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  • #5,521
  • Nov 16, 2021 3:41am Nov 16, 2021 3:41am
Quoting Koop
{quote} Ooof. That did not take long. {image}
I'm very tempted to take JotaP off the ignore list for that post.

That's by far the best post of his/hers for like ... ever.

Masterrmind .........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #5,522
  • Edited 4:46am Nov 16, 2021 4:29am | Edited 4:46am
Instant Funding guys, look what i found.


Site - Instant Funding Program | Funded Account | Forex Traders UK

Reviews - Forex Traders UK Reviews | Read Customer Service Reviews of www.forextradersuk.com (trustpilot.com)
  • #5,523
  • Edited 5:58am Nov 16, 2021 5:44am | Edited 5:58am
Quoting Koop
Instant Funding guys, look what i found. Site - Instant Funding Program | Funded Account | Forex Traders UK Reviews - Forex Traders UK Reviews | Read Customer Service Reviews of www.forextradersuk.com (trustpilot.com)
Just another copy and paste bucket shop white label?

From their broker site... sorry not broker (solution provider)

"itexsys offer an efficient and effective MetaTrader White Label service"

No Companies House Limited Company details or director details either which is a red flag for me...
  • #5,524
  • Nov 16, 2021 6:20am Nov 16, 2021 6:20am
Quoting Fagin
{quote} Just another copy and paste bucket shop white label? From their broker site... sorry not broker (solution provider) "itexsys offer an efficient and effective MetaTrader White Label service" No Companies House Limited Company details or director details either which is a red flag for me...
Can't remember exactly where else i've seen that Itexsys shit... I think it's The 5ers..

They do have pretty good reviews though... i also "like" the kind of few bad reviews i see on trust pilot, not the worrying type.

But yes, it does seem like copy and paste... conditions remind me very much of Buoytrade and DT4x.
  • #5,525
  • Nov 16, 2021 7:38am Nov 16, 2021 7:38am
Looks like the reviews are from referrals from an educator guru site. Shill em once with "training", shill em again with an affiliate referral and finally shaft them with an A book dream and B Book bullshit reality.

Kerrrchinnng.... Back onto Utube rinse and repeat..
  • #5,526
  • Nov 16, 2021 9:28am Nov 16, 2021 9:28am
Quoting Koop
Instant Funding guys, look what i found. Site - Instant Funding Program | Funded Account | Forex Traders UK
-Not sure if I am understanding this correctly. For example, for the 70K aggressive, you get 17.5K instant funding. So, is it a 70K account, or a 17.5K account?

If we assume that it is a 70K account, then you would get 3.5K draw-down allowance for 950 fee. Since this is instant funding with no evaluation, then this is highly unlikely.

So, let's assume that it is a 17.5K account for 950 fee. You get 875 draw-down allowance for that (not good). You need to hit profit target of 4,375 to scale up, which means that you need to essentially flip your money 3 times in order to scale up (really not good).

It seems that these programs are designed for suckers. Unless I am missing something...
  • #5,527
  • Nov 16, 2021 9:48am Nov 16, 2021 9:48am
Another one, shared on FB:

https://www.blueguardiancapital.com/
  • #5,528
  • Nov 16, 2021 9:53am Nov 16, 2021 9:53am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Not sure if I am understanding this correctly. For example, for the 70K aggressive, you get 17.5K instant funding. So, is it a 70K account, or a 17.5K account? If we assume that it is a 70K account, then you would get 3.5K draw-down allowance for 950 fee. Since this is instant funding with no evaluation, then this is highly unlikely. So, let's assume that it is a 17.5K account for 950 fee. You get 875 draw-down allowance for that (not good). You need to hit profit target of 4,375 to scale up, which means that you need to essentially flip...
it's the 5%ers just worded differently....instead of we 4x your account once you hit the milestone, this one presents it as you have access to 25% of the funds and the other 75% upon completion. Pulling the wool over our eyes..... they really think we are idiots.
  • #5,529
  • Nov 16, 2021 9:56am Nov 16, 2021 9:56am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Not sure if I am understanding this correctly. For example, for the 70K aggressive, you get 17.5K instant funding. So, is it a 70K account, or a 17.5K account? If we assume that it is a 70K account, then you would get 3.5K draw-down allowance for 950 fee. Since this is instant funding with no evaluation, then this is highly unlikely. So, let's assume that it is a 17.5K account for 950 fee. You get 875 draw-down allowance for that (not good). You need to hit profit target of 4,375 to scale up, which means that you need to essentially flip...
You're not missing anything, it is exactly as you have described.
  • #5,530
  • Nov 16, 2021 10:01am Nov 16, 2021 10:01am
Instant funding with no evaluation means you'll be funding the account yourself. And for the privilege of doing so you'll be splitting your profits to the tune of 50% or thereabouts.
  • #5,531
  • Nov 16, 2021 10:04am Nov 16, 2021 10:04am
Quoting EnoFX
Instant funding with no evaluation means you'll be funding the account yourself. And for the privilege of doing so you'll be splitting your profits to the tune of 50% or thereabouts.
Exactly, just like the 5%ers, LUX, CTI and the like
  • #5,532
  • Nov 16, 2021 10:52am Nov 16, 2021 10:52am

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Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #5,533
  • Nov 16, 2021 6:08pm Nov 16, 2021 6:08pm
Hello,
are there Germans here who know about the current situation of prop trading on side of Bafin?
My second question: Is there a case of so-called "Scheinselbständigkeit" in prop trading?
  • #5,534
  • Nov 16, 2021 7:40pm Nov 16, 2021 7:40pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Not sure if I am understanding this correctly. For example, for the 70K aggressive, you get 17.5K instant funding. So, is it a 70K account, or a 17.5K account? If we assume that it is a 70K account, then you would get 3.5K draw-down allowance for 950 fee. Since this is instant funding with no evaluation, then this is highly unlikely. So, let's assume that it is a 17.5K account for 950 fee. You get 875 draw-down allowance for that (not good). You need to hit profit target of 4,375 to scale up, which means that you need to essentially flip...
Lmao Yet some people still find such offers attractive. I can't understand it, but i shall provide them that which they seek.
  • #5,535
  • Nov 17, 2021 8:04am Nov 17, 2021 8:04am
Yeah. I suppose that most are attracted to the no-challenge, instant funding aspect of it all. And although there are some benefits to it, you just never know if you are trading a large account or not, and the fact remains that you could benefit more by trading your own account, by just doubling the account balance that you initially wanted to start with.
  • #5,536
  • Nov 17, 2021 9:05am Nov 17, 2021 9:05am
I don't really understand this whole anti-instant-funding thing. Compared to these "challenges" it's like 20 times easier to reach targets. If anything, the challenges are built to fail, and the instant funding is built for success. I've done the math. With compounding one's own account without going risk crazy, the growth rate is severely small compared to hitting targets on instant funding. Not all of us are middle class or higher. We don't have many thousands to play with. To me a relatively quick pathway to 1.28 million, even if it's only a 50% split with either 6 or 30 leverage, is a hell of a lot quicker than growing say $500 to $1500 through pure compounding. I'd rather wait until I build up much more capital through an instant funding regime with shitty splits/leverage to do my own compounding, than try to just compound a tiny amount of money from the very beginning. But, I'm not gonna lie. I can totally see myself getting pissed off with these companies for whatever reason and end up trading my own money anyway, but it ain't my first choice when the time comes to pump!
  • #5,537
  • Nov 17, 2021 9:22am Nov 17, 2021 9:22am
Quoting Max0r
I don't really understand this whole anti-instant-funding thing. Compared to these "challenges" it's like 20 times easier to reach targets. If anything, the challenges are built to fail, and the instant funding is built for success. I've done the math. With compounding one's own account without going risk crazy, the growth rate is severely small compared to hitting targets on instant funding. Not all of us are middle class or higher. We don't have many thousands to play with. To me a relatively quick pathway to 1.28 million, even if it's only a...
The problem is you need to use the allowable DD when factoring your risk per trade. If the allowable DD these companies offer is less than the fee you are paying....well, as you said, do the math. You will have at least 6x more in your personal account than their allowable DD when reaching 1.28 mil. In addition, you are not giving up 50%. I agree the challenge model isn't for everyone, but if you are going the instant funding route where DD is less than the fee you pay.....you don't need a prop firm. If you search the thread, there are actually spreadsheets to demonstrate the math.
  • #5,538
  • Nov 17, 2021 10:24am Nov 17, 2021 10:24am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} The problem is you need to use the allowable DD when factoring your risk per trade. If the allowable DD these companies offer is less than the fee you are paying....well, as you said, do the math. You will have at least 6x more in your personal account than their allowable DD when reaching 1.28 mil. In addition, you are not giving up 50%. I agree the challenge model isn't for everyone, but if you are going the instant funding route where DD is less than the fee you pay.....you don't need a prop firm. If you search the thread, there are actually...
there is a few things some may also need to factor: circumstances.
for example, i see 'MaxOr' from the USA....50:1 leverage, no hedge....less then impressive trading costs at Oanda or Forex.com...
coupled potentially with the issue to scale to equity the trades ( if you have a small acct of 500$, adjusting lot size doesn't carry anything comparable to the precision to adjust lot size on 50k)...
and perhaps the chance to see the bigger picture clearer, ie gamble more responsible vs on a small to tiny personal acct.

not to mention, if in the end it is really an actual 'live' acct, it may open up over time other some other possibilities.

so, it isn't necessarily a bad thing, the instant funding.
where things the moment lag, is that profit split.
50-50 isn't that appealing,
but
there is always some hope,
as these firms hit competition they raised the profit split on the challenge models continuously,
thus it may some point start to happen some on the instant funding options too.
60-40 for the trader would start to look a lot more appealing,
70-30...well, in my opinion that is the fair amount if the dd is covered by the trader.

there, prop firm reps, a task for you to work on!
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #5,539
  • Edited 10:48am Nov 17, 2021 10:30am | Edited 10:48am
Quoting Max0r
I don't really understand this whole anti-instant-funding thing. Compared to these "challenges" it's like 20 times easier to reach targets. If anything, the challenges are built to fail, and the instant funding is built for success.
-Copied from my previous post:

The problem with those direct funding, accelerated type programs where the buy-in fee matches the draw-down, is that you never really know if you are being given a large account to trade with.

They could secretly match your buy-in fee with the same amount of funds, and put the combined funds into an account that has a lot more leverage (notice how the leverage on such accounts is always smaller?). Matching your buy-in creates a buffer so that your funds are fully exposed in case of margin call/close, but also fully protects their funds from exposure, creating the illusion of a larger account balance.

So, zero risk to them, yet you are giving them half of your profits while not actually benefiting much more than you would if you were trading your own, personal account.

Quoting Max0r
With compounding one's own account without going risk crazy, the growth rate is severely small compared to hitting targets on instant funding. Not all of us are middle class or higher. We don't have many thousands to play with. To me a relatively quick pathway to 1.28 million, even if it's only a 50% split with either 6 or 30 leverage, is a hell of a lot quicker than growing say $500 to $1500 through pure compounding.
-If the above is true, and prop firms are simply matching your buy-in fee and throwing the funds into a high-leverage account, then you are still flipping/compounding your account in order to scale up with these accelerated-type programs. It's the same thing, except you are forfeiting half of your profits to them.

If someone asked you if you would rather risk $100 of your own money, in order to make 50% of your profits, or, take $200 of your own money, in order to make 100% of your profits, which would you choose? Because that is basically what this boils down to since you never really know what is happening behind the scenes. They could be giving you 90% profit split, and they would still be laughing all the way to the bank, because they are literally risking nothing in order to profit from your gains.

If someone gave you a $2 million account to trade with, and told you that your draw-down allowance was 2K, is it really a $2 million account? And if you paid 2K non-refundable for that account, then guess what...you're trading your own money. They generously provide you enough padding on the account so that your funds are fully-exposed in lieu of getting margin stopped at 50% or whatever, all for the low price of 50% of your profits.
  • #5,540
  • Nov 17, 2021 10:43am Nov 17, 2021 10:43am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} The problem is you need to use the allowable DD when factoring your risk per trade. If the allowable DD these companies offer is less than the fee you are paying....well, as you said, do the math. You will have at least 6x more in your personal account than their allowable DD when reaching 1.28 mil. In addition, you are not giving up 50%. I agree the challenge model isn't for everyone, but if you are going the instant funding route where DD is less than the fee you pay.....you don't need a prop firm. If you search the thread, there are actually...
Now that I re-examine the issue, I did notice that I made a big mistake in that the expectancy per trade when looking at using my own money was lower, risking less actual $ per trade. So this throws the numbers into question. I'm considering different scenarios and if my brain doesn't explode I will get back to you >_<
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