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It's Unreliable

  • #61
  • Nov 14, 2021 4:52am Nov 14, 2021 4:52am
Quoting DonPato
{quote} I'm afraid this has bogged down into an issue that few understand...one of metrics. This is NOT the question the originator of this thread was asking. I produced some metrics only to verify the voracity of my stance that math is NOT a useful tool for finding a winning methodology. I still believe and state categorically that trading based on the market structure of Time, Order flow, Volume, and Price is the basis of the methodology that is successful. Metrics are just that...they measure your results. They are NOT the basis for a methodology...
Can you make one trade in real time? ... we can see right from the opening? You don't have to reveal the strategy, just show at least one trade.
  • #62
  • Edited 6:57am Nov 14, 2021 6:22am | Edited 6:57am
Quoting HRTrading
Thread starter is just mad because he can't trade profitably, now he is asking others to prove they do so he can try use their system lol. "I need to see your strategy in action" okay mate, what are you really doing on a forum asking to see peoples trading styles in action? To see if it is money management that makes them money? Well it seems you already have this bias so, what is it you really want from this thread then?
It's more of a vent. But not just a vent. There is a point to it. And you have apparently missed the point!

Keep making assumptions about me and my intentions and you will lose your privilege to comment in this thread!

And by the way, I can trade profitably.
Learn from your mistakes and march on.
  • #63
  • Nov 14, 2021 9:59am Nov 14, 2021 9:59am
Quoting Lest
Can you make one trade in real time? ... we can see right from the opening? You don't have to reveal the strategy, just show at least one trade.
I have already answered this question in a previous post on this thread. Just look up any of my threads on this forum and you will find I post trades, live, on the right hand edge to illustrate the points I bring out in my disdcussions.

However, THIS thread is not mine. (I didn't start it) and I think it very disrespectful to hijack someone else's thread and redirect them to mine. So if you truly want to see some of my FX and Futures trades, then just go through my threads...better yet sit down and actually read them...you might get something out of it.
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  • #64
  • Nov 14, 2021 10:08am Nov 14, 2021 10:08am
Quoting here2there
It's more of a vent. But not just a vent. There is a point to it. And you have apparently missed the point! Keep making assumptions about me and my intentions and you will lose your privilege to comment in this thread! And by the way, I can trade profitably.
I have to agree with this sentiment. Here2There is just letting us know his experience and asking the audience at large to show him something using the methods that he mentioned, that actually works in real time...long term. So far I have not seen that. I must admit that I also misunderstood his intention but now it seems clear. I whole heartedly agree with Here2There's assertions and will add my challange for anyone to provide some evidence based claim to show that (what I refer to as Math trading) actually works long term.

I say if you are using these methods, you are either new, or have an intrinic instict for trading that goes beyond the math.
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  • #65
  • Nov 14, 2021 10:54am Nov 14, 2021 10:54am
Quoting here2there
{quote}I would like to see your strategy in real time.
I've done this several times on FF. It is an enormous pain in the ass, but I think it proved the point you are looking for. I have a journal here on FF where I showed a nearly real time trading day. Look at posts 812-831. There was a time blip in the middle of this run due to previous obligations, but it was as contemporaneous as I can make it. Post your comments there, not here. Best wishes and good luck.
  • #66
  • Nov 14, 2021 11:10am Nov 14, 2021 11:10am
Quoting DonPato
{quote} I have already answered this question in a previous post on this thread. Just look up any of my threads on this forum and you will find I post trades, live, on the right hand edge to illustrate the points I bring out in my disdcussions. However, THIS thread is not mine. (I didn't start it) and I think it very disrespectful to hijack someone else's thread and redirect them to mine. So if you truly want to see some of my FX and Futures trades, then just go through my threads...better yet sit down and actually read them...you might get something...
I was looking at your threads. I only found trades published after they were in profit. You can link to the published trade in real time?
  • #67
  • Edited 12:18pm Nov 14, 2021 12:07pm | Edited 12:18pm
Quoting Lest
{quote} I was looking at your threads. I only found trades published after they were in profit. You can link to the published trade in real time?
Do you want to actually learn HOW trade? Or just whine and let everyone else do your searcing for you? The point of these threads is to have a discussion and commentary on what works and what doesn't work for each of us. Not for me to "prove" to you whether or not I know what I'm talking about. That's for YOU to decide and then move one or not. Again, I think it extremely rude to come onto someone else's thread and start posting links to MY threads in an attempt to satisfy someone else's simple laziness and not wanting to read and search out for himself.

Pretty much every trade I post is always done on the right hand edge, if you actually take time to read the thread through from beginning to end. And again I repeat it is rude to ask me to post links to someone else's thread just so I can "justify" my claims.

All this being said, you can find one of these trades here: https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...7#post12685117 This is the start of a trade that went on for several weeks, with updates posted IN THE THREAD, and concludes here: https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...8#post12734878 Please don't start asking me again to do live trades for your learning experience...If you want to establish a teacher/student relationship, then contact me via PM, and please stop being rude to Here2There.
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  • #68
  • Nov 14, 2021 1:18pm Nov 14, 2021 1:18pm
Quoting DonPato
{quote} Do you want to actually learn HOW trade? Or just whine and let everyone else do your searcing for you? The point of these threads is to have a discussion and commentary on what works and what doesn't work for each of us. Not for me to "prove" to you whether or not I know what I'm talking about. That's for YOU to decide and then move one or not. Again, I think it extremely rude to come onto someone else's thread and start posting links to MY threads in an attempt to satisfy someone else's simple laziness and not wanting to read and search...
In 2020, I see two trades. How did you close this trade? https://www.forexfactory.com/attachm...5&d=1581518243
  • #69
  • Nov 14, 2021 1:36pm Nov 14, 2021 1:36pm
Quoting Lest
{quote} In 2020, I see two trades. How did you close this trade? https://www.forexfactory.com/attachm...5&d=1581518243
I've tried to be polite... I've tried stating directly the disrespectfulness of these inquiries on this thread. I've given what you asked for and you continue to ask ME to explain my trading on someone else's thread...is it me or am I not communicating effectively.

Let me put this as bluntly as possible...ASK ME YOUR QUESTIONS ON MY THREAD OR VIA PM!! STOP HIJACKING THIS THREAD WHICH IS FOR A DIFFERENT PURPOSE.

Can I state it any more clearly?
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  • #70
  • Nov 14, 2021 1:44pm Nov 14, 2021 1:44pm
Intentions, habits, direction: this is all about forex.
Everything is unreliable without intention.
Can volume give the 300-500 pips direction if they are trying to hide their intention by chopping the big volume into small?
That's the edge of mountain. That's all. All other things are second plan: Volume, Orderflow, Footprint or any other fancy words
  • #71
  • Nov 14, 2021 1:49pm Nov 14, 2021 1:49pm
Quoting DonPato
{quote} I've tried to be polite... I've tried stating directly the disrespectfulness of these inquiries on this thread. I've given what you asked for and you continue to ask ME to explain my trading on someone else's thread...is it me or am I not communicating effectively. Let me put this as bluntly as possible...ASK ME YOUR QUESTIONS ON MY THREAD OR VIA PM!! STOP HIJACKING THIS THREAD WHICH IS FOR A DIFFERENT PURPOSE. Can I state it any more clearly?
This thread is about this: ... "The people marketing this stuff are likely making more money from selling their products than they are actually gaining from trading." Will you make one profitable trade in two years and want to talk to us about a successful strategy?
  • #72
  • Nov 14, 2021 2:04pm Nov 14, 2021 2:04pm
Quoting Lest
{quote} This thread is about this: ... "The people marketing this stuff are likely making more money from selling their products than they are actually gaining from trading." Will you make one profitable trade in two years and want to talk to us about a successful strategy?
I showed you my stats...I clearly make more than a single successful trade. I am not marketing anything...I am just a guy who knows how to use the "truth" of the market to make a living. I couldn't care less if you believe me or not. I'm not here to reassure you or convince you I am a "good, or bad" trader. I've simply asked that you respect the originator of this thread and direct your inquiries and comments to HIM...not ME. If you have a comment or inquiry for me there are plenty of other avenues to do this without being disrespectful. I will not answer questions here about my methodology, simply tell you it works and show you the most recent (almost a years worth) data on just HOW well it does.

The point being that I agree with Here2There...using indicators, moving averages, oscillators, pretty lines...or whatever other magical formula you wish to use....will NOT work long term...That's it...I agree with Here2There...and I have the stats to back it up. I haven't seen YOUR stats, or "live" trades, or anything to show you have something better, or that you have any high ground to criticize my trading simply because you are too lazy to read it for yourself.

I'm done here...I apologize to Here2There for furthering this ridiculous commentary and will now just leave.
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  • #73
  • Nov 14, 2021 2:15pm Nov 14, 2021 2:15pm
Quoting DonPato
{quote} I showed you my stats...I clearly make more than a single successful trade. I am not marketing anything...I am just a guy who knows how to use the "truth" of the market to make a living. I couldn't care less if you believe me or not. I'm not here to reassure you or convince you I am a "good, or bad" trader. I've simply asked that you respect the originator of this thread and direct your inquiries and comments to HIM...not ME. If you have a comment or inquiry for me there are plenty of other avenues to do this without being disrespectful....
There are magic lines in your chart. If I see one trade in real time, I'll start thinking about them.
  • #74
  • Nov 14, 2021 2:37pm Nov 14, 2021 2:37pm
Quoting Ihlas
Intentions, habits, direction: this is all about forex. Everything is unreliable without intention. Can volume give the 300-500 pips direction if they are trying to hide their intention by chopping the big volume into small? That's the edge of mountain. That's all. All other things are second plan: Volume, Orderflow, Footprint or any other fancy words
Why do you even need to profit from 300 pip winning positions when it’s not needed to achieve your profit targets. I use volume as signals to enter into trades that last no longer than 2 to 30 seconds. I prefer to out of the market with profit as quick as possible before they even know I entered.

The purpose of studying volume is to enter into positions when a imbalance of the order book has occurred. The choice we have is either to enter when the order book is barren of asks or bids or enter after the order book flips.

Volume is just a ledger of executed aggressive market orders, but it does allow us to see real time big player intentions.

A real trading edge if you are prepared to pay for real time order data.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #75
  • Nov 14, 2021 2:40pm Nov 14, 2021 2:40pm
Quoting DonPato
using indicators, moving averages, oscillators, pretty lines...or whatever other magical formula you wish to use....will NOT work long term...
How can moving average stop working? It is average price for selected period. How can RSI stop working? It has very clear formula. No magic here. But your lovely manually drawn support and resistance lines and rectangles/fibos - yes. That is magic bullshit. Because there are no math inside but just magic and feelings whichvis good only for instagram/youtube mentors.
Observer effect
  • #76
  • Nov 14, 2021 3:22pm Nov 14, 2021 3:22pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} Why do you even need to profit from 300 pip winning positions when it’s not needed to achieve your profit targets. I use volume as signals to enter into trades that last no longer than 2 to 30 seconds. I prefer to out of the market with profit as quick as possible before they even know I entered. The purpose of studying volume is to enter into positions when a imbalance of the order book has occurred. The choice we have is either to enter when the order book is barren of asks or bids or enter after the order book flips. Volume is just a...
I'm also saying about real time big player intentions (while planning for bigger targets) that is 300-500 sometimes even 1000 pips. They can go up on Monday with volume, but they will go down on Tuesday and Wednesday if the true intention is down target. Volume can be good accessory, but not so necessary if the longer term intention is identified.

Quoting ryuryu
{quote} How can moving average stop working? It is average price for selected period. How can RSI stop working? It has very clear formula. No magic here. But your lovely manually drawn support and resistance lines and rectangles/fibos - yes. That is magic bullshit. Because there are no math inside but just magic and feelings whichvis good only for instagram/youtube mentors.
If your PC freezes, moving average will stop working
  • #77
  • Nov 14, 2021 3:51pm Nov 14, 2021 3:51pm
I want to comment about the discussion I am seeing taking place in here between certain members. I don't mind debate. I encourage it. But please keep it civil. If a person doesn't desire to go into details about his or her strategy, then respect that.
Learn from your mistakes and march on.
  • #78
  • Edited 5:56pm Nov 14, 2021 5:38pm | Edited 5:56pm
Quoting Ihlas
{quote} I'm also saying about real time big player intentions (while planning for bigger targets) that is 300-500 sometimes even 1000 pips. They can go up on Monday with volume, but they will go down on Tuesday and Wednesday if the true intention is down target. Volume can be good accessory, but not so necessary if the longer term intention is identified. {quote} If your PC freezes, moving average will stop working
We don’t need to care about long term intentions, what’s the point when you can make good profits every day and sleep while out of the market.
It’s the best way to secure a wage if you need one.

By the way, volume often does show us clear bottoms and tops, I can show you some if you like.

Cheers
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #79
  • Nov 14, 2021 6:28pm Nov 14, 2021 6:28pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} We don’t need to care about long term intentions, what’s the point when you can make good profits every day and sleep while out of the market. It’s the best way to secure a wage if you need one. By the way, volume often does show us clear bottoms and tops, I can show you some if you like. Cheers
Yes please
  • #80
  • Nov 15, 2021 3:48am Nov 15, 2021 3:48am
most of the system today based on something uncertainly ,so that's no way you could get out of this vicious loop.

i got the answer you looking for ,with that "certainty issue",you can make your trade 100% unbeatable,thus reaching 100% win rate.its okay you think im a scam ,but i just wanna let you know : something like that do exist.
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