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  • #3,701
  • Sep 10, 2021 5:28am Sep 10, 2021 5:28am
Quoting adeolu.oguns
Prop account is the way to go if a trader is not sufficiently self funded and most importantly your personal trading style and risk threshold is permitted by the prop firm.
Not completely accurate.

Some traders choose the Prop Firm route because they want to add to their earnings even if their private accounts and investment portfolios afford them a comfortable lifestyle.

It's not all about underfunded traders, although the underfunded traders will certainly be enticed to have a go.

Masterrmind .........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #3,702
  • Sep 10, 2021 5:36am Sep 10, 2021 5:36am
Quoting Muhammedfx
You getting trigger on a simple friendly post shows your in security and lack of experience. Any ways we all are watching closely. Do continue. I appreciate atleast you have balls to put your TE in public and not like others. Truely mastermind is here to stay.
If you've read Post 1 you'd know a few more challenges have been recently added.

I'm very secure, highly disciplined and an excellent risk controller ... even so there is still no guarantee that an MFF challenge will be passed.

The TE's will be public but stops and targets and pending orders will remain hidden.

Enjoy the entertainment !

Masterrmind ........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #3,703
  • Sep 10, 2021 5:48am Sep 10, 2021 5:48am
Thank you for the entertainment
Allergic to bullshitters, never argue with fools
  • #3,704
  • Sep 10, 2021 5:56am Sep 10, 2021 5:56am
Quoting Koop
{quote} This is a very inaccurate representation IMO. First off, because your profit split is 70%, the value of your 100k account is only actually $7000? lol come on man...that's a very unrelated equation.. You can't decide on account balance value based on profit split.. Doesn't even make sense.. The value remains the same whether or not there is even a profit split or regardless of what the split is. Secondly, i've had this argument more times than i remember.... The moment people stop looking at this prop firm thing as "your account value is...

Sounds like you are blinded by the profits you are going to make rather than thinking in terms of the reality of profit / over investment risk which is the correct way of analyzing challenges. Hence, the profit split is entirely relevant as it determines your overall return.

Drawdown and risk of ruin is everything in trading as it will determine whether you stick to your system in the long run and risk of loosing ftmo account.
Thus, you are doing the wrong comparison, you are comparing trading the same way in your personal account vs trading with ftmo but this is wrong. The comparison should be based on risk of blowing the investment on your personal account vs loosing the ftmo account.

With $1200 I may trade with 1-1.5% risk per trade in my personal account as I know I can easily withstand a 40% drawdown, but with FTMO I would only be trading with 0.25% risk per trade in order to avoid a 10% drawdown. The 4 times less profitability results in a investment / return of around 6 times in my opinion for the majority of traders.
Your worst drawdown is yet to come
  • #3,705
  • Sep 10, 2021 5:58am Sep 10, 2021 5:58am
Quoting Muhammedfx
You getting trigger on a simple friendly post shows your in security and lack of experience. Any ways we all are watching closely. Do continue. I appreciate atleast you have balls to put your TE in public and not like others. Truely mastermind is here to stay.
What did you expect saying something like that? Lol i had to look up to see if he was down 5% or something...
Now you made Mtinifx take off his T.E as well....
You're sure you and QAnonAndy aren't the same person?

We're here to talk about prop firms not to give people shit who choose to show their T.Es....unless they ask for feedback directly or indirectly.
If you're going to say "he trades like you when you first started out"..... at least take one challenge first and publicize it so we could see how much better you've become.. because i remember you whining in the FTMO thread not long ago Muhammed Lol


TBH i hope this degenerates into a full blown mud fight...... been too friendly and quiet here lately!
  • #3,706
  • Sep 10, 2021 6:02am Sep 10, 2021 6:02am
Quoting Koop
{quote} What did you expect saying something like that? Lol i had to look up to see if he was down 5% or something... Now you made Mtinifx take off his T.E as well.... You're sure you and QAnonAndy aren't the same person? We're here to talk about prop firms not to give people shit who choose to show their T.Es....unless they ask for feedback directly or indirectly. If you're going to say "he trades like you when you first started out"..... at least take one challenge first and publicize it so we could see how much better you've become.. because...
Big mouth pissants are here to come and go!!
Mastermind is too polite!!.
on a postive roll...
  • #3,707
  • Edited 6:17am Sep 10, 2021 6:06am | Edited 6:17am
Quoting nebby
{quote} Sounds like you are blinded by the profits you are going to make rather than thinking in terms of the reality of profit / over investment risk which is the correct way of analyzing challenges. Hence, the profit split is entirely relevant as it determines your overall return. Drawdown and risk of ruin is everything in trading as it will determine whether you stick to your system in the long run and risk of loosing ftmo account. Thus, you are doing the wrong comparison, you are comparing trading the same way in your personal account vs trading...
One who considers both sides of the equation can't be blinded..... You on the other hand are only looking at loss potential and drawdown instead of looking at the risk involved while still considering the potential rewards.

You're also assuming that a trader will lose 3 challenges before passing one. What if they don't? Why aren't you comparing that $1200 in a personal account to 3 passed challenges amounting to $300,000?..... Do you still have a case in that comparison?

Also, Trading only 0.25% per trade in a 100k or 300k FTMO blows trading a personal account of $1200 at 1% per trade out of the water.
0.25% of 100k is $250 while 1% of $1200 is $12 per trade....... with a profitable system, which one makes more money in the long run?
.... i don't see the point in what you're saying...
Are you even accounting for withdrawals?
  • #3,708
  • Sep 10, 2021 6:26am Sep 10, 2021 6:26am
Quoting Muhammedfx
{quote} since you from Afghanistan and bored just look out of the window and enjoy the fight.
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Trading is SIMPLE not EASY.
  • #3,709
  • Sep 10, 2021 6:37am Sep 10, 2021 6:37am
Quoting garfield75
{quote} {image}
LOOOOL

dont worry Ill message twee and he knows me well.

also you should learn what is serious and what is joke.
Allergic to bullshitters, never argue with fools
  • #3,710
  • Sep 10, 2021 7:03am Sep 10, 2021 7:03am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Firstly, your comment is ridiculous and secondly it has no relevance. The challenge period is barely halfway through so giving up would be really silly and premature. Based on time left and where the equity stands nearer to the end of the challenge period I will either opt for a free retake by keeping the account just in profit or trade with heavier but calculated volume. Don't let me get started on your TE ... omg. ! ps. Post 1has been updated Masterrmind .........
Mate you're down 1.4 %... its over... there is no recovering from that.. Time to get a mcjob and move on....

Literally half a trade and you are in black so its funny someone would make such a comment
  • #3,711
  • Sep 10, 2021 7:20am Sep 10, 2021 7:20am
Now it will be interesting.........koop are you watching?
Allergic to bullshitters, never argue with fools
  • #3,712
  • Sep 10, 2021 7:34am Sep 10, 2021 7:34am
Quoting Koop
{quote} Wait Up Endgame, i'm going to challenge your calculations in a bit.... All models are totally inferior to the challenge models in the long run in terms of practical earnings and risk availability..... but an MFF accelerated account will outperform a personal account and the 5ers regular scaling account in the long run under normal realistic trading conditions... Still running the numbers... i'll be accounting for potential losses and reasonable risk appetite on the personal account. If my brain gets too stressed in the process, i'll just...
Looking forward to seeing your comparison of MFF accelarated vs. personal account.
  • #3,713
  • Edited 8:23am Sep 10, 2021 8:02am | Edited 8:23am
I can understand comparing the accelerated account program with a personal account IF there was no scaling. However, with the scaling benefit IMHO there is no contest. I mean in a few weeks IF you trade carefully and with very disciplined money management, and let's say you go for the 20k option, you could be sitting with a 120k/180k account with weekly payouts and of course once you get to that level your 5% DD allowance is far bigger.

If one manages 5% a week from the start, even at only 50% of the profits, that's not a bad payout every week! I make it around $3500 in your first month (if my maths is correct). Main thing is to get to 10% so that you get back your intitial investment of course.

Anyway that's my view
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  • #3,714
  • Sep 10, 2021 8:56am Sep 10, 2021 8:56am
Quoting Mtinifx
I can understand comparing the accelerated account program with a personal account IF there was no scaling. However, with the scaling benefit IMHO there is no contest. I mean in a few weeks IF you trade carefully and with very disciplined money management, and let's say you go for the 20k option, you could be sitting with a 120k/180k account with weekly payouts and of course once you get to that level your 5% DD allowance is far bigger. If one manages 5% a week from the start, even at only 50% of the profits, that's not a bad payout every week!...
But what people do not grasp, which is what the spreadsheets demonstrate is you will have to trade same size lots (sometimes even smaller) in the prop account vs your personal account. Let's say your risk of ruin is 20 trades, you have 1000 in a personal account and you have taken the same 1000 and paid a fee to a "scaling" prop firm for 1000 in DD. If your risk of ruin is 20 trades, that is $50 per trade IN BOTH ACCOUNTS. You cannot trade larger lots in the prop account simply because the balance/equity is larger, as you only have 5% of it to play with. You will make the same profit in both accounts, you don't give back 50% of your profits in the personal account.
I understand everyone is different, psychology is different, styles are different ,etc. However, from a pure math perspective, the challenge/eval model provides far more potential for the same risk in $$$. When I say far more, I mean it is not even close.
  • #3,715
  • Sep 10, 2021 9:09am Sep 10, 2021 9:09am
nice short trade by us30
  • #3,716
  • Sep 10, 2021 9:29am Sep 10, 2021 9:29am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} But what people do not grasp, which is what the spreadsheets demonstrate is you will have to trade same size lots (sometimes even smaller) in the prop account vs your personal account. Let's say your risk of ruin is 20 trades, you have 1000 in a personal account and you have taken the same 1000 and paid a fee to a "scaling" prop firm for 1000 in DD. If your risk of ruin is 20 trades, that is $50 per trade IN BOTH ACCOUNTS. You cannot trade larger lots in the prop account simply because the balance/equity is larger, as you only have 5% of...
Just to expand on this, for $949 (200K eval @ MFF), you get 24K in DD. If we use the same risk of ruin of 20 trades, you are able to risk $600 per trade vs $50. Of course, assuming a winning strategy, you will earn 12 times more for the same $$$ invested. I cannot break it down any simpler than this.
  • #3,717
  • Sep 10, 2021 9:31am Sep 10, 2021 9:31am
Quoting Elyes
nice short trade by us30
Yes, 750+ points down from the top I called last week at 35500. Go Biden!!!! lol
  • #3,718
  • Sep 10, 2021 10:04am Sep 10, 2021 10:04am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, 750+ points down from the top I called last week at 35500. Go Biden!!!! lol

Got 150 on the short, its friday so now going to go eat everything in the kitchen and watch formula 1 qualifying
  • #3,719
  • Sep 10, 2021 10:19am Sep 10, 2021 10:19am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Got 150 on the short, its friday so now going to go eat everything in the kitchen and watch formula 1 qualifying
Yes, I am done for the week as well. Just submitted my profit split request to MFF.
  • #3,720
  • Sep 10, 2021 10:30am Sep 10, 2021 10:30am
Quoting Koop
{quote} One who considers both sides of the equation can't be blinded..... You on the other hand are only looking at loss potential and drawdown instead of looking at the risk involved while still considering the potential rewards. You're also assuming that a trader will lose 3 challenges before passing one. What if they don't? Why aren't you comparing that $1200 in a personal account to 3 passed challenges amounting to $300,000?..... Do you still have a case in that comparison? Also, Trading only 0.25% per trade in a 100k or 300k FTMO blows trading...
I was talking about traders on average, obviously there will be outliers - I am surprised I have to really point this out. No sure why you are failing to grasp these basic numbers. I've already stated I think FTMO is worth it. If you are superstar trader then yes than FTMO offers 10-12 times or so your investment, but if like most you fail a few times then after taking into account profit share and costs (and even your time/stress to pass challenges) its more like 6-8 times. The main point is to think in terms of drawdown and risk. Not life changing to me, but certainly a good deal.
Your worst drawdown is yet to come
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