candles will be the same as Open/Cose price of the H1 candle. But the movement of the indicators are similar over the same hour.


I was trying to tell them that on 2 pages. No success. Don't waste your time my friend. Let them live in the wonderland where indicators are using magic data from another dimension. If "trader" registered in 2016 still can't understand how stochastic works then medicine is powerless here.
Observer effect
  • #43
  • Dec 7, 2021 2:42pm Dec 7, 2021 2:42pm
Quoting OneandOnly66
This is why it cant be identical [...] But the movement of the indicators are similar over the same hour.
Exactly! That is what I have been saying all this time. The approximation might be good enough for some to be useful for trading, but the values are not exactly the same as the actual higher timeframe indicator.
  • #44
  • Dec 7, 2021 3:01pm Dec 7, 2021 3:01pm
Quoting yoriz
{quote} Exactly! That is what I have been saying all this time. The approximation might be good enough for some to be useful for trading, but the values are not exactly the same as the actual higher timeframe indicator.

Sure, depending on how one uses the indicators values to trade it will or will not mater if the indicator have 2 or more open/close prices during the same time.
I think this is more or less how you slice an apple, its still the same apple to begin with though.
  • #45
  • Dec 7, 2021 3:11pm Dec 7, 2021 3:11pm
Quoting OneandOnly66
Sure, depending on how one uses the indicators values to trade it will or will not mater if the indicator have 2 or more open/close prices during the same time. I think this is more or less how you slice an apple, its still the same apple to begin with though.
It is more than just having more intermediate prices, the values at the bars that "align" with the higher timeframe are also different! That can be problem with indicators for which many people and EAs use the same threshold (e.g. RSI 30/70 levels). Your approximation could be slightly above or below the actual level and thus trigger too early or too late.
  • #46
  • Dec 7, 2021 3:25pm Dec 7, 2021 3:25pm
Quoting yoriz
{quote} It is more than just having more intermediate prices, the values at the bars that "align" with the higher timeframe are also different! That can be problem with indicators for which many people and EAs use the same threshold (e.g. RSI 30/70 levels). Your approximation could be slightly above or below the actual level and thus trigger too early or too late.
But if used live and manually traded it will give you values to trade during the same time table, just not the same closing values. When used in EAs it will mater, but you can use price over/under instead of closing over/under.

it all comes down to if it fits your trading style or not, will it make your decisions better or worse. There are so many more things to make a trade profitable than over/under a 30/70 value, but that is a complete different story.
  • #47
  • Edited 5:21pm Dec 7, 2021 4:27pm | Edited 5:21pm
Quoting yoriz
{quote} Yes, please do compare the values in both charts. Use the "Data Window" (Ctrl-D) tool and read out the values in both charts. You will see that the values might be similar, but not identical. The calculations are different, hence the output is different. {quote} In my understanding that is not how you use an MTF indicator. In the MTF indicator you specify the timeframe and the period (expressed in that other timeframe) that you want to show. If you use two different timeframes with the same period, then obviously you get different things....
@yoriz: " In my understanding that is not how you use an MTF indicator. In the MTF indicator you specify the timeframe and the period (expressed in that other timeframe) that you want to show. "

@yoriz -- that is correct. But that's not what the "MTF-believers" were saying. They think you can superimpose an M5 chart onto an M15 chart, or vice versa, and that MT4 will automagically do the algebra and rescaling behind the scenes so that everything comes out the way they want.



@yoriz: "Also, you are trying to display a lower timeframe (M5) onto a higher timeframe (M15). Usually you would want to go the other way.[/quote]"

@yoriz -- and where is it carved in stone that you can't overlay LTF onto HTF? The only reason most people don't is because MT4 makes it harder to do that (i.e. harder to code). I like trading M30, but I also overlay an M15 indicator because I like to make sure the M30 signal is still valid.

PS: As an aside -- others have determined that swings occur every 3-8 bars, on any time frame. So, if you are going to compare two time frames for confirmation then their ratio should be smaller than 8. Otherwise, you are comparing apples to oranges. Of course, HTF are often used for overall trend direction (from 30,000 feet) -- but that is different than signal confirmation.
  • #48
  • Dec 10, 2021 2:33am Dec 10, 2021 2:33am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @ryuryu -- son -- your cluelessness knows no bounds. Of course you can edit your post -- up to 24 hours after the initial save.
cluelessness knows no bound........
  • #49
  • Dec 10, 2021 7:48pm Dec 10, 2021 7:48pm
Quoting MyProfit
Hi Fellows, I am a little confused, about how to plot two or more stochastics with different periods in a timeframe that reflect the settings of higher timeframes?. I know that if the setting for a Ema on M5 is 14 and if I ad other Ema with 42 setting in the same Timeframe (M5), it will reflect the 15 Timeframe "value' or position..., My question is, same Timeframe (5 Min), with a Stoch setting of 14, to reflect the 15 Min Tf the Stoch period must be ??, To reflect the 1 Hour Tf on M5,the stoch period must be? Thanks

why do you want to do that?

if you want to know the Stochastics of the timeframe, simply switch to the chart timeframe and read the Data Window.

try this very old MTF Stochastics and see this this works the way you want.

Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 !#MTF Stochastic v2.0.mq4   6 KB | 571 downloads
Honesty is a very expensive gift. You wont find it in cheap people.WBuffett
  • #50
  • Dec 11, 2021 12:51am Dec 11, 2021 12:51am
Quoting MyProfit
And the right answer is ????
Don't use a Stochastic.
All you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be.
  • #51
  • Dec 12, 2021 1:04am Dec 12, 2021 1:04am
Another thing is surprising. Is it possible in sports that a football player does not understand how to play football after 10 years of playing? Is it possible in medicine that a doctor does not understand how to treat? Drivers may not know which pedals to press after 10 years of working in a taxi?

But look at trading. 99% of the respondents in this thread cannot add two plus two at all, and over the years of trading they have not found 5 minutes of time just to look at the formula by which the indicator works.

After all, trading is an amazing activity. People talk and talk nonsense, day after day, year after year.
And then we wonder why 99% lose money. Indeed, it is strange. It is strange that it is not 100%.
Observer effect
  • #52
  • Last Post: Dec 18, 2021 1:14pm Dec 18, 2021 1:14pm
Quoting ryuryu
Another thing is surprising. Is it possible in sports that a football player does not understand how to play football after 10 years of playing? Is it possible in medicine that a doctor does not understand how to treat? Drivers may not know which pedals to press after 10 years of working in a taxi? But look at trading. 99% of the respondents in this thread cannot add two plus two at all, and over the years of trading they have not found 5 minutes of time just to look at the formula by which the indicator works. After all, trading is an amazing activity....
tnx ryuryu

Quoting ryuryu
People talk and talk nonsense, day after day, year after year.
People love talking. When talking about trading feel serious businessman maybe Let people talk more here. My EAs love that

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