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The brutal truth of day trading

  • #2,881
  • Aug 6, 2021 4:04am Aug 6, 2021 4:04am
Quoting swd
{quote} what do you think? The brokers themselves had to be STP/ECN. But t is the LP's behind that take the order, none of this B-book stuff. Been ran out of town on just about all of them.
Couldn't you just run it on IC Markets for example? The strategy wouldn't work on B-book brokers?
  • #2,882
  • Aug 6, 2021 4:07am Aug 6, 2021 4:07am
Quoting swd
{quote} what do you think? The brokers themselves had to be STP/ECN. But t is the LP's behind that take the order, none of this B-book stuff. Been ran out of town on just about all of them.
MT4 or MT5? as i understand MT5 now use multiple LP's and even match n brokers in pool (not going to LPs). How many LP there are?

maybe can be used with larger SL/TP.. they cant do 20 pips slippage or can?

maybe not possible to scale to millions.. maybe all this trading maximum is possible to earn some 100k to 200k earnings? then nobody cares and dont play dirty tricks?
  • #2,883
  • Aug 6, 2021 4:10am Aug 6, 2021 4:10am
Quoting joyny
{quote} MT4 or MT5? as i understand MT5 now use multiple LP's and even match n brokers in pool (not going to LPs). How many LP there are? maybe can be used with larger SL/TP.. they cant do 20 pips slippage or can? maybe not possible to scale to millions.. maybe all this trading maximum is possible to earn some 100k to 200k earnings? then nobody cares and dont play dirty tricks?
FIXAPI in LD4. Bypasses MT4 bridge
  • #2,884
  • Aug 6, 2021 4:11am Aug 6, 2021 4:11am
Quoting swd
{quote} what do you think? The brokers themselves had to be STP/ECN. But t is the LP's behind that take the order, none of this B-book stuff. Been ran out of town on just about all of them. This was some time ago, so I'm not crying. Moved on since then.
I understand you've moved on since. I'm trying to think of potential pitfalls for myself. I've put together a winning strategy and I've been planning ahead about various ways the brokers will try to F me out of my hard work. I've built counter measures in the strategy for the pitfalls I could think of. I'm sure there are other things I haven't thought of yet. At this point, I guess they could just not fill the pending order at all but that would be pretty obvious. Any advice from your experience?
  • #2,885
  • Edited 5:17am Aug 6, 2021 4:16am | Edited 5:17am
Quoting joyny
{quote} MT4 or MT5? as i understand MT5 now use multiple LP's and even match n brokers in pool (not going to LPs). How many LP there are? maybe can be used with larger SL/TP.. they cant do 20 pips slippage or can? maybe not possible to scale to millions.. maybe all this trading maximum is possible to earn some 100k to 200k earnings? then nobody cares and dont play dirty tricks?
Oh you would not believe the slippage I've experienced on MT5 even with IC Markets for example. On MT4 on the other hand, I think it would be too obvious since there are too many traders using MT4. But on MT5, I had to stop testing live because I would CLEARLY see the floating profit on the equity at $110 for example, and when I close it, it's down to $90 something. This is as it is closing, at that instance, I see the account equity up by $110, then poof gone like magic, down to $90 something at the instant it closes. It is very strange to see the account equity suddenly vanish in an instant. It has become almost funny now and unfortunately I don't even use my MT5 EA on a live account anymore because of this. I've only ever noticed this behavior on MT5 live account, never on MT5 demo. But again things go just fine on MT4 live account. Keep MT4 alive, I'm not switching to MT5 which I think gives the brokers ability to automatically F you. I'm sure MT5 works fine for many strategies but not all.
  • #2,886
  • Aug 6, 2021 4:26am Aug 6, 2021 4:26am
i don't use either tp or sl levels when scalping. for me they are already built into my eyes.
lol.
  • #2,887
  • Aug 6, 2021 4:35am Aug 6, 2021 4:35am
I think profitable trading requires unique solutions.
because the strategies and approaches used by everyone will not work.
this is just my experience.
  • #2,888
  • Aug 6, 2021 4:38am Aug 6, 2021 4:38am
Quoting ohyeah
{quote} Oh you would not believe the slippage on MT5 even with IC Markets for example. On MT4 on the other hand, it would be too obvious since there are too many users using MT4 (Long Live MT4!!). But on MT5, I had to stop testing live because I would CLEARLY see the floating profit at $110 for example, and when I close it, it's down to $90 something. This is as it is closing, at that instance, I see the account equity up by $110!! Then poof gone like magic, down to $90 something. I've only ever noticed this scam behavior on MT5 with IC Markets...
think Peperstone, Oanda, Admirals, IC Markets, Roboforex, Darwinex, Naga and some more are legit brokers and they don't scam. they are interested to have good traders who constantly trade and do not blow out accounts - they earn commissions. it is very expensive advertising to get new clients.

Admirals recently moved away from private persons in their FCA regulations (offers now offshores for them). only legal persons now can trade FCA with them. they are not interested in small players anymore for FCA. focus on companies and large capital. if you have large capital then trade as a company - there are tax benefits of that. at least in my country. this was the reason I closed the main account (Admirals). will re-open as legal person when be ready.

when I see what did Darwinex... can't imagine they scam.. they love so much good traders and develop tools for them.

but ok this is only my opinion. I might be wrong.
  • #2,889
  • Aug 6, 2021 4:39am Aug 6, 2021 4:39am
Quoting joyny
{quote} not opinion. fact backed up with hundreds (maybe thousands) optimizations/backtests i did for more than 100 EAs I have made.. {image} each folder for an EA - can contain several subfolders with EA versions. Each that EA optimized/backtested for majors, indexes and some most popular stocks. So have huge ammount of evidence that patterns "might stop working" and then "re-work" again. It is called fluctuation. but manual trader who trades an pattern 3 months might think that found "edge"... but when you see longterm picture for history you...
You are 100% right. Its main reason why people lose. Not money managment. I had tradet many strategys that constantly make profit and then is one day when all changes then constantly get only loses
  • #2,890
  • Aug 6, 2021 4:43am Aug 6, 2021 4:43am
i also have a pair of EAs that produce profits in series and then come up with a losing deal and blow up the account.
  • #2,891
  • Aug 6, 2021 4:48am Aug 6, 2021 4:48am
Quoting slb
congestion zones value area choppy market whatever the name you like to call it are a key concept in this business post https://youtu.be/y-0k8PaFYPM cheers
This person does not look rich. He looks like he has to tell the bullshit 5 days a week for a salary

Quoting tiborf71
i also have a pair of EAs that produce profits in series and then come up with a losing deal and blow up the account.
Be honest. Where did you get these EAs? On forum? If you created them yourself how much time did you spend for the algo? Let me guess your EA even don't have dynamic lot size...?
Observer effect
  • #2,892
  • Aug 6, 2021 5:00am Aug 6, 2021 5:00am
the problem with EA in general is that TP, SL levels that use the level are almost impossible to create a profitable EA.
if no TP, SL level is specified me the account will explode at any time.
this is the problem.
  • #2,893
  • Aug 6, 2021 5:20am Aug 6, 2021 5:20am
Quoting joyny
{quote} think Peperstone, Oanda, Admirals, IC Markets, Roboforex, Darwinex, Naga and some more are legit brokers and they don't scam. they are interested to have good traders who constantly trade and do not blow out accounts - they earn commissions. it is very expensive advertising to get new clients. Admirals recently moved away from private persons in their FCA regulations (offers now offshores for them). only legal persons now can trade FCA with them. they are not interested in small players anymore for FCA. focus on companies and large capital....
Definitely the best MT4 broker is IC Markets, for my strategy. The MT5 on the other hand, it's disappointing to say, I get scammed out of equity while live testing MT5. MT5 works great on demo but MT5 live, I get robbed out of some equity every time. As an added bonus, when MT5 is logged into a live account, it will not even run without disabling "Adaptive Thread Protection" completely, all parts of it, on my anti-virus program. Don't believe me? Install McAfee Endpoint Security yourself (the best antivirus program because of on-access scanning, etc.). Install McAfee Endpoint Security and try to run MT5 logged into a live account haha. As far as my anti-virus program is concern, MT5 is a virus. I'm guessing it gives the broker the ability to automatically vanish some of the equity when you close trades on a live account. Long live the great MT4.
  • #2,894
  • Aug 6, 2021 5:26am Aug 6, 2021 5:26am
Quoting tiborf71
the problem with EA in general is that TP, SL levels that use the level are almost impossible to create a profitable EA. if no TP, SL level is specified me the account will explode at any time. this is the problem.
I know of an EA approach that can benefit with this GRID EA, but is not easy money either.
it requires attention every day.
I used this a long time ago.
  • #2,895
  • Aug 6, 2021 5:48am Aug 6, 2021 5:48am
Quoting tiborf71
{quote} I know of an EA approach that can benefit with this GRID EA, but is not easy money either. it requires attention every day. I used this a long time ago.
My general advice when it comes to strategies is, if a strategy seems "too hard" then scrap it and move on a new strategy. It shouldn't be difficult. If it's too hard then it's not right yet. Trading is actually really easy when it's right. I use a 100% automated system, so I'm speaking from years of experience trying to get EAs to work. In other words, if it's hard then you're not doing it right yet.
  • #2,896
  • Aug 6, 2021 5:50am Aug 6, 2021 5:50am
Quoting ohyeah
{quote} I understand you've moved on since. I'm trying to think of potential pitfalls for myself. I've put together a winning strategy and I've been planning ahead about various ways the brokers will try to F me out of my hard work. I've built counter measures in the strategy for the pitfalls I could think of. I'm sure there are other things I haven't thought of yet. At this point, I guess they could just not fill the pending order at all but that would be pretty obvious. Any advice from your experience?
I don't know. It's a bit like asking a builder for advice about building something without knowing what it is. If you are using the Metatrader stack to execute your trades then you have always got to worry about the Virtual Dealer Plugin. This is a game changer that can be utilised to ruin most strategies that are sensitive to filling, SL, TP and execution timing. So pretty much all strategies. I bypassed that by not going through Metatrader. Not everyone can do that. Anyway, there are seemingly plenty of clever people on this forum that could help you with your strategy I think. You don't need me. But all the best.
  • #2,897
  • Aug 6, 2021 5:59am Aug 6, 2021 5:59am
Quoting swd
{quote} I don't know. It's a bit like asking a builder for advice about building something without knowing what it is. If you are using the Metatrader stack to execute your trades then you have always got to worry about the Virtual Dealer Plugin. This is a game changer that can be utilised to ruin most strategies that are sensitive to filling, SL, TP and execution timing. So pretty much all strategies. I bypassed that by not going through Metatrader. Not everyone can do that. Anyway, there are seemingly plenty of clever people on this forum that...
I understand what you mean. I've failed with past EAs that were sensitive to fills, etc. Even on MT4 IC Markets that is supposed to be great for those types of EAs. The counter measures to reduce chances were to make it as simple as possible with no TP, no SL, pending orders only, running positive equity. They can still mess with it by slipping me when I use a utility EA to close all open trades, or if I use a script to close all open trades myself, but this has never happened on MT4. On MT4 live, I have not been slipped. On MT5 live, I get slipped badly, and they do it shamelessly, and making it too obvious. They probably have the wrong setting on their slip plan. I'm guessing they have a built-in rule to slip all trades by a certain amount. I assume MT5 gives the broker this ability to specify how much to slip. This has never happened to me on MT4 live, only MT5 live.
  • #2,898
  • Aug 6, 2021 6:06am Aug 6, 2021 6:06am
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} That's why scalping for small pips is open to LPs/brokers manipulation that we already witness in so many forms. The sl/tp has to be large enough that they can't do anything about it. This is the only way to allow for scaling up. Provided the brokers do not mess around with execution.
This is one of the brutal truths for sure. Execution environment. Swing trading, leg trading, short term or whatever people call it is certainly one way to defeat some aspects of that.
  • #2,899
  • Aug 6, 2021 6:27am Aug 6, 2021 6:27am
Quoting gepards
{quote} Do you see that from futures data pending orders count/volume?
Hi gepards

Its best to pick it up on the footprint chart, the DOM can also help for order balance.

Here is what stop loss clusters look like via data. This was a Gold day low that ryuryu and myself traded 10 minutes ago.
Notice the numbers in the box show us exhaustion occurring in the Bids & Asks as the market just ran the Stop Loss clusters.

Imbalance is the Yellow or white numbers.
Yes - BUY
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Gold Friday 6th B.png Size: 316 KB
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #2,900
  • Aug 6, 2021 6:32am Aug 6, 2021 6:32am
Quoting swd
{quote} This is one of the brutal truths for sure. Execution environment. Swing trading, leg trading, short term or whatever people call it is certainly one way to defeat some aspects of that.
Exactly! For example yesterday morning mt5 was not working on ICM. Even mobile. What If I had positions opened? Disaster!
Everything is against us: spread, swap, slippage, connection problems, fat fingers, bad decisions, no volume data (haha). So if we can have some advantage then it is very good! For me 2 advantages I can have: volume data from futures and algo trading.
Observer effect
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