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  • #1,321
  • Edited 1:31pm Oct 19, 2021 1:02pm | Edited 1:31pm
Quoting MaPi
Hi TeChaoLing, hope you are doing fine. Found something strange in Icarus 4.2, would be grateful for your thoughts: My settings: {image}{image} I would expect the EA to open a sell wenn above Bollinger and above 70 stochastic...This is what backtest is coming out: {image}When they are no positions it opens buy and sell at the same time...Can you advise me pls? Thx and cheers
Yes. I can explain it. From Icarus 4.1 on, including 4.2, Icarus will open both directions buy and sell orders when the trigger condition is satisfied.
The reason is, I think the original Icarus initiates both buy and sell cycles make sense and I want Icarus can go back to its original behavior even you use a trigger condition to initiate a first cycle.
As I mentioned before, I suggest you can set indicators for triggering the first cycle as follows. Use BB invert and RSI or STO invert to set your trigger condition for the very first cycle, when the trigger condition is satisfied, that means the first cycle to be initiated has a large probability become a loss cycle. Why? Because BB invert indicates the price is above or below the upper or the lower BB band, and RSI or STO invert indicates the price behavior is most likely in ranging. That is, the cycle you initiated will soon become a loss cycle. And at the same time another direction cycle is also initiated, the cycle will soon become a profitable cycle. When Icarus accumulate loss by adding orders to the loss cycle, Icarus can also take profit from the profitable cycle.
If you don't like both cycles to be opened at the same time, I can offer Icarus 4.3 to you. This version can let you choose whether or not to open both cycles.
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Set to false to open only one cycle. Of course, you can also arrange triggering conditions so that the first cycle initiated will soon become a profitable cycle and not to initiate another direction cycle. However, according to my understanding of Icarus, I suggest use BB invert and RSI or STO invert to trigger both cycles. Because RSI or STO invert can also prevent Icarus from initiating a cycle at the trending situation as much as possible.

Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 Icarus_4.3.ex4   167 KB | 469 downloads
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Icarus_4.3.mq4   248 KB | 529 downloads
  • #1,322
  • Oct 19, 2021 2:00pm Oct 19, 2021 2:00pm
Quoting TeChaoLiang
{quote} Yes. I can explain it. From Icarus 4.1 on, including 4.2, Icarus will open both directions buy and sell orders when the trigger condition is satisfied. The reason is, I think the original Icarus initiates both buy and sell cycles make sense and I want Icarus can go back to its original behavior even you use a trigger condition to initiate a first cycle. As I mentioned before, I suggest you can set indicators for triggering the first cycle as follows. Use BB invert and RSI or STO invert to set your trigger condition for the very first cycle,...
Thx for 4.3...I will check also 4 2 functionality, but I need to find time for BT first...Just finished today a DD on EURUSD on buy side, and would like to shift over on my real account on your versions finaly, so 4.3 will help me because I can use my old settings more or less...Will give feedback on 4.3, sry for beeing slow atm, work is keeping me crazy busy...Cheers
Green pips 2 all of us!
  • #1,323
  • Oct 19, 2021 2:04pm Oct 19, 2021 2:04pm
Quoting TeChaoLiang
{quote} Yes. I can explain it. From Icarus 4.1 on, including 4.2, Icarus will open both directions buy and sell orders when the trigger condition is satisfied. The reason is, I think the original Icarus initiates both buy and sell cycles make sense and I want Icarus can go back to its original behavior even you use a trigger condition to initiate a first cycle. As I mentioned before, I suggest you can set indicators for triggering the first cycle as follows. Use BB invert and RSI or STO invert to set your trigger condition for the very first cycle,...
Great to have such a useful option in Icarus 4.3
Let's imagine when the trigger condition is met, Icarus takes of and opens 2 positions in different directions. The market is up trend and our buy cycle will be closed immediately with a low profit amount, meanwhile the other cycle (sell) is going down to losses and litterally the buy cycle couldn't have been of many assistance in order to cover or even compensate a part of our loss. Can you share your thoughts on it?

On the other hand by your earlier explanation and clarifying in your last post, I do know that inverting STO or RSI could be helpful to detemine the ranging marketand it's cool. But why do you suggest using BB Invert if we're goung to dive to the market by opening 2 differen directions?
  • #1,324
  • Edited 3:07pm Oct 19, 2021 2:56pm | Edited 3:07pm
Quoting Farzad666
{quote} Great to have such a useful option in Icarus 4.3 Let's imagine when the trigger condition is met, Icarus takes of and opens 2 positions in different directions. The market is up trend and our buy cycle will be closed immediately with a low profit amount, meanwhile the other cycle (sell) is going down to losses and litterally the buy cycle couldn't have been of many assistance in order to cover or even compensate a part of our loss. Can you share your thoughts on it? On the other hand by your earlier explanation and clarifying in your last...
It is the nature of Icarus logic, Icarus's virtual TP is according to the Take Profit value you set and virtual SL is according to the grid size you set. Virtual TP and SL are independent. Of course, it brings a dilemma to us. If you set a relative larger TP value, of course, you can take more profit from the profitable cycle but it also limit the possibility of the loss cycle to turn its loss into gain when the price is reverse. Note that, when a virtual TP is reached, Icarus doesn't add additional orders to chase the profit.

On the other hand, the reason I suggest to use BB invert is, we buy when the price is above the BB upper band and vise versa. It seems to put an order with a direction of against the trend, but that is exactly we want to. Because it will soon become a loss cycle so that Icarus can accumulate loss and waiting for the price being reversed to turn the loss into gain. (This is the mainly logic that Icarus make profit.) Icarus earn not so much via a profit cycle but earn a lot from the loss cycle when the price reverse its direction. Because in the loss cycle, Icarus adds many orders progressively, and the progressively added orders will bring you profits.
  • #1,325
  • Oct 19, 2021 3:19pm Oct 19, 2021 3:19pm
Quoting TeChaoLiang
{quote} Icarus earn not so much via a profit cycle but earn a lot from the loss cycle when the price reverse its direction. Because in the loss cycle, Icarus adds many orders progressively, and the progressively added orders will bring you profits.
What if we determine lower TP for the main cycle and a bigger TP for the opposite cycle? I mean that would be a usefull option to code in the next version of Icarus that allows us to adjust different TP and Grid size (SL) for either of Main Cycle AND Reverse Cycle. Also using different Porofit locks could be useful in compensating the opposite loss better.
IMHO it seems to be usefull when we use BB invert
  • #1,326
  • Oct 19, 2021 3:32pm Oct 19, 2021 3:32pm
Please can you add dd reduction to this ea

  1. DD Reduction Algoritm - drawdown reduction algorithm it when last order with profit will be close with first order series with loss.
  2. Number order for DD Reduction Algoritm - from which order the drawdown reduction algorithm is activated.
  3. Percent profit for DD Reduction Algoritm - percentage of profit when closing orders in the drawdown reduction mode.

  • #1,327
  • Edited 8:08pm Oct 19, 2021 4:35pm | Edited 8:08pm
Quoting Farzad666
{quote} What if we determine lower TP for the main cycle and a bigger TP for the opposite cycle? I mean that would be a usefull option to code in the next version of Icarus that allows us to adjust different TP and Grid size (SL) for either of Main Cycle AND Reverse Cycle. Also using different Porofit locks could be useful in compensating the opposite loss better. IMHO it seems to be usefull when we use BB invert
When the loss cycle turn to be a profitable cycle, it still under the same TP control. That is why we can not have two different TPs for two cycles.
Although there are many ways to improve Icarus, but there is no way to improve Icarus without changing its trading logic. When Icarus's trading logic is changed, Icarus won't be Icarus any more. I try to keep the trading logic of Icarus to be the same, from Icarus 2.x to Icarus 4.x. You can use later versions of Icarus to determine the timing of entering the market, but when entered, the logic of treating buy and sell cycles are the same as the original Icarus.

The only way you can do is trying to find an appropriate settings of TP value as well as the grid size via the optimization of back test.
  • #1,328
  • Oct 19, 2021 5:53pm Oct 19, 2021 5:53pm
Quoting d0d0
Please can you add dd reduction to this ea DD Reduction Algoritm - drawdown reduction algorithm it when last order with profit will be close with first order series with loss. Number order for DD Reduction Algoritm - from which order the drawdown reduction algorithm is activated. Percent profit for DD Reduction Algoritm - percentage of profit when closing orders in the drawdown reduction mode.
DD reduction algorithm can not be added into Icarus because it will destroy the logic of trading strategy of Icarus. Icarus is employing the temporary DD to reach the
future potential profit. When the DD of Icarus is reduced the profit of Icarus is also reduced.
  • #1,329
  • Oct 19, 2021 9:31pm Oct 19, 2021 9:31pm
Hello!

I wanted to contribute with a suggestion, which from my point of view, is the most correct way to run GRIDs. Before knowing Icaru, I went through a lot of EAs, and all of them opened the GRIDs in a different way than Icaru. I explain:

Icaru takes the Spread as part of the distance we place in the Icaru configuration, therefore, when it increases the Spread more, it starts opening trades closer together. I understand that there is a configuration, to open trades that do not exceed XX Spread. But in my humble opinion, I think Icaru would be safer if it did not add the Spread as part of the distance of each order.

I am not a coder, otherwise, I would gladly make the changes. This is the only thing I have seen so far from this fabulous EA, and I wanted to share it.
  • #1,330
  • Oct 20, 2021 12:42am Oct 20, 2021 12:42am
Quoting TeChaoLiang
{quote} DD reduction algorithm can not be added into Icarus because it will destroy the logic of trading strategy of Icarus. Icarus is employing the temporary DD to reach the future potential profit. When the DD of Icarus is reduced the profit of Icarus is also reduced.
It's will help to not below the account, as you see all grid ea at end can below the account if stron trend
So dd reduction will help to not belown and you can make it choice to active or disabled at the option of ea

Please add it to ea
  • #1,331
  • Oct 20, 2021 4:09am Oct 20, 2021 4:09am
Quoting d0d0
{quote} It's will help to not below the account, as you see all grid ea at end can below the account if stron trend So dd reduction will help to not belown and you can make it choice to active or disabled at the option of ea Please add it to ea
You can set Account Risk to control your loss.
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If you set Account Risk to 0.3 which means when your DD is large 30% of your balance the EA will close all the orders.
This is the only way you can do. As I mentioned before, I cannot or I won't add anythings into Icarus and changing its trading strategy.
  • #1,332
  • Oct 20, 2021 4:15am Oct 20, 2021 4:15am
Quoting Michelx
I think Icaru would be safer if it did not add the Spread as part of the distance of each order.
No, Icarus did not add the spread as part of the distance of each order.
  • #1,333
  • Oct 20, 2021 4:42am Oct 20, 2021 4:42am
For those with patience, please find my contribution to the thread.

Rgds
Attached File(s)
File Type: zip Icarus4.3_H4.zip   1 KB | 493 downloads
  • #1,334
  • Oct 20, 2021 4:44am Oct 20, 2021 4:44am
Quoting TeChaoLiang
{quote} You can set Account Risk to control your loss. {image}If you set Account Risk to 0.3 which means when your DD is large 30% of your balance the EA will close all the orders. This is the only way you can do. As I mentioned before, I cannot or I won't add anythings into Icarus and changing its trading strategy.
What the ea can do for this strong trend
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  • #1,335
  • Oct 20, 2021 4:59am Oct 20, 2021 4:59am
Quoting TeChaoLiang
{quote} When the loss cycle turn to be a profitable cycle, it still under the same TP control. That is why we can not have two different TPs for two cycles. Although there are many ways to improve Icarus, but there is no way to improve Icarus without changing its trading logic. When Icarus's trading logic is changed, Icarus won't be Icarus any more. I try to keep the trading logic of Icarus to be the same, from Icarus 2.x to Icarus 4.x. You can use later versions of Icarus to determine the timing of entering the market, but when entered, the logic...
I can totally follow your idea regarding keeping the logic as it is but wouldn't it be better to keep profits high and DD low instead of insistence on a special logic (which will fail sooner or later for sure).

An EA is a tool to automate trading, Ikarus 2.x till latest can not fulfil this requirement on the long run, that's a mathematical fact. The time will come where you have to intervene manually to not loose your whole account, or at least a huge percentage from it and that's simply not the idea what EA´s made for. I also think MaPi will not have a big problem with it to change the logic to the better, especially not if we get an on the long run stable EA will a low DD and account protection.

We should think about this in general, in my opinion it's not the best idea to try to win the race with an 50 horse power VW Golf when the competitors are driving BMW M5 Competition...

However, there are more options:

Option 1: Improve here and get it better from version to version
Option 2: Rename the expert, start a new thread and use Ikarus 4.3 as base for OPEN improvement (If MaPi allows of course)
Option 3: is simple, concept failed. Period.
  • #1,336
  • Edited 5:27am Oct 20, 2021 5:02am | Edited 5:27am
Hi, 4.3 is opening 2 Orders at the same price in one direction when function "Initiate both Cycles" is false, can you please check?

When the fuction is activated i see some strange behaivor on the volume side wich is unknown to me (First order 0,01 second order 0,21):

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Can you please check and come back to me? Thx and cheers
Green pips 2 all of us!
  • #1,337
  • Oct 20, 2021 5:12am Oct 20, 2021 5:12am
Hey guys, hope you are doing well. Short update on my real account (5K start, 1:400 leverage):

As reported before I crushed the account in summer on a doomsday drawdown, after liquidation I had about 1.400,- € on it. Since then I was able to come back, the graph you are seeing is giving you a good idea why I named this project Icarus

Equity is on a all time high (12-974,19€), and I am confident to set a new balance high (it went so high in summer during DD because I was activly using the hedge function of the EA) before the end of this year, even with a less risk approach (I used to start the cycle with 0,10 Lot, now I am on 0,05).

Fun facts beside, 577 Lot EURUSD have been traded and I am set on institutional rates with my broker nowadays (EURUSD Avg 0.00002 + 3€/Lot com)

Because of a stupid new taxrule in my country I can not have more than 20K loss a year, so the only concern is, that this will stop me trading before end of year. Anyhow, having still plans to bring my experience with the EA to youtube beginning of next year.

Cheers

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Green pips 2 all of us!
  • #1,338
  • Oct 20, 2021 5:51am Oct 20, 2021 5:51am
Quoting mr.trader
{quote} I can totally follow your idea regarding keeping the logic as it is but wouldn't it be better to keep profits high and DD low instead of insistence on a special logic (which will fail sooner or later for sure). An EA is a tool to automate trading, Ikarus 2.x till latest can not fulfil this requirement on the long run, that's a mathematical fact. The time will come where you have to intervene manually to not loose your whole account, or at least a huge percentage from it and that's simply not the idea what EA´s made for. I also think MaPi...
Hello to Austria

I am absoltly open to any changes making the EA better. At the cuurent moment I think NOT about new indicators, but about the logic of Icarus. This includes thoughts like hedging, usability (if possible also on non FX products, controll of trading hours and so on...

Just checked 4.3 shortly and found some small issues wich are allready adressed, but I think this version is giving us a good basement for further improvements...

Also I am thinking that Icarus himslef is a good indicator letting us know if we should go contrtrand or with the trend...

E.G: Within the BB (e.g. 20, 0.5) and within RSI 40/60 we allow the EA to open both cycles. We define how many orders he can open. When a cycle has reached this amount, we open a new cycle with the trend. When reaching BB (e.g. 20, 2.5) and RSI 30/70 the first cycle is contiued with the same volume logic it had allready.

This was now very briefly, but maybe you guys understand the core of my thinking...

So again, I am more than open to any changes, you do not even have to ask me, the EA is my tribute to the community here combined with my wish, to make it better...BUT WE SHOULD NOT START ADDING ALL THE INDICATORS AT THE MOMENT, WE WILL MAKE THE EA BETTER WITHIN HIS CODE, once we have done this we can speak about new indicators...

Cheers
Green pips 2 all of us!
  • #1,339
  • Oct 20, 2021 6:41am Oct 20, 2021 6:41am
Friends, Traders Coders, thank you for your support on the project Cheers
Green pips 2 all of us!
  • #1,340
  • Oct 20, 2021 10:46am Oct 20, 2021 10:46am
Quoting MaPi
{quote} Hello to Austria I am absoltly open to any changes making the EA better. At the cuurent moment I think NOT about new indicators, but about the logic of Icarus. This includes thoughts like hedging, usability (if possible also on non FX products, controll of trading hours and so on... Just checked 4.3 shortly and found some small issues wich are allready adressed, but I think this version is giving us a good basement for further improvements... Also I am thinking that Icarus himslef is a good indicator letting us know if we should...
MARK THIS WORDS - IMPROVEMENT INSTEAD OF EGO! This is a great base to work together!

I totally agree that new indicators won't bring us this huge steps forward what we need here, the base is stable but there are a few things to address:

Multi Asset / Multi Broker usage
We still facing the problems, that we can not use it at all the different brokers at any symbol. For example, it is not working on IGBank on indices (1 digit as I read this). I know the EA is developed for currencies but works like a charm in induced too.

Time based start/stop:
Would be great to have an "Opening Mode" where we can set the time (HH:MM:SS) when the EA should open a long short trade and manages both directions AND only one cycle. This mode will be a cash cow in Indices CFD trading, if you trade only the opening (one order in both directions) and send the EA to sleep you can increase the starting lot and earn up to 1-2% a day with very low risk.

Hedging Mode / reduce DD:
There should be a hedging mode included to reduce drawdown. I also like the DD reducing also idea from "d0d0", we should think about that!

Let´s work together to improve this EA and not stuck to a logic that is not able to satisfy us on the long run - that's my idea, so we can make Ikarus fly high! (or however we will call it )
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