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  • #4,181
  • Sep 28, 2021 8:24am Sep 28, 2021 8:24am
Quoting JotaP
{quote} But there is an important difference between FTMO and MFF. FTMO uses Absolute Drawdown, MFF uses Relative Drawdown.
Relative drawdown may be a trap. I remember that the5ers had relative drawdown and removed it because was very unpopular.
  • #4,182
  • Sep 28, 2021 8:38am Sep 28, 2021 8:38am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I spoke to them, if you buy now, its only going to be 5 days cos on the 5th day you will be after 1st nd they will be giving to everyone.
Oh,

Someone asked today and the response was kinda confusing to me.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 5 days new.png Size: 28 KB

But yeah, buying today will "overlap" the 1st so what you're saying makes sense.'
  • #4,183
  • Sep 28, 2021 8:39am Sep 28, 2021 8:39am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} I had three phase II credentials arrive within 24 hrs.
Yes, had mine within 24 hours as well. When I get paid, I request on Fridays and I am paid and account reset by market open Sunday. I literally miss 0 trading time. As I said last night, more and more people reporting on their "opinion" rather than real experience with these firms.
  • #4,184
  • Sep 28, 2021 9:06am Sep 28, 2021 9:06am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, had mine within 24 hours as well. When I get paid, I request on Fridays and I am paid and account reset by market open Sunday. I literally miss 0 trading time. As I said last night, more and more people reporting on their "opinion" rather than real experience with these firms.
yes pipmaster, here in this thread we only need real personal experiences with prop firm.
so please, guys we supposed not to waste time here for information that we can all find it clear on their thread and website. also everyone has his own preferences and interests, so comparing prop firms doesn't make scene.
payout proof, customer service and dealing difficulty you face. that's all we need and let traders choose which suite them.
  • #4,185
  • Sep 28, 2021 9:07am Sep 28, 2021 9:07am
Lol I don't know why you guys seem surprised. It's not like you didn't deal with way worse when FTMO was the sole subject of weird attacks.

And it's mostly people who haven't purchased the programs or gained any first hand experience.
  • #4,186
  • Sep 28, 2021 9:29am Sep 28, 2021 9:29am
Quoting Koop
Lol I don't know why you guys seem surprised. It's not like you didn't deal with way worse when FTMO was the sole subject of weird attacks. And it's mostly people who haven't purchased the programs or gained any first hand experience.

its really weird to be honest in the facebook groups and Telegram groups how things happen.

Everyone is being calm and having nice conversations, everyone has their preferences and clearly says why/why not. Then in one day, for no reason, XYZ firm is being blasted and the comment is always something like XYZ IS SO SHIT THEY WILL SCAM YOU SO BEEST TO USE ZXY company

Almost like its a paid brigade service.

Then 3 days later it stops and people go back to talking as normal.

The only thing that confuses me as I have seen it twice only, and the ZXY company was funding talent (most of the time) but recently FTMO. For FTMO i am putting it down to conisidence for now, but you can pay for brigading services.
  • #4,187
  • Sep 28, 2021 9:48am Sep 28, 2021 9:48am
Quoting Feelas
{quote} Did this really happen to you?
Yes, otherwise I wouldn't be mentioning it. When they get swamped their customer service can be slow so it'll be interesting to see how they'll fare when the new minimum day requirement kicks in in October.
  • #4,188
  • Sep 28, 2021 10:57am Sep 28, 2021 10:57am
Quoting Takisd;
its really weird to be honest in the facebook groups and Telegram groups how things happen. Everyone is being calm and having nice conversations, everyone has their preferences and clearly says why/why not. Then in one day, for no reason, XYZ firm is being blasted
-The same thing happens here, it seems.
  • #4,189
  • Sep 28, 2021 11:00am Sep 28, 2021 11:00am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote} -The same thing happens here, it seems.

Far less so I think but every now and then new users show up with such messages. The majority of messages here are better than those groups really and there is trial and error going on and not just people asking "so which one should i buy".
  • #4,190
  • Sep 28, 2021 11:15am Sep 28, 2021 11:15am
Quoting Takisd;
every now and then new users show up with such messages
-Not just new users.
  • #4,191
  • Sep 28, 2021 12:55pm Sep 28, 2021 12:55pm
Quoting tinabb
{quote} Relative drawdown may be a trap. I remember that the5ers had relative drawdown and removed it because was very unpopular.
It is daily relative DD but overall absolute DD. I think 5%ers had both relative.
Follow your guts, if you want to lose your money...
  • #4,192
  • Sep 28, 2021 1:27pm Sep 28, 2021 1:27pm
Quoting tinabb
{quote} Relative drawdown may be a trap. I remember that the5ers had relative drawdown and removed it because was very unpopular.
It's a trap mostly because of it's misleading name. Relative drawdown should not be used to describe the way of measuring it, but rather the way how it is represented.
The word relative indicates it is a %age of the account balance (or equity) as opposed to the word absolute which would indicate a currency amount.

Example:

Starting account balance = $100k
Actual account balance = $95k
Absolute balance drawdown = $5k
Relative balance drawdown = 5% (regardless of how it is measured; in this case it is balance to balance)

Using a different word could reduce the confusion
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #4,193
  • Sep 28, 2021 1:46pm Sep 28, 2021 1:46pm
Quoting Vitore
{quote} It's a trap mostly because of it's misleading name. Relative drawdown should not be used to describe the way of measuring it, but rather the way how it is represented. The word relative indicates it is a %age of the account balance (or equity) as opposed to the word absolute which would indicate a currency amount. Example: Starting account balance = $100k Actual account balance = $95k Absolute balance drawdown = $5k Relative balance drawdown = 5% (regardless of how it is measured; in this case it is balance to balance) Using a different...
Well, no, it is not the same thing.

https://the5ers.com/wp-content/uploa...2/drawdwon.jpg
Follow your guts, if you want to lose your money...
  • #4,194
  • Edited 2:10pm Sep 28, 2021 1:59pm | Edited 2:10pm
Quoting JotaP
{quote} Well, no, it is not the same thing. {image}
I don't know. You might be right, I just never seen it used in another meaning than the one I described until recently when these prop firms started popping up. And the fact that most traders did not understand the (new?) meaning and got confused just supported my view that it was incorrect.
So far I've seen only 5%ers and MFF using this term in this way

Just out of my curiosity - would you have some other non-prop firm source of such a definition?
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #4,195
  • Sep 28, 2021 2:59pm Sep 28, 2021 2:59pm
Btw. how would you call the daily drawdown as measured by all the other prop firms - i.e. from the account balance at the day start?

Everyone is used to call it "absolute" (even here if I'm not mistaken) but, apparently, this is wrong because according to this definition an absolute drawdown should only be the one measured from the initial account equity (deposit). But everyone calls that one "total" instead...

Confusion seems to be a mild expression
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #4,196
  • Sep 28, 2021 3:33pm Sep 28, 2021 3:33pm
Quoting Vitore
Btw. how would you call the daily drawdown as measured by all the other prop firms - i.e. from the account balance at the day start? Everyone is used to call it "absolute" (even here if I'm not mistaken) but, apparently, this is wrong because according to this definition an absolute drawdown should only be the one measured from the initial account equity (deposit). But everyone calls that one "total" instead... Confusion seems to be a mild expression
If I understood you correctly, it's being called "Non-Trailing Daily Draw Down" (or Non-Trailing Daily Loss Limit) .
IMO there is no single term for this (but my English is limited, so who knows)
  • #4,197
  • Sep 28, 2021 4:24pm Sep 28, 2021 4:24pm
Quoting Nsak3y
Quoting JustAVisit
MFF: "We allow anyone to open an account with us except for people from the following states in the USA: Arkansas (AR) Iowa (IA) Mississippi (MS) Missouri (MO)"

This is odd, why these states?
-I agree. Which is why I chose to challenge them on it. I have since been told that it is likely going to be removed, but I am still waiting on a definitive answer as their CEO waits for their legal team to confirm.

Since MFF is not acting as a broker, then MFF should not have any regulatory compliance obligations and therefore should be able to legally circumvent those requirements, especially since the business relationship with their traders is a contractor relationship.

On the other hand, if MFF is taking on that responsibility to ensure compliance for their broker, then MFF could be subject to the same laws and restrictions, which would not seem ideal from a legal or business perspective. That seems highly unlikely that they would elect to do that.

Obviously, there are other things to consider, such as broker offerings and what is allowed within certain jurisdictions, which countries have reciprocity agreements with US regulatory groups and compliance requirements for off-shore brokers etc.., which only brings the policy more into question since other US states are eligible. We will see.
-I have received an update from MFF regarding this. I was told that their legal team has reviewed the policy, and that it shall be removed from their website within a few days. So, good news.
  • #4,198
  • Sep 28, 2021 4:44pm Sep 28, 2021 4:44pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}{quote} -I have received an update from MFF regarding this. I was told that their legal team has reviewed the policy, and that it shall be removed from their website within a few days. So, good news.


Good to hear buddy.
  • #4,199
  • Sep 29, 2021 12:25am Sep 29, 2021 12:25am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} I don't know. You might be right, I just never seen it used in another meaning than the one I described until recently when these prop firms started popping up. And the fact that most traders did not understand the (new?) meaning and got confused just supported my view that it was incorrect. So far I've seen only 5%ers and MFF using this term in this way Just out of my curiosity - would you have some other non-prop firm source of such a definition?
The definition might have been originated from MetaQuotes (MT4/MT5) which use it consistently, including in reports from the platforms' Strategy Tester.
Follow your guts, if you want to lose your money...
  • #4,200
  • Sep 29, 2021 12:27am Sep 29, 2021 12:27am
Quoting Vitore
Btw. how would you call the daily drawdown as measured by all the other prop firms - i.e. from the account balance at the day start?
This is probably called Daily Drawdown.
Follow your guts, if you want to lose your money...
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