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Anyone trading with a Prop firm 33 replies

So I accepted a Prop Trading job in South Beach Miami 44 replies

prop firm new model - my trading journey 871 replies

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  • #5,141
  • Nov 5, 2021 12:18am Nov 5, 2021 12:18am
Quoting Expo33
Unless I'm missing something.
-Yeah, I think you forgot to convert the draw-down.
  • #5,142
  • Nov 5, 2021 12:22am Nov 5, 2021 12:22am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Yeah, I think you forgot to convert the draw-down.
No, I forgot to convert the 30K into $1969US. Silly me.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #5,143
  • Nov 5, 2021 12:26am Nov 5, 2021 12:26am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} The prices are the lowest in the industry for the no evaluation funded account. For the 30K account, you pay only $98 for $5400 of drawdown! And then pay $49 a month for the subscription fee. Assume you conservatively make 5% the first month. You'd get paid 52% of $1500 = $780 you'd then be free rolling for the next 15 months. Thanks for posting. They will be on my radar for the time being. Doesn't seem like a sustainable model to me.
Ignore everything I said.

I forgot that it's not 30K US it's Rands so $1969 US so rather than put this one on my radar I'll put it with my other piles of excrement
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #5,144
  • Nov 5, 2021 3:58am Nov 5, 2021 3:58am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Ignore everything I said. I forgot that it's not 30K US it's Rands so $1969 US so rather than put this one on my radar I'll put it with my other piles of excrement
Too late man. I've already gone ahead to buy the largest available account offered on the basis of your appraisal.
Could you kindly refund me?
  • #5,145
  • Nov 5, 2021 7:02am Nov 5, 2021 7:02am
Perfect fit for Funding Talent refugees.

Attached Image
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #5,146
  • Nov 5, 2021 7:27am Nov 5, 2021 7:27am
Quoting Cryptosurf
Perfect fit for Funding Talent refugees. {image}

Wil the MFF'ers get their discord back now as the parasites migrate?
  • #5,147
  • Nov 5, 2021 9:40am Nov 5, 2021 9:40am
Quoting JotaP
{quote} Move money out of South Africa is difficult. Next scammer, please,
Actually if you're an overseas investor you can take your profits out without any problem. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but that was the position a few years ago.

Pity I don't know anyone in Sandton otherwise I would ask them to have a look and see if these guys do exist

Otherwise of course we can ask Blake to do an interview with the CEO!
  • #5,148
  • Nov 5, 2021 10:37am Nov 5, 2021 10:37am
Quoting Koop
{quote} Too late man. I've already gone ahead to buy the largest available account offered on the basis of your appraisal. Could you kindly refund me?
Sorry bitch. Too late. I'm flying around the world on your dime

Best regards,

-Jessica
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #5,149
  • Nov 5, 2021 10:41am Nov 5, 2021 10:41am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Sorry bitch. Too late. I'm flying around the world on your dime Best regards, -Jessica
hang on..... where's the ass pic? Can't have a Jessica post without her cottage cheese ass
  • #5,150
  • Nov 5, 2021 1:39pm Nov 5, 2021 1:39pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
Perfect fit for Funding Talent refugees. {image}
Sounds good at first but after that, it's every 30 days (that's the way I read it on their website - must say it's very confusing!!
  • #5,151
  • Edited 8:59am Nov 6, 2021 8:07am | Edited 8:59am
As many of you already know, my FTMO journey passed another milestone.
Don't want to reiterate everything that's been already posted here (and caused a bit more noise and emotions than I intended) so just in a nutshell:

  1. ordered and passed the challenge, the process was very quick and smooth
  2. passed the verification, also smooth until...

    1. received a rejection from the FTMO Trading Department for using forbidden trading practices (on DOT symbol which was newly added to the FTMO portfolio just a few days before I started trading)
    2. after a little quibble my trading was reviewed and reassessed to legitimate, which means

  3. I'm going to get funded in the days to come

Despite a snag during the verification process I still consider the whole experience rather positive, mostly due to their professional approach and ability to reconsider their view based on my provided arguments.

I had a bit higher expectations regarding the FTMO support responsiveness. 47.5 hours of radio silence preceding any response might be within their T&C (of 48) but they could do better than that. Even a simple automated response would've changed everything and prevented this whole case going public
I think this is definitely something for them to think about and improve.

Anyways, the result for me is positive and I'm getting ready to become the full fledged FTMO trader

Will keep you posted & have a good one all!

Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #5,152
  • Nov 6, 2021 9:32am Nov 6, 2021 9:32am
Although the probability of passing Challenges just by luck (or average trader competence) is less than 5%, it is much higher when we trade large volumes on a small number of trades that happened to be lucky sniper shots.
This can be easily demonstrated mathematically, but here is just a simply link to give awareness on the subject.

On the other hand, to be long term profitable the trader really needs to have the competence to turn the odds on their favor and use real Risk Management.

Of course, almost all unlikely figures that appear in FTMO videos to explain how they proceeded to pass Challenges in less than 10 days used the large volume strategy (the others obviously used lucky robots).
This passes the illusion that FTMO Challenges are easy and this is important to keep coming the herd of morons FTMO needs to keep the system rolling.
Follow your guts, if you want to lose your money...
  • #5,153
  • Nov 6, 2021 10:14am Nov 6, 2021 10:14am
Quoting JotaP
Although the probability of passing Challenges just by luck (or average trader competence) is less than 5%, it is much higher when we trade large volumes on a small number of trades that happened to be lucky sniper shots. This can be easily demonstrated mathematically, but here is just a simply link to give awareness on the subject. On the other hand, to be long term profitable the trader really needs to have the competence...
I agree with your view on the long term trading profitable strategy. However, trading Challenges requires different approach as, in most cases, profitable traders are not capable of gaining 10% each month or on every 30-day attempt. I use the following approach instead:

I bet high on the day one, or the first day when I see a high probability setup. I take up to 3-4% risk if I see a realistic oportunity of my trade working out. When I'm right, and the RR is say 3-4:1 or better I can hit the target on that day.

if it doesn't work out (shit happens) I'm 3-4% down and start working like a normal human trying to get even during the remaining time to ensure the free retake (I still have the rest of the month which should be just fine).

That's it. It doesn't always work, but in my case it worked many times already (not only this time with FTMO)

It goes without saying that this insane approach is not suitable for trading the funded account...
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #5,154
  • Nov 6, 2021 10:30am Nov 6, 2021 10:30am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} I agree with your view on the long term trading profitable strategy. However, trading Challenges requires different approach as, in most cases, profitable traders are not capable of gaining 10% each month or on every 30-day attempt. I use the following approach instead: I bet high on the day one, or the first day when I see a high probability setup. I take up to 3-4% risk if I see a realistic oportunity of my trade working out. When I'm right, and the RR is say 3-4:1 or better I can hit the target on that day. if it doesn't work out (shit...
I know it works many times. And we can get rich very fast when we have a strike of very good shots.
The Kelly Criterion is all about that.

I have used it to grow an account from $300 to $30000 in 1.5 months. Then, I have blown half of it in the minutes it takes to pick a beer from the fridge. It was in the big oil dip, 21st April last year.
Follow your guts, if you want to lose your money...
  • #5,155
  • Nov 6, 2021 10:45am Nov 6, 2021 10:45am
Quoting JotaP
{quote} I know it works many times. And we can get rich very fast when we have a strike of very good shots. The Kelly Criterion is all about that. I have used it to grow an account from $300 to $30000 in 1.5 months. Then, I have blown half of it in the minutes it takes to pick a beer from the fridge. It was in the big oil dip, 21st April last year.
Psychology is the key (well I know it probably wouldn't make any difference in your case anyway). If you slide to revenge trade or chasing the market then it may get devastating.
Once in the past I made $160k from $1200 in about the same time as you, just to give back most of it afterwards as well. Gold it was back then. Wild beginnings...
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #5,156
  • Nov 6, 2021 11:05am Nov 6, 2021 11:05am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} Psychology is the key (well I know it probably wouldn't make any difference in your case anyway). If you slide to revenge trade or chasing the market then it may get devastating. Once in the past I made $160k from $1200 in about the same time as you, just to give back most of it afterwards as well. Gold it was back then. Wild beginnings...
I believe also in the effects of psychology in a global context, namely how the big market manipulators use it to rip off our pockets.
Few mentors talk about that, if any at all.
Follow your guts, if you want to lose your money...
  • #5,157
  • Nov 6, 2021 11:15am Nov 6, 2021 11:15am
Quoting JotaP
Although the probability of passing Challenges just by luck (or average trader competence) is less than 5%, it is much higher when we trade large volumes on a small number of trades that happened to be lucky sniper shots. This can be easily demonstrated mathematically, but here is just a simply link to give awareness on the subject. On the other hand, to be long term profitable the trader really needs to have the competence...
Great point. On my funded accounts, all of my risk is based on available DD. I call it risk of ruin, I risk 3% of my available "risk of ruin". So if you are risking 3% per trade on a personal account, your risk of ruin is based on entire equity. Of course, if you did that with prop firm, you are done in 3-4 trades. Even the best traders can and will lose 3-4 in a row. With this approach, I can grind out 1-1.5% per week of the actual size of the account, so 10-15% of the DD allowed. No target to hit, so it is a very relaxed, stress-free approach (for me).

This approach on a challenge will most often get you close, but not quite. I have completely changed my mind set on the challenges. The time to grind out 6% and then start over the next month at 0 is simply not worth it. Do that 3-4 months in a row and your personal account will be larger than the DD the prop firm will provide. So yes, go big initially, pass or get as close as you can in 1-2 trades and coast to the target. Worse case, get + and do a free retake, which is where you would wind up if conservative the entire challenge. This is only my opinion on stage 1, stage 2 can be a relaxing, stress-free journey.

With all of this being said, it further exemplifies my point of the scaling model (5%ers, CTI, LUX)...where you pay $900 for $800 in DD. Same fee gets you 24K with MFF. Using the 3% risk of ruin approach, you can risk $24/trade with the 5%ers or $720/trade with MFF.....FOR THE SAME INITIAL COST!!!!!!
  • #5,158
  • Nov 6, 2021 11:33am Nov 6, 2021 11:33am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote}On my funded accounts, all of my risk is based on available DD.
That's the best way of trading the funded account
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #5,159
  • Edited 11:55am Nov 6, 2021 11:45am | Edited 11:55am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Great point. On my funded accounts, all of my risk is based on available DD. I call it risk of ruin, I risk 3% of my available "risk of ruin". So if you are risking 3% per trade on a personal account, your risk of ruin is based on entire equity. Of course, if you did that with prop firm, you are done in 3-4 trades. Even the best traders can and will lose 3-4 in a row. With this approach, I can grind out 1-1.5% per week of the actual size of the account, so 10-15% of the DD allowed. No target to hit, so it is a very relaxed, stress-free approach...
In the 5ers, you pay $900 to be evaluated to be eligible to manage $80000 capital and be allowed the privilege of have a drawdown of $3200.
It sucks! Leverage is very small and they also limit risk size per instrument.
It is all so boring, trading only the 28 main Currency pairs, if we can somehow survive the tedium we will belong to a complete distinct elite.

These so-called bootcamps are even more exhausting, I doubt anyone can survive. Pay $50 to do a triple exhausting challenge to have the privilege to pay $250.00 for a 100K Account.
Follow your guts, if you want to lose your money...
  • #5,160
  • Nov 6, 2021 12:00pm Nov 6, 2021 12:00pm
Quoting JotaP
{quote} In the 5ers, you pay $900 to be evaluated to be eligible to manage $80000 capital and be allowed the privilege of have a drawdown of $3200. It sucks! Leverage is very small and they also limit risk size per instrument. It is all so boring, trading only the 28 main Currency pairs, if we can somehow survive the tedium we will belong to a complete distinct elite. These so-called bootcamp are even more exhausting, I doubt anyone can survive. Pay $50 to do a triple exhausting challenge to have the privilege to...
Yes, I don't quite get what folks see in those models. 4% DD to make 7%....175% return, where FTMO 10% to make 10% and MFF is 12% to make 8%. Even when the 5%ers scale you to 3200 in DD, 3% risk of ruin is $96 per trade vs. $720 with MFF and $600 with FTMO.. To top it off they only pay a 50% split vs. 80-90%. Only reason folks join is the "no time limit". If time is not a concern, keep grinding your personal account, so you don't give up 50%. IMO, if you're joining one of those firms, you really don't need a prop firm.
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