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Confused - Stochastic Question?

  • #1
  • First Post: Dec 2, 2021 11:34pm Dec 2, 2021 11:34pm
Hi Fellows, I am a little confused, about how to plot two or more stochastics with different periods in a timeframe that reflect the settings of higher timeframes?.
I know that if the setting for a Ema on M5 is 14 and if I ad other Ema with 42 setting in the same Timeframe (M5), it will reflect the 15 Timeframe "value' or position...,
My question is, same Timeframe (5 Min), with a Stoch setting of 14, to reflect the 15 Min Tf the Stoch period must be ??, To reflect the 1 Hour Tf on M5,the stoch period must be?
Thanks
"Great Men are not born great, They Grow Great."
  • #2
  • Dec 3, 2021 6:06am Dec 3, 2021 6:06am
Quoting MyProfit
Hi Fellows, I am a little confused, about how to plot two or more stochastics with different periods in a timeframe that reflect the settings of higher timeframes?. I know that if the setting for a Ema on M5 is 14 and if I ad other Ema with 42 setting in the same Timeframe (M5), it will reflect the 15 Timeframe "value' or position..., My question is, same Timeframe (5 Min), with a Stoch setting of 14, to reflect the 15 Min Tf the Stoch period must be ??, To reflect the 1 Hour Tf on M5,the stoch period must be? Thanks
15/5 = 3

If you setting on 5m is 14 then to get 15m it is 14*3=42
Observer effect
  • #3
  • Dec 3, 2021 10:16am Dec 3, 2021 10:16am
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} 15/5 = 3 If you setting on 5m is 14 then to get 15m it is 14*3=42
Holy shit, @ryuryu -- it's the other way around, you bozo. An M15 candle contains the ticks of 3 M5 candles -- so, M5 requires a period 3x as large as M15. A M5 period of 14 is roughly equal to an M15 period of 14/3 = 4.66. Since period has to be an integer then round to '5'.

@ryuryu -- another purveyor of FX misinformation. @ryuryu -- you just screwed poor @MyProfit and, yet, he gave your post a 'like'. This is the main reason traders fail. It's not misinformation propagated by brokers, it's the stupidity of guru wannabes. A very sad state of affairs...

@MyProfit -- for simple indicators like MovingAverage you can generally scale the period setting based on the ratio of the two TimeFrames. But Stochastics is more complicated and includes other settings -- so, the scaling may not work out so nicely for Stochastics.
  • #4
  • Dec 3, 2021 10:34am Dec 3, 2021 10:34am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} Holy shit, @ryuryu -- it's the other way around, you bozo. An M15 candle contains the ticks of 3 M5 candles -- so, M5 requires a period 3x as large as M15. A M5 period of 14 is roughly equal to an M15 period of 14/3 = 4.66. Since period has to be an integer then round to '5'. @ryuryu -- another purveyor of FX misinformation. @ryuryu -- you just screwed poor @MyProfit and, yet, he gave your post a 'like'. This is the main reason traders fail. It's not misinformation propagated by brokers, it's the stupidity of guru wannabes. A very sad state...
Quote
@MyProfit -- for simple indicators like MovingAverage you can generally scale the period setting based on the ratio of the two TimeFrames. But Stochastics is more complicated and includes other settings -- so, the scaling may not work out so nicely for Stochastics.

I supposed that, that's why I asked, Thanks
"Great Men are not born great, They Grow Great."
  • #5
  • Dec 3, 2021 11:05am Dec 3, 2021 11:05am
Didn't get what Robots is talking about.

If you want draw "15m TF stoch 14" on 5m tf you have to multiply 14 on 3.
If you want to draw "5m TF stoch 14" on 15m tf you have to divide 14 on 3.

No one is using it the first way because it make no sense. So the common task is "how to draw 100 EMA from 1H tf on 1m TF". It is 100 * 60. That's why my answer is correct.

Quoting MyProfit
To reflect the 1 Hour Tf on M5,the stoch period must be? Thanks
The answer is: 14 * 12 = 168 (where 14 is stoch and 12 is difference between 60 min and 5 min)
Observer effect
  • #6
  • Dec 3, 2021 11:16am Dec 3, 2021 11:16am
Quoting ryuryu
Didn't get what Robots is talking about. If you want draw "15m TF stoch 14" on 5m tf you have to multiply 14 on 3. If you want to draw "5m TF stoch 14" on 15m tf you have to divide 14 on 3. No one is using it the first way because it make no sense. So the common task is "how to draw 100 EMA on 1m TF". It is 100 * 60. That's why my answer is correct.
@ryuryu -- this is your original quote:
"If you setting on 5m is 14 then to get 15m it is 14*3=42"

@ryuryu -- that is wrong. You got it backwards.

=====================================

And you did it again -- @MyProfit asked how to scale H1 period of 14 onto M5 and you answered:
"the answer is: 14 * 20 = 280"

But M5 goes into H1 12x, and NOT 20x!!!

@ryuryu -- please stop trying to "help" people -- you really aren't the one who should be doing that. You are making things worse. You should be the one asking questions instead...
  • #7
  • Dec 3, 2021 11:16am Dec 3, 2021 11:16am
Quoting MyProfit
Hi Fellows, I am a little confused, about how to plot two or more stochastics with different periods in a timeframe that reflect the settings of higher timeframes?
Hi, I think this little excel tool willl help you. Not long ago wrote to myself to ease my life a little bit when surfing through different timeframes - all I need after that is copy paste the CSV line to my indis

What you need to do is to select timeframe and then write the desired period and excel will calculate for you everything. But also have in mind that if higher timeframes are showing 1 or 0 then they migh not be shown in those higher timeframes.
Attached File(s)
File Type: xlsx Periods MTF.xlsx   12 KB | 294 downloads
Soli Deo honor et gloria... - 1 ad Timotheum 1:17
  • #8
  • Dec 3, 2021 11:17am Dec 3, 2021 11:17am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @ryuryu -- that is wrong. You got it backwards.
Yeah, R4M is right that you're wrong!
Soli Deo honor et gloria... - 1 ad Timotheum 1:17
  • #9
  • Dec 3, 2021 11:24am Dec 3, 2021 11:24am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @ryuryu -- this is your original quote: "If you setting on 5m is 14 then to get 15m it is 14*3=42" @ryuryu -- that is wrong. You got it backwards. ===================================== And you did it again -- @MyProfit asked how to scale H1 period of 14 onto M5 and you answered: "the answer is: 14 * 20 = 280" But M5 goes into H1 12x, and NOT 20x!!! @ryuryu -- please stop trying to "help" people -- you really aren't the one who should be doing that. You are making things worse. You should be the one asking questions instead...
Your answer was 4.66 and you was dividing:
Attached Image

My answer was 42 to draw 14 from 15m on 5m
Attached Image


And 168 to draw 1h on 5m:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: screenshot.png Size: 7 KB


I'm terribly sorry, but you are wrong. Your answer totally wrong. My answers are correct.
Observer effect
  • #10
  • Dec 3, 2021 11:48am Dec 3, 2021 11:48am
Why are we not just specifying the timeframe in the call to Stoc?
Inserted Code
val = iStochastic(NULL,Timeframe, bla,bla,bla)
  • #11
  • Dec 3, 2021 11:55am Dec 3, 2021 11:55am
Quoting MyProfit
To reflect the 1 Hour Tf on M5,the stoch period must be?
Stoch period must be multiplied by 12 (because 60/5=12)
Soli Deo honor et gloria... - 1 ad Timotheum 1:17
  • #12
  • Dec 5, 2021 11:28am Dec 5, 2021 11:28am
And the right answer is ????
"Great Men are not born great, They Grow Great."
  • #13
  • Dec 6, 2021 4:28am Dec 6, 2021 4:28am
Quoting MyProfit
And the right answer is ????
@MyProfit -- even though @ryuryu keeps changing his answer, you have enough information to figure this out on your own. If you can't figure out something this simple, then you shouldn't be using indicators.

All there is is tick data -- a stream of price numbers from your broker. For a particular symbol, all time frames get ***EXACTLY*** the same tick data. There is no such thing as M5 tick data or H1 tick data -- there is only one stream of ticks for each symbol. Ticks arrive whenever the price changes -- i.e. they do not arrive at pre-specified intervals. Take a look at your Market Watch -- when the Bid or Ask flickers then a new tick has arrived for that symbol.

H1 is bigger than M5, right? In fact, it is 12x bigger, right? Which do you think has accumulated more ticks -- H1 or M5? H1, of course. So, if you want to scale the period setting for different time frames then figure out the scaling factor to achieve similar number of ticks. For a moving average to behave similarly on M5 as on H1 then the two time frames need to work with the same number of ticks. Since M5 is 12x shorter than H1 then you need to use a period setting that is 12x larger. Capeche???

This isn't even algebra -- it's baby arithmetic...
  • #14
  • Dec 6, 2021 5:20am Dec 6, 2021 5:20am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @MyProfit -- even though @ryuryu keeps changing his answer
You are talking nonsense. There is no way to change the post when next one was posted after. So I can't "keep changing" my answer. And my first answer was that first you have to figure out the difference between TF you are using, next multiply on that.

So after 20 posts you just repeat what I wrote, meanwhile your first answer was incorrect.

Regarding to "ticks" and timeframes. You are wrong too. Because Stochastic don't use ticks for calculations. It use CLOSE value (or open, or high, or low) of each candle. So it don't care how many ticks was in your daily candle. It will use its close value. That's why lower TF data will be much more accurate and smoother than higher TFs one.
Observer effect
  • #15
  • Dec 6, 2021 5:57am Dec 6, 2021 5:57am
Just use a MTF stochastic, many versions on Factory.
When all conditions are met - Enter trade - sit back and FRET !!!
  • #16
  • Dec 6, 2021 7:21am Dec 6, 2021 7:21am
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} You are talking nonsense. There is no way to change the post when next one was posted after. So I can't "keep changing" my answer. And my first answer was that first you have to figure out the difference between TF you are using, next multiply on that. So after 20 posts you just repeat what I wrote, meanwhile your first answer was incorrect. Regarding to "ticks" and timeframes. You are wrong too. Because Stochastic don't use ticks for calculations. It use CLOSE value (or open, or high, or low) of each candle. So it don't care how many ticks...
Dude -- stop with the damage control...

From @ryuryu: "Stochastic don't use ticks for calculations"
Really? Really? What does it use? Bars? Candles? Lines? What do you think MT4 uses to compose Bars, Candles, Lines. The OHLC representation of ticks are abstract constructions to make it easier for human eyes to view a price chart. Can you imagine trading a chart of ticks? Indicators use the OHLC constructs of ticks, but behind the scenes there is only ticks.
  • #17
  • Edited 7:38am Dec 6, 2021 7:28am | Edited 7:38am
Quoting jsf
Just use a MTF stochastic, many versions on Factory.
@jsf -- you are even more confused than @MyProfit. This has nothing to do with MTF. MTF means you can represent the markings of one time frame on a chart that is a different time frame. The original question concerned how to RESCALE an M5 MovingAverage onto an H1 chart such that the markings of the two would align -- i.e. trade the same.

If you were to keep the settings the same and simply use MTF then the two charts would NOT trade the same. This is so freak'in basic I can't believe I'm actually typing this. And @jsf -- you've been trading from at least 2012?

PS: @MyProfit, @jsf -- this is not personal. I understand that > 95% of FF members have no clue what ticks are and misunderstand the use of MTF. I'm simply taking the opportunity to gently insult in the hope that a few get off their lazy and timid asses and make their brain sweat a bit. I truly want retail traders to succeed, but they should be willing to try -- at least a little bit.

As for @ryuryu -- it is personal. This person is poison to FF...
  • #18
  • Dec 6, 2021 7:36am Dec 6, 2021 7:36am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} Dude -- stop with the damage control... From @ryuryu: "Stochastic don't use ticks for calculations" Really? Really? What does it use? Bars? Candles? Lines? What do you think MT4 uses to compose Bars, Candles, Lines. The OHLC representation of ticks are abstract constructions to make it easier for human eyes to view a price chart. Can you imagine trading a chart of ticks? Indicators use the OHLC constructs of ticks, but behind the scenes there is only ticks.

It use Close, Low and High. It don't use ticks.

Attached Image

Where
L = lowest price of previous candle
H = highest price
C = close price
x = number of previous candles

Don't know where you found ticks here. But why I'm surprised? A lot of people think that stoch can show oversold and overbought areas... so why not.
Observer effect
  • #19
  • Edited 7:51am Dec 6, 2021 7:41am | Edited 7:51am
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} It use Close, Low and High. It don't use ticks. {image} Where L = lowest price of previous candle H = highest price C = close price x = number of previous candles Don't know where you found ticks here. But why I'm surprised? A lot of people think that stoch can show oversold and overbought areas... so why not.
Dude -- what do you think 'Close' is? It is a bar's last tick.


'Open' is a bar's first tick.
'High' is the highest tick within a bar.
'Low' is the lowest tick within a bar.

Again -- all there is are ticks. Your broker does not send bar data to your MT4 session, they send tick data. The MT4 software then combines the tick data to form bars or candles. For example, in the case of an H1 candle, then MT4 accumulates ticks for 1 hour and uses them to construct an H1 bar.

For the current bar (i.e. Bar[0]) that is still open, the Open price is carved in stone and is the first tick of the time frame. The High and Low will continue to move up or down while the bar is still alive. The Close is the most recent tick value.
  • #20
  • Dec 6, 2021 8:06am Dec 6, 2021 8:06am
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} You are talking nonsense. There is no way to change the post when next one was posted after. So I can't "keep changing" my answer. And my first answer was that first you have to figure out the difference between TF you are using, next multiply on that. So after 20 posts you just repeat what I wrote, meanwhile your first answer was incorrect. Regarding to "ticks" and timeframes. You are wrong too. Because Stochastic don't use ticks for calculations. It use CLOSE value (or open, or high, or low) of each candle. So it don't care how...
@ryuryu -- son -- your cluelessness knows no bounds. Of course you can edit your post -- up to 24 hours after the initial save.
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