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  • #741
  • Edited 4:06pm Apr 29, 2021 1:22pm | Edited 4:06pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Except for the fact I can put their fee in a personal account and have more $$$ by stage 3 than their "scaling" plan and not have to give up 50%. FTMO----10,000 DD for $640 5%ers--- $800 DD for $875 hmmmm..... can't decide
AND you get the fee back at FTMO , not with 5er ...come on, think harder
  • #742
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:24pm Apr 29, 2021 1:24pm
Quoting Koop
{quote} Wrong. Step 3 - Max possible loss allowed - FTMO - $6000 5ers - $5400 Max possible loss allowed in a Day - FTMO - $500. Two totally different things. To think about it, apparently the only ones who actually care about the trader protecting the profits they've made so far are the ones who impose daily loss limits. Imagine letting trader make you money, but also giving them a leeway to blow away all the profits of the previous day in a single day. No caps, no limits.
Wrong.


Step 3:
New trading day. The maximum possible loss allowed in both cases:
- FTMO: $750 (relative to prior day balance)
- The5ers: $5,400 (fix at stop out level of $9,600)
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  • #743
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:26pm Apr 29, 2021 1:26pm
Quoting PaulMF
{quote} Wrong. Step 3: New trading day. The maximum possible loss allowed in both cases: - FTMO: $750 (relative to prior day balance) - The5ers: $5,400 (fix at stop out level of $9,600)
so you would prefer to lose $5400 over $740?
on a postive roll...
  • #744
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:30pm Apr 29, 2021 1:30pm
FTMO doesn t have a relative DD. if ur max daily loss is for instance 5k and u start the day making 10 k profits, then all of a sudden u take a loss of 11k, u won t breach the max daily loss! the daily DD isn t relative. as long as u eat the profits made and not into the initaila account balance that day started with. if the DD was relative would ve been a nasty challenge indeed. and in my humble opinion, if 12 % a year sounds reasonable for some, i suggest another job, as it s not worth the pressure, stress that comes with trading. some claims are absolutly ridiculous and i agree, but if i m not even willing to risk 1% per trade or heck, 0.5% cos let s say i m more conservative, then trading wouldn t be for me. even with 0.5% per trade 10% or even better a month is very achievable if the market condtions are right or u have a market aproach that can be used in both trending and ranging conditions. atleast that s my view anyways
  • #745
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:31pm Apr 29, 2021 1:31pm
Quoting Rmg
{quote} There is no target once you get funded. You can make as you wish.
There is no target on both after first stages. In 5ers you are funded since the first day. An there is no target since you get 6% or 12% (depending on program), instead on FTMO you have to make 15% and 20 trading days to get funded and disable the target rule.
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  • #746
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:32pm Apr 29, 2021 1:32pm
Quoting Rmg
{quote} so you would prefer to lose $5400 over $740?
To have the possibility... Of course!
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  • #747
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:33pm Apr 29, 2021 1:33pm
Quoting 1odi
FTMO doesn t have a relative DD. if ur max daily loss is for instance 5k and u start the day making 10 k profits, then all of a sudden u take a loss of 11k, u won t breach the max daily loss! the daily DD isn t relative. as long as u eat the profits made and not into the initaila account balance that day started with. if the DD was relative would ve been a nasty challenge indeed. and in my humble opinion, if 12 % a year sounds reasonable for some, i suggest another job, as it s not worth the pressure, stress that comes with trading. some claims...
FTMO's daily drawdown is relative to previous end of day balance.
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  • #748
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:42pm Apr 29, 2021 1:42pm
Majority of (dozens !)replies are to paul now and are just repetitive reactions to this evil genius.... ftmo thread again.... Im going to have to ignore everyone that just clone him by their replies ... I will probably die alone after just having "ignore" tabs all over my computer screen, just because of that most powerful and cruel sorcerer !
If I don't mention SL and/or TP = longer-term setup possibly in the works!
  • #749
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:44pm Apr 29, 2021 1:44pm
Quoting mtako
Majority of (dozens !)replies are to paul now and are just repetitive reactions to this evil genius.... ftmo thread again.... Im going to have to ignore everyone that just clone him by their replies ... I will probably die alone after just having "ignore" tabs all over my computer screen, just because of that most powerful and cruel sorcerer !
Knew it and still doing outta boredom lol. I stop ignoring him, he needs help. thats all.
on a postive roll...
  • #750
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:50pm Apr 29, 2021 1:50pm
Quoting PaulMF
{quote} FTMO's daily drawdown is relative to previous end of day balance.
if ur willing to go into session change with a possibility of risking 5% DD knowing that the ssome of the spreads go crazy, gaps can happen etc...then u shouldn t be trading in the first place with a propfirm. on ur own account ofc u can do that, but just how much losing in 1 single day is enough? 5% is little?!?! it s no wonder so many fail the challenges or funded accounts or even in their personal trading accounts for that matter. a professional manages risk first, and then makes profits. u might have great coding skills, but no indicator is gonna help u become consistent and profitable, not even those leading and non lagging such as volume. cheers
edit? how is 4% or 5% DD not enough but 12% a year is a great return? ...............
  • #751
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:52pm Apr 29, 2021 1:52pm
I'm respectfully replying to everyone who quotes me. This is a forum... I'm not an evil genius for that.

By the way, I have asked for two real prop-firms, Optiver and Hudson River, and the thread has been flooded by FTMO's propaganda.
Always ready to help
  • #752
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:57pm Apr 29, 2021 1:57pm
Quoting 1odi
{quote} if ur willing to go into session change with a possibility of risking 5% DD knowing that the ssome of the spreads go crazy, gaps can happen etc...then u shouldn t be trading in the first place with a propfirm. on ur own account ofc u can do that, but just how much losing in 1 single day is enough? 5% is little?!?! it s no wonder so many fail the challenges or funded accounts or even in their personal trading accounts for that matter. a professional manages risk first, and then makes profits. u might have great coding skills, but no indicator...
I agree with you that 5% in a day is too much. I never said the opposite. Just saying that is better a 4% stop out level restriction than a 5% daily relative drawdown restriction for the trader.

Coding skills are not only valid for indicators. Any strategy can be coded. Whatever you use as trading logic can be automated.
Always ready to help
  • #753
  • Apr 29, 2021 2:02pm Apr 29, 2021 2:02pm
Quoting PaulMF
{quote} I agree with you that 5% in a day is too much. I never said the opposite. Just saying that is better a 4% stop out level restriction than a 5% daily relative drawdown restriction for the trader. Coding skills are not only valid for indicators. Any strategy can be coded. Whatever you use as trading logic can be automated.
i highly doubt that, u can t automate discretion and chrt reading skills imho ofc. and again, the DD isn t relative, and the Day is ending after 24hrs, right? now why the profits u made yesterday should count on to the next day regarding the max daily DD? anyways, i m not just trying to be a contrarian, but a lot of the things said here just don t make sence. anyways, i m done _bickering_ lol, at the end of the day results matter, talk is cheap. cheers
  • #754
  • Apr 29, 2021 2:14pm Apr 29, 2021 2:14pm
Quoting PaulMF
I'm respectfully replying to everyone who quotes me. This is a forum... I'm not an evil genius for that. By the way, I have asked for two real prop-firms, Optiver and Hudson River, and the thread has been flooded by FTMO's propaganda.
Correct me if I'm wrong....but are these jobs where I must go into an office location? If so, we are now comparing two completely different things here.
  • #755
  • Apr 29, 2021 2:39pm Apr 29, 2021 2:39pm
Quoting 1odi
{quote} i highly doubt that, u can t automate discretion and chrt reading skills imho ofc. and again, the DD isn t relative, and the Day is ending after 24hrs, right? now why the profits u made yesterday should count on to the next day regarding the max daily DD? anyways, i m not just trying to be a contrarian, but a lot of the things said here just don t make sence. anyways, i m done _bickering_ lol, at the end of the day results matter, talk is cheap. cheers
Yes, that can also be coded.
Always ready to help
  • #756
  • Apr 29, 2021 2:40pm Apr 29, 2021 2:40pm
Quoting PaulMF
{quote} Yes, that can also be coded.
then u are a pioneer and i salute u for that ! cheers
edit> wonder if u can code sarcasm 2
  • #757
  • Apr 29, 2021 2:41pm Apr 29, 2021 2:41pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Correct me if I'm wrong....but are these jobs where I must go into an office location? If so, we are now comparing two completely different things here.
And very good salaries and bonus.

Completely different worlds. Real prop firms.
Always ready to help
  • #758
  • Apr 29, 2021 2:45pm Apr 29, 2021 2:45pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Correct me if I'm wrong....but are these jobs where I must go into an office location? If so, we are now comparing two completely different things here.
Lol https://www.optiver.com/insights/blo...re-at-optiver/

No Paul, no one has tried Optiver. No one is looking to make their lives more difficult

If you haven't noticed, the reason why these pseudo prop firms are thriving online is because they have greatly improved accessibility to certain opportunities.
You may not like it right now, but I assure you that you would equally jump at these pay to play models if you ever become profitable at trading.
  • #759
  • Apr 29, 2021 4:41pm Apr 29, 2021 4:41pm
The big problem is that those pseudo prop firms are the big trap for many with limited trading experience (or even with many years of fantasy trading) who may think that these prop firms are a real opportunity of making money when in fact makes them lose money because they didn't understand how difficult is to meet their trading objectives and rules. Completely designed to make the trader fail.

It is inflammatory to read that these firms make our lifes easier, and it is also to read that real prop firms that pay 6 figures salaries plus bonus are there to complicate our lifes.
Always ready to help
  • #760
  • Edited Apr 30, 2021 5:01am Apr 29, 2021 5:41pm | Edited Apr 30, 2021 5:01am
Quoting PaulMF
The big problem is that those pseudo prop firms are the big trap for many with limited trading experience (or even with many years of fantasy trading) who may think that these prop firms are a real opportunity of making money when in fact makes them lose money because they didn't understand how difficult is to meet their trading objectives and rules. Completely designed to make the trader fail. It is inflammatory to read that these firms make our lifes easier, and it is also to read that real prop firms that pay 6 figures salaries plus bonus are...
I think both worlds have their place. I wouldn't bash any of them, it's pointless as they are different beasts.

Regarding saving people from being scammed, I think each person is capable of defending themselves and making their own judgment without a guide, nobody needs any saviour in these forums. We all know the shady businesses are around the corner and we must be careful, everybody knows that. That's not the point.

Real prop firms with big salaries will only take a handful of traders every year and their requirements are very different (you have to relocate, have proper academic background, etc), it's more like a regular job based on performance. If that's what you prefer then go ahead, but no need to bash the other alternatives more suited to people who won't be botherer if they can make a living trading from their home office through new business models like the ones we're discussing in this thread.

Honestly, the trading objectives aren't difficult for retail like us who just need to piggy back price movement. I'm not even close to being a good trader and I made the 5% objective for FTMO's trial over the last 5 days, risking 1% per trade, taking only the best setups and being really picky and selective (want to do this 5 times before the challenge). It's not a walk in the park, but as cliché as it sounds, it REALLY boils down to emotional control, rigorous discipline and being patient as hell, along with a positive expectancy method that you actually trust and know well.

Anyway, enough talk, time to act.
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