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  • #1,201
  • May 21, 2021 9:21am May 21, 2021 9:21am
Quoting MaryAnne
{quote} Quick question. Were you in propex before?
yes
  • #1,202
  • May 21, 2021 9:23am May 21, 2021 9:23am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, I guess these models are just not for me. I much prefer the 30 day challenge, pass and have 10-12% DD. Just as you state why would anyone think they can get funding the same day, my thought is why would I pay a fee that I can just drop in a personal account and keep 100%. The scale up at 20% is actually inferior to the %5ers, CTI, etc who double at 10-12.5%. I really thought they would try to crush the competition here.

From what I can see, all the restrictions at 5ers and CTI will force failure. Their scale up plans in my eyes are built around the fact you will never reach them because they strangle the living F out of you until you choke and die.

I prefer evaluations too and wont be taking the direct funding route, but I can see why there is a lot of love for the MFF program, it basically is an opportunity at fast money and most people aren't looking into the future 5 months from now. Actually to me people who would gamble the evaluation might have a chance of getting paid in the direct where as evaluation they will get ruined fast.
  • #1,203
  • May 21, 2021 9:33am May 21, 2021 9:33am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} yes
I was in their boot camp but rejected their offer cos it sucks. The one here is very different (much worse) than advertised. I asked the guys in the Australian office who were in the boot camp and they were shocked at the rules and offer here. Apparently it is much better offer and hours for them over there?

They also advised me not to take it. Said it was exploitation and slavery

ps: the other guys I know from propex are all out. back to admin or civil defence jobs after 1 yr.
  • #1,204
  • May 21, 2021 9:44am May 21, 2021 9:44am
Quoting MaryAnne
{quote} I was in their boot camp but rejected their offer cos it sucks. The one here is very different (much worse) than advertised. I asked the guys in the Australian office who were in the boot camp and they were shocked at the rules and offer here. Apparently it is much better offer and hours for them over there? They also advised me not to take it. Said it was exploitation and slavery ps: the other guys I know from propex are all out. back to admin or civil defence jobs after 1 yr.

I was in the australian one long ago. Most people I know who have worked at propex only have good things to say, but its a cultural thing. I suspect that people who think its slavery wanted some sort of salary whilst on sim. But thats not how prop used to work. It was bloody, cut throat and only the best survived. I got tired of the lifestyle fluctuation so I left, trading 10 yr's is boring as batshit too. After I left they did open up to more markets but I'd say talent wise its still the best non algo firm out there.
  • #1,205
  • May 21, 2021 9:48am May 21, 2021 9:48am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I was in the australian one long ago. Most people I know who have worked at propex only have good things to say, but its a cultural thing. I suspect that people who think its slavery wanted some sort of salary whilst on sim. But thats not how prop used to work. It was bloody, cut throat and only the best survived. I got tired of the lifestyle fluctuation so I left, trading 10 yr's is boring as batshit too. After I left they did open up to more markets but I'd say talent wise its still the best non algo firm out there.
The terms for AU office and SG office are very different. And work hours too... here you are expected to stay overnight (a lot of the guys dont bathe or go home on weekdays btw when I came for interview I same some ironing clothes). There is also the monthly desk fees, and the profit cut being much lesser than advertised. Understand it is not the same in AU.

btw we were only allowed to do spread strategy here (no SL allowed). so when you were long ZN you have to be short XT and vice versa that kind of thing. and yes... max contract was 1.
  • #1,206
  • May 21, 2021 10:11am May 21, 2021 10:11am
Quoting MaryAnne
{quote} The terms for AU office and SG office are very different. And work hours too... here you are expected to stay overnight (a lot of the guys dont bathe or go home on weekdays btw when I came for interview I same some ironing clothes). There is also the monthly desk fees, and the profit cut being much lesser than advertised. Understand it is not the same in AU. btw we were only allowed to do spread strategy here (no SL allowed). so when you were long ZN you have to be short XT and vice versa that kind of thing. and yes... max contract was 1....
Australia was most busy overnight as it was a treasuries desk mostly. But you only really traded the session. I would argue the fresher traders were a bit gross and over dedicated but most people appeared nicely. I think that it could just be singapore although I have heard that that desk was also wildly successful.
  • #1,207
  • May 21, 2021 10:19am May 21, 2021 10:19am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Australia was most busy overnight as it was a treasuries desk mostly. But you only really traded the session. I would argue the fresher traders were a bit gross and over dedicated but most people appeared nicely. I think that it could just be singapore although I have heard that that desk was also wildly successful.
We had no choice. It was a requirement here actually you stay overnight. I told my parents all the conditions (incl I would not be paid for staying there whole day for all weekdays) and they also advised me not to take it. And it is all just to trade one contract via spread strategy... It is really inconvenient for women since we have that 'monthly downtime' and I finally understood why there was 0 lady trader there. I was in their boot camp years ago tho but heard from my intake (who took the offer) the very successful ones who managed to save up go solo fast.

ps:

the screens provided (covered in the monthly desk fee) were very small too. Split into 3 or 4 but ea smaller than my netbook screen... And who knows? Maybe they increased the payout else I just can't see how anyone could trade just 1 contract spread and pay those monthly fees. I found it dishonest the payout was actually less than half of advertised btw if I had known I would not have wasted my time with the boot camp...
  • #1,208
  • May 21, 2021 10:24am May 21, 2021 10:24am
Quoting MaryAnne
{quote} We had no choice. It was a requirement here actually you stay overnight. I told my parents all the conditions (incl I would not be paid for staying there whole day for all weekdays) and they also advised me not to take it. And it is all just to trade one contract via spread strategy... It is really inconvenient for women since we have that 'monthly downtime' and I finally understood why there was 0 lady trader there. I was in their boot camp years ago tho but heard from my intake (who took the offer) the very successful ones who managed...

Sounds like the singapore office was gross... I dont think i will ever go back to that type of prop but the knowledge and skill was super. And at the time propex did great training, but i think the trainer has since moved on.
  • #1,209
  • May 21, 2021 10:33am May 21, 2021 10:33am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Sounds like the Singapore office was gross... I dont think i will ever go back to that type of prop but the knowledge and skill was super. And at the time propex did great training, but i think the trainer has since moved on.
My Propex trainer was a very nice and patient Aussie guy by the name of Adam Rochaix. And yes I was very surprised too to find out the AU office had very different (and better) conditions for trading. That's when I realized different countries run things differently tho it is supposedly same company. And yes learning CQG & Xtrader were prob the best part of it heh

ps: Thanks for the discussion. Good to have another Aussie trader fr there to compare with
  • #1,210
  • May 21, 2021 10:49am May 21, 2021 10:49am
Quoting nikosk0
{quote} small and a lot of scalps for 10-20 pips is the way for me. you may not always get the 10% but you can never fail never. you could always get a free retry and if at the end of the month you didnt meet the target, just risk all the profits you made during the month in 1-2-3 trades i find this the safest way to deal with challenges
This one is 9.5 pips profit.

Risk is approximately 8 pips.

But that does not matter.

Because these are confirmed entries which can not go wrong.
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Click to Enlarge Name: FTMO MetaTrader 4.png Size: 248 KB
Intraday only.
  • #1,211
  • May 22, 2021 3:51am May 22, 2021 3:51am
Quoting Takisd
I don't see why people think that anyone would give them funding the same day that would be a risk to the company. It would be like propex saying "nah guys don't go through 6 months of sim training, heres a 20 contract cap.. enjoy".
my view also Takisd

if a "fund" provider claims to be "investing" in traders with next to no track record then we have to ask why would they, it is a dumb risk

so its highly likely such firms are not investing in the trader, the trader is on demo....I dont see any other way around it, investors simply do not invest in traders with next to no track record
  • #1,212
  • May 22, 2021 6:58am May 22, 2021 6:58am
Quoting Le.Metier
{quote} my view also Takisd if a "fund" provider claims to be "investing" in traders with next to no track record then we have to ask why would they, it is a dumb risk so its highly likely such firms are not investing in the trader, the trader is on demo....I dont see any other way around it, investors simply do not invest in traders with next to no track record

If risk = drawdown then you start with 0 risk as the firm. There is definitely a way to make it work sending trades to the market but definitely not a way if you are giving more drawdown than the fee to enter.
  • #1,213
  • May 22, 2021 7:32am May 22, 2021 7:32am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} If risk = drawdown then you start with 0 risk as the firm. There is definitely a way to make it work sending trades to the market but definitely not a way if you are giving more drawdown than the fee to enter.
I would need to see the funders program, but in the case of 5ers it will be a problem when the account after evaluation is a real account and DD is > evaluation fee and profit split from the evaluation....on demo, no such problem

evaluation: 275 fee + 187 share
acct 1: max DD 1000

In this example it would be high risk to invest real money in a trader with virtually no track record and given ~80% of people (industry wide) who pass evaluations, apparently do not make it past the first 3mths; and I am not claiming 5ers accounts arent live, they may very well be, I just dont know how they make the maths work
  • #1,214
  • May 22, 2021 8:09am May 22, 2021 8:09am
Guys, Traders Prop have added another broker to their challenge accounts. It's "JustForex". Have no idea what the spreads are like. I've downloaded a demo account but have to wait until Monday.
  • #1,215
  • May 22, 2021 8:21am May 22, 2021 8:21am
Quoting Mtinifx
Guys, Traders Prop have added another broker to their challenge accounts. It's "JustForex". Have no idea what the spreads are like. I've downloaded a demo account but have to wait until Monday.
Do they offer Practice account to have a feel ?
Intraday only.
  • #1,216
  • May 22, 2021 8:50am May 22, 2021 8:50am
Quoting navk
{quote} Do they offer Practice account to have a feel ?
You mean Traders Prop? No they don't. One has to download the broker's demo. I presume they give you the ECN account to trade for the challenge. That is important to confirm before paying out any money!

It will be interesting to see if eventually someone gets a payout proof. Their 50k aggresive account for $449 is very attractive I have to say. $7k daily dd limit is great. Especially for the long term because people forget that they are faced with that restriction every single day that they are in the game. I suppose that is where the 5'ers are better in a way if you can constantly build your daily DD limit.
Attached Image
  • #1,217
  • May 22, 2021 9:24am May 22, 2021 9:24am
Quoting Mtinifx
Guys, Traders Prop have added another broker to their challenge accounts. It's "JustForex". Have no idea what the spreads are like. I've downloaded a demo account but have to wait until Monday.
MFF seem to be having credit card payment method and not offering bank transfer method for fees.
Intraday only.
  • #1,218
  • May 22, 2021 9:44am May 22, 2021 9:44am
Quoting Le.Metier
{quote} I would need to see the funders program, but in the case of 5ers it will be a problem when the account after evaluation is a real account and DD is > evaluation fee and profit split from the evaluation....on demo, no such problem evaluation: 275 fee + 187 share acct 1: max DD 1000 In this example it would be high risk to invest real money in a trader with virtually no track record and given ~80% of people (industry wide) who pass evaluations, apparently do not make it past the first 3mths; and I am not claiming 5ers accounts arent live,...
I believe the weekly payout overall fixes the problems itself.

My idea of the MFF model is that by paying weekly, more profit splits occur and their overall risk is 0->minimal. So i think its profitable. I don't know what their execution model is, perhaps they are piggy backing good trades or something as well. When you have unused margin you can do many things. The people who cant do many things are the people who think b-book is a solution to the worlds problems.
  • #1,219
  • May 22, 2021 9:50am May 22, 2021 9:50am
Quoting Le.Metier
{quote} I would need to see the funders program, but in the case of 5ers it will be a problem when the account after evaluation is a real account and DD is > evaluation fee and profit split from the evaluation....on demo, no such problem evaluation: 275 fee + 187 share acct 1: max DD 1000 In this example it would be high risk to invest real money in a trader with virtually no track record and given ~80% of people (industry wide) who pass evaluations, apparently do not make it past the first 3mths; and I am not claiming 5ers accounts arent live,...
FWIW
the 5ers acct seem to be real, feel to be real, acts as real (use the mt5).
bcos a lot tighter rules, assume that discourage most gambling attempts, the period is a longer min days trading period too.
since the leverage limits very large lot type all or nothing trading, and every position have to have a SL attached, those probably also serve toward screening out the traders more serious about responsible money handling.
plus for the initial stage (lvl1) which generally equals the challenge+verification sort of, the firm is fully covered by the fees for the potential max dd of 4%.
if i am not mistaken any single pair/position has a further restriction of 1.5% SL for most.

would say when moving to lvl2 the firm likely takes some leap of faith for the trader, as the move up involve a 4x equity increase what the initial fee plus lvl1's half profit cut wont cover fully, ( vs the later doubles, where the 50% profit cut of the firm fully covers the next equity level).
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #1,220
  • May 22, 2021 9:59am May 22, 2021 9:59am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, I guess these models are just not for me. I much prefer the 30 day challenge, pass and have 10-12% DD. Just as you state why would anyone think they can get funding the same day, my thought is why would I pay a fee that I can just drop in a personal account and keep 100%. The scale up at 20% is actually inferior to the %5ers, CTI, etc who double at 10-12.5%. I really thought they would try to crush the competition here.
Man on a second look, I agree with Takisd, in comparison to 5ers at least.
(The new site is up by the way, with all the details).

The direct funding thing is probably not for me either, but if I were to pick any one it would be MFF. However, it only makes sense if you're aiming for at least the $20,000 account. Anything below is just cheating yourself.
Okay, the $10,000 emphatic account with 10% max DD and 1:100 lev. Is also not bad

For the conventional, compared to 5ers and CTI
you get -

1:50 lev
5% max DD (which eliminates the risk of Funding on their part)
Scale up every time you hit 10%
Weekly payouts

This is basically like what Profit-Farmer was asking of FTMO, paying up the 10% max DD yourself and having access to trade a $50,000 account with 1:100 leverage.

The only thing that really sets it apart from 5ers is the higher leverage. Considerably more More margin in your hands.
50/50 split is not enticing though.

Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} FWIW the 5ers acct seem to be real, feel to be real, acts as real (use the mt5). bcos a lot tighter rules, assume that discourage most gambling attempts, the period is a longer min days trading period too. since the leverage limits very large lot type all or nothing trading, and every position have to have a SL attached, those probably also serve toward screening out the traders more serious about responsible money handling. plus for the initial stage (lvl1) which generally equals the challenge+verification sort of, the firm is fully covered...
Ah, there's the man I was looking for.
https://myforexfunds.com/accounts/accelerated-program/
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