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  • #5,021
  • Nov 3, 2021 6:44am Nov 3, 2021 6:44am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} Ok. So here we go with a fist problem in the way Despite my verification was marked complete and I was issued a certificate of successful completion, I received an email today that FTMO does not accept my trades for using "practices that are incompatible with serious and reasonable trading styles and rather exploit inefficiencies or technical/execution nuances or differences" My trades can be verified on myfxbook. All of them were manual trades, 100% legitimate,...
That does seem odd. I would go to there dedicated thread and see if there's something can be done. https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...erious-traders
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #5,022
  • Nov 3, 2021 7:00am Nov 3, 2021 7:00am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} Ok. So here we go with a fist problem in the way Despite my verification was marked complete and I was issued a certificate of successful completion, I received an email today that FTMO does not accept my trades for using "practices that are incompatible with serious and reasonable trading styles and rather exploit inefficiencies or technical/execution nuances or differences" My trades can be verified on myfxbook. All of them were manual trades, 100% legitimate,...
what is dot/usd (crypto?) and can you share a chart of it.
It's in fear when people show what they truly value.
  • #5,023
  • Nov 3, 2021 7:00am Nov 3, 2021 7:00am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} Ok. So here we go with a fist problem in the way Despite my verification was marked complete and I was issued a certificate of successful completion, I received an email today..
Its very likely an unenlightened fellow from support staff. I got strange stuff like that too when using a native MT4 algo function. Call, then write up an email, (educate them if need be), you'll be sorted.
  • #5,024
  • Nov 3, 2021 7:10am Nov 3, 2021 7:10am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} Ok. So here we go with a fist problem in the way Despite my verification was marked complete and I was issued a certificate of successful completion, I received an email today that FTMO does not accept my trades for using "practices that are incompatible with serious and reasonable trading styles and rather exploit inefficiencies or technical/execution nuances or differences" My trades can be verified on myfxbook. All of them were manual trades, 100% legitimate,...
On Second look because most trades are less then 1 pip profit/loss this may have triggered automated responder to issue a warning against this type of trading although for this instrument it may be perfectly fine depending on spread/range.
It's in fear when people show what they truly value.
  • #5,025
  • Edited 10:08am Nov 3, 2021 7:38am | Edited 10:08am
Quoting Koop
{quote} This is a very weird one. If you wouldn't mind, could you post the exact content of the mail they sent you? Or a screenshot or something. Don't bother if what you typed is basically all of it. Trades seem to have lasted several hours. I don't know what serious and reasonable trading means in this case. Lol maybe passing challenges with one YOLO trade is going to gradually become an issue.
the email I received (looks like an automated response for the selected "incompatible" practice - volume arbitrage in this case):

As you probably know already, at FTMO, we strive to encourage and support a professional approach to trading. We see trading as a demanding profession that requires long periods of self-study, strong discipline, and great analytical skills. We have created the project to help traders in similar situations such as we have once been in ourselves - traders who have what it takes to trade profitably but without appropriate capital to get into trading seriously. To these traders, we can open up the door to professional trading as the gains from the account sizes we offer can easily pay for the time necessarily spent by trading.


Unfortunately, some traders engage in practices that are incompatible with serious and reasonable trading styles and rather exploit inefficiencies or technical/execution nuances or differences. Such conducts are in direct conflict with our values and are classified as forbidden trading practices as per the Terms & Conditions and contract terms.


As you are probably aware, we offer a very good execution model which is the trader's favor, displaying the top-of-the-book quote only and offering it for the whole size of a trader's order. With respect to this, we have noticed that you traded DOTUSD in a way that presents substantiated reasons and evidence to define it as volume arbitration, taking advantage of the execution fills in the volume that is not present/unable to be counter-filled for the order of the volume you traded in the real market. In other words, scalping the huge volume of the asset on our platform, having unrealistic prices for the whole size whereas the LP's Top-of-the-book volumes are vastly different. Fills compared to VWAP (Volume Weighted Average Price) don't have the same/have different execution levels for the volume that is far from being unlimited in the markets. As a result, the benefited from unrealistic profits for the most part by exploiting these subtle differences on our platform compared to real-markets brokers.


Please take into account that not only is this style of volume arbitration not permitted but we are not able to replicate such trading on our end to make profits in the markets, and therefore such positions are not accountable. Also, such practices can not be considered a long-term profitable and mutually beneficial strategy. Such behavior exploits our services and misuses the technical circumstances or errors in prices/executions and quotes.

To avoid disabling your registration as a result of using forbidden trading practices, we would like to resolve this situation on a mutual understanding, finding a solution that is fair for both parties. Hence, we offer to provide you with a fresh new repeat of your FTMO Verification XXXXXX from the same stage so that you can prove your trading qualities and skills again, using a legitimate and reasonable trading style.


If you accept this resolution and want to cooperate with us going forward, we need your explicit reconfirmation and acknowledgment that you are 100% familiar with, comfortable and that you understand our Trading Objectives (https://ftmo.com/en/welcome/#objectives), Terms & Conditions (https://ftmo.com/en/terms-conditions/), Refund & Cancellation Policy (Article 12 of our T&C - https://ftmo.com/en/terms-conditions/#cancellation) and Execution Policy (https://ftmo.com/en/trading-accordin...e-real-market/).


We want to avoid any misunderstanding or confusion for any future cases and we want to be sure that you know the rules and that you are comfortable with them before you start using our products and services again.


Awaiting your response.

Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #5,026
  • Nov 3, 2021 7:42am Nov 3, 2021 7:42am
What is also interesting - they already unlinked the account from my profile so that I cannot verify the individual orders (and all the related details) in the trading platform (cTrader). They didn't do it with my challenge account, which is still fully accessible. Getting more and more weird
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #5,027
  • Nov 3, 2021 7:46am Nov 3, 2021 7:46am
Quoting ensale
{quote} what is dot/usd (crypto?) and can you share a chart of it.
It's Polkadot - the 7-8th most traded cryptocurrency
https://www.coinbase.com/price/polkadot
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #5,028
  • Nov 3, 2021 7:49am Nov 3, 2021 7:49am
Quoting ensale
{quote} On Second look because most trades are less then 1 pip profit/loss this may have triggered automated responder to issue a warning against this type of trading although for this instrument it may be perfectly fine depending on spread/range.
That 1 pip is only myfxbook nonsense. FTMO platform measured the moves as ~1000 pips (pip size of 0.001 USD) so that shouldn't be a problem :-)
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #5,029
  • Nov 3, 2021 7:49am Nov 3, 2021 7:49am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} Ok. So here we go with a fist problem in the way Despite my verification was marked complete and I was issued a certificate of successful completion, I received an email today that FTMO does not accept my trades for using "practices that are incompatible with serious and reasonable trading styles and rather exploit inefficiencies or technical/execution nuances or differences" My trades can be verified on myfxbook. All of them were manual trades, 100% legitimate,...
Sorry mate im not used to myfxbook, but is that an average of 3.5 pips per trade?, or 3.5 pips total over 12 trades?
  • #5,030
  • Nov 3, 2021 8:02am Nov 3, 2021 8:02am
Quoting Paulscaff1
{quote} Sorry mate im not used to myfxbook, but is that an average of 3.5 pips per trade?, or 3.5 pips total over 12 trades?
In this case myfxbook pips are nonsense. 4 trades were larger, about 1 USD of price change each (~1000 pips measured by FTMO), 8 trades were small just to meet the trading days target
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #5,031
  • Nov 3, 2021 8:17am Nov 3, 2021 8:17am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} In this case myfxbook pips are nonsense. 4 trades were larger, about 1 USD of price change each (~1000 pips measured by FTMO), 8 trades were small just to meet the trading days target
To be fair to them they appear to be willing to work it out with you, I think the main issue will be from the liquidity pool and the spread availability being wider than your average orders, perhaps?

I only trade currencies so am only familiar with 10 points = 1 pip using this scale I am aware of providers not wanting anything 1 pip or less on majors as they can or will lose money on slippage, it is even called "Toxic" I am led to believe!

I would clarify what they want as a minimum closed order and build your model around that.

Not pointing this statement at you at all but traders should be aware that this is prop world now and not broker world. They can change the rules and pick who they want on their team, so work with them if you want to trade with them.
  • #5,032
  • Nov 3, 2021 8:38am Nov 3, 2021 8:38am
Quoting Fagin
{quote} To be fair to them they appear to be willing to work it out with you, I think the main issue will be from the liquidity pool and the spread availability being wider than your average orders, perhaps? I only trade currencies so am only familiar with 10 points = 1 pip using this scale I am aware of providers not wanting anything 1 pip or less on majors as they can or will lose money on slippage, it is even called "Toxic" I am led to believe! I would clarify what they want as a minimum closed order and build your model around that. Not pointing...
I feel the same way.. in the end, traders live accounts are tied to FTMO prop accounts, they don't want their money on risks by copying the traders trades. . Its their rules that we have to follow if we want to trade for them,
  • #5,033
  • Nov 3, 2021 9:48am Nov 3, 2021 9:48am
Quoting Vitore
DOTUSD
-I traded cryptocurrency on exchanges for a some time before making the switch to broker/indices. The reason that you were not passed is likely because of realistic availability of volume. If you tried to trade the exact same way under real market conditions, then your results would be very different because the volume for crypto just isn't there like it is for FX.

Just trade something else, like indices, and you should pass without any problems. Maybe they will give you a free retry, given the nature of the issue.
  • #5,034
  • Nov 3, 2021 9:49am Nov 3, 2021 9:49am
Quoting Fagin
{quote} To be fair to them they appear to be willing to work it out with you, I think the main issue will be from the liquidity pool and the spread availability being wider than your average orders, perhaps? I only trade currencies so am only familiar with 10 points = 1 pip using this scale I am aware of providers not wanting anything 1 pip or less on majors as they can or will lose money on slippage, it is even called "Toxic" I am led to believe! I would clarify what they want as a minimum closed order and build your model around that. Not pointing...
I agree. I also think their LP is the problem but how am I, as the trader on their demo account, supposed to know what volume of DOT their LP's provide at any single time for their own live trading? The DoM is useless as it constantly shows 100mil contracts at he market price, so obviously wrong.

Even if I wanted to trade "responsibly" and avoid any possible "volume arbitrage" (as they called my trading) I cannot do that because they don't provide any guidance on what would be the available volume for them on each instrument. I can only guess but they can always say I was wrong.

So yes, they offer me to retake the Verification if I confirm I understand their rules which they don't fully reveal. I hoped they would be more transparent in this. But let's see how this plays out
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #5,035
  • Nov 3, 2021 9:59am Nov 3, 2021 9:59am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I traded cryptocurrency on exchanges for a some time before making the switch to broker/indices. The reason that you were not passed is likely because of realistic availability of volume. If you tried to trade the exact same way under real market conditions, then your results would be very different because the volume for crypto just isn't there like it is for FX. Just trade something else, like indices, and you should pass without any problems. Maybe they will give you a free retry, given the nature of the issue.
I agree, I see it the same way. As I wrote above, I did not (and could not) expect their limited volume availability. The platform's DoM shows nonsense and the real market volume traded on that day was at least 1,000x as big as all my positions combined so I assumed it wasn't too big. Actually, I was trading DOT in the same time on my live account (with Pepperstone) without any slippage but lover volume of course (~100 units)
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #5,036
  • Nov 3, 2021 10:01am Nov 3, 2021 10:01am
Quoting Paulscaff1
Just want to say that personally for me (i dont know about anyone else) I dont mind guys like DylanE8 coming in here and throwing their neck on the chopping block to address an issue, because if they can come out on top with a solid argument then that helps enforce our trust in the firm, and therefore the thread has done its job. If they didnt come in here to address issues then we would all just be venting issues but making no progress which is pointless. The way I see it, and the way I see any any argument/debate, is about each party displaying...
Hi all,

I have stopped responding here as the community has requested. I only came here initially to be a healthy part of the propfirm hub discussion. We offer pairs that are in high demand or ones our traders request, we are adding AUDCAD now, but it was never advertised that we would have it anywhere. I do not wish to go back and forth on this thread. We have live chat support and email support anyone can use.

I do not find it appropriate to have disputes with members regarding their own opinion of our services, Jota never placed one trade with us, trial or paid. He was refunded. We are a very legitimate firm with great trading conditions offered. As I expressed to Jota, please feel free to do your own research and test our platform for yourself- its free after-all. I have spoke with paypal to issue him the refund on his fees and they said they do not offer refunds on fees. We simply authorized refund via paypal as soon as we saw his request and this is all we can do. Paypal does not even give us the option to refund over the amount we have received. Everyone must understand, if you purchase through paypal or any other merchant service, they charge the fees and we receive the amount after they are charged. It is not up to us.

Wish you all great trading success!

Sincerely,

Dylan
  • #5,037
  • Nov 3, 2021 10:02am Nov 3, 2021 10:02am
Quoting Vitore
The platform's DoM shows nonsense and the real market volume traded on that day was at least 1,000x as big as all my positions combined so I assumed it wasn't too big. Actually, I was trading DOT in the same time on my live account (with Pepperstone) without any slippage but lover volume of course (~100 units)
-It will depend on which exchange that they use.
  • #5,038
  • Nov 3, 2021 10:03am Nov 3, 2021 10:03am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} I agree. I also think their LP is the problem but how am I, as the trader on their demo account, supposed to know what volume of DOT their LP's provide at any single time for their own live trading? The DoM is useless as it constantly shows 100mil contracts at he market price, so obviously wrong. Even if I wanted to trade "responsibly" and avoid any possible "volume arbitrage" (as they called my trading) I cannot do that because they don't provide any guidance on what would be the available volume for them on each instrument. I can only...
It's tricky I guess, playing devils advocate i wouldn't want to disclose publicy what the exact criteria is if I was them too because the competition would use it against them?

I don't trade crypto at all but I would imagine because the only base security against them is volume they could in theory evaporate to nothing overnight? It's not like a country sells bonds to secure it's debt so the meltdown would be unlikely in a G7 country.

Would you like to hold $1m of your own cash in Polkadot overnight with no hedge?

But you are right, they should be very clear on what they want and don't want. Actually I would be very surprised if ANY orders for crypto actually even reach an exchange, now that's a more interesting question...
  • #5,039
  • Nov 3, 2021 10:05am Nov 3, 2021 10:05am
Today DOT had a trading volume of $720 Million on Binance.

From my accountings you were trading about 400 MT4 lots (lot size 10, corresponds to 4000 DOT) on the second trade.
So, it was a purchase of $172754.52 (1 DOT=$43.18863)

I don't know if this order had the capability to move the market price from $43.18863 to $44.48200. Probably, if it was placed all at the same time. This the FTMO argument, I believe.
Follow your guts, if you want to lose your money...
  • #5,040
  • Edited 10:41am Nov 3, 2021 10:26am | Edited 10:41am
Quoting DylanE8
{quote} Hi all, I have stopped responding here as the community has requested. I only came here initially to be a healthy part of the propfirm hub discussion. We offer pairs that are in high demand or ones our traders request, we are adding AUDCAD now, but it was never advertised that we would have it anywhere. I do not wish to go back and forth on this thread. We have live chat support and email support anyone can use. I do not find it appropriate to have disputes with members regarding their own opinion of our services, Jota never placed one trade...
I don't think you are very clever, but you keep trying to mislead people. You are exactly the kind of individual that uses all resources available to deny the evidence. You have no shame at all in your face.
I will show to everyone how refunds work with PayPal. This is a real order from my own Company.

Attached Image

Now, refund:

Attached Image


Now show me my transaction and the refund report in your Paypal account! Do it!
Follow your guts, if you want to lose your money...
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