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Real or Algo

  • #1,221
  • Mar 13, 2021 9:03pm Mar 13, 2021 9:03pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote}
Hi moodybot, I have nothing more to add on this thread other than this final post.

Hey BW, you're back, , you haven't heard the fat lady singing just yet?
  • #1,222
  • Mar 13, 2021 9:08pm Mar 13, 2021 9:08pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Hi moodybot, I have nothing more to add on this thread other than this final post. Cheers. "Don't be an idiot." unquote CrucialPoint 6 May 2010 "If you continue insist the efficacy of TA and FA, the only person you deny on this planet Earth is, yourself." unquote BWilliam 14 Mar 2021 {image} {image} {image} {image} {image} {image}
Hi BW

Thanks for the guest appearance.
I’ll put your application to leave the thread out to the committee, you’ll be informed of the decision in due course.
Just for now keep posting, there’s a good chap!
  • #1,223
  • Mar 14, 2021 6:47am Mar 14, 2021 6:47am
Quoting RickM
{quote} OR You could just trade the flow of money after a climax and jump on the bankers back and ride them for a short while. {image}
The best way to trade the news events. I agree. Follow the money.

We are all different traders with different tactics & narratives, we learn from that and advance our knowledge.

It matters not to me whether I am trading against a broker, an LP, a bank or even a single algo. I see the footprints and I can make my decisions. Each to their own.

The trading charts are mathematical in nature and at the same time can be artistic at times.
Everyone sees what they percieve to be true, if it makes them consistently profitable, then that's all that matters.

I think ths thread has run it's course, nothing more to add here.

Good Luck to everyone and trade safe.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #1,224
  • Edited 11:46am Mar 14, 2021 10:00am | Edited 11:46am
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GU.png Size: 101 KB

Friday close GU chart 12/03/21

These levels are not from any mathematical formula, pure TA market structure.
As I said before, pick low hanging fruit when it becomes available, specialise in your market.

Edit:
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Can they do this on ALL pairs? As proof, can your group of traders post a single algo level for any pair of your choice for tomorrow trading? Can Shabs post just one single algo level of any pair of his choice on any day he select? I did not select the pair nor did I select the day. TimeTells made the selection. Check my history posts. I have made plenty of algo levels post before the price reach those levels. I won't make anymore than what I have posted. It's your turn to post proof of your ability to call future algo levels. Back up your claims. I shall be waiting for you and Shabs to show proof.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 8677c8daccf01866f4a4a8384d6ca877.png Size: 20 KB
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #1,225
  • Mar 14, 2021 3:26pm Mar 14, 2021 3:26pm
Quoting Shabs19
{image} Friday close GU chart 12/03/21 These levels are not from any mathematical formula, pure TA market structure. As I said before, pick low hanging fruit when it becomes available, specialise in your market. Edit: {quote} {image}
Thanks Shabs

Good workable levels .... 1.38398 Daily order block on my chart now broken.
1.39338 Peak current high to current low / 50% again , yep, I'll go along with that...

Nice although of course you may have derived them from less/more advance TA.....but I do like, and I use.

Cheers.
  • #1,226
  • Mar 14, 2021 4:24pm Mar 14, 2021 4:24pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote} Thanks Shabs Good workable levels .... 1.38398 Daily order block on my chart now broken. 1.39338 Peak current high to current low / 50% again , yep, I'll go along with that... Nice although of course you may have derived them from less/more advance TA.....but I do like, and I use. Cheers.
I am just demonstrating these levels that can be seen in advance from existing data on the basis of TA, not even advanced alien technology
took me me about 2 minutes to see them. No calculators or formulas, no secret discovery, No algo levels in sight.
Markets are real, there are hundreds of thousand contracts daily transactions, money is transferred as in the commodities markets.
With USD pairs always wise to watch the USD index coming close to important levels.
There is manipulation as there has always been, there is collusion between banks & individual rogue traders.
Often long established banks can go under take Barings Bank & Nick Leeson for example. UBS & Kweku Adoboli. People make & lose money.

The Forex is the biggest single market in the world, our charts are not an illusion. If you see patterns or price hitting exact numbers, this is because someone has
programmed these levels into the code for their bank or institution. MT4 might not be the most accurate pricing, but close to the 5th digit as retail can possibly get.

This is my evidence that TA can work. Not much of an FA person, but I do watch out for High & Medium Impact News Events, which often set up levels for future weeks.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #1,227
  • Mar 14, 2021 4:48pm Mar 14, 2021 4:48pm
On any pair there is an absolute top and bottom price printed (tho we might have to go back a decade to find some).

Otherwise the market, that I observe, will go back to where it HAS BEEN BEFORE. (And precisely in many occurances).

And I don't care why it does that, I guess, outside of common curiosity.


I always have a target both above and below current price.

And my only trade decision is based on will price go up to a target, or down. And which has to be resolved (with confirmation, for me) before any trade is placed.


(As GU is a theme, here are some simple 1hr swings, from the past, and into the week day/ahead)

Are they hard-coded algo targets, maths targets, TA targets.

Won't matter that much imo, just get direction right before trading your cash.



.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPUSDH1 targets.png Size: 68 KB
  • #1,228
  • Edited 7:12pm Mar 14, 2021 4:53pm | Edited 7:12pm
CHARTS

Are they a traders best friend, or greatest confusion

Are we watching magicians, supply & demand, support & resistance, non specific targets, hard coded targets.

Or algo (that is reaching, for something, always)


Trade to something, or trade away from something is our only choice (other than sitting on our hands for more info)


All big charts catch the eye, because we look to see for one thing usually.

THE repeatable
(a pattern, behaviour or pre-programmed movement)

FOR
how to trade them


Shabs calls his TA

BW has taken on the biggest possible picture, the largest possible, he calls his Maths

while RickM has taken us into the invisible fascinating micro world journey at the smallest mt4 fractal
(like that movie where they shrink someone and inject them into a larger organism, the human body's blood stream)


You can’t beat Forex for discussion imo.
  • #1,229
  • Mar 14, 2021 5:01pm Mar 14, 2021 5:01pm
Quoting Shabs19
{quote} I am just demonstrating these levels that can be seen in advance from existing data on the basis of TA, not even advanced alien technology took me me about 2 minutes to see them. No calculators or formulas, no secret discovery, No algo levels in sight. Markets are real, there are hundreds of thousand contracts daily transactions, money is transferred as in the commodities markets. With USD pairs always wise to watch the USD index coming close to important levels. There is manipulation as there has always been, there is collusion between...
Yep, the levels took me 30secs to find and I do use.
For price to return to, reverse from and generally interact with, can we then say that money pumped/removed from the market creates the opportunity to make use of the levels in our trading and of course as future levels.
If so the degree of precision the market has with different enterprises all jockeying for position pumping and dumping sure have an uncanny knack of taking price to the pip of current and historic levels. Curiosity of course keeps me thinking something else is involved but I do respect your approach to what should be a simple decision.

M.
  • #1,230
  • Mar 14, 2021 5:02pm Mar 14, 2021 5:02pm
Quoting TimeTells
CHARTS Are they a traders best friend, or greatest confusion Are we watching magicians, supply & demand, support & resistance, non specific targets, hard coded targets. Or algo (that is reaching, for something, always) Trade to something, or trade away from something is our only choice (other than sitting on our hands for more info) All big charts catch the eye, because we look to see for one thing usually. THE repeatable (a pattern, behaviour or pre-programmed movement) FOR how to trade them Shabs calls his TA BW has taken on the biggest possible...

Mystifying confusion Pete... like shoe shopping with the wife...
  • #1,231
  • Edited 5:37pm Mar 14, 2021 5:05pm | Edited 5:37pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote}

Mystifying confusion Pete... like shoe shopping with the wife...


Talking about shoes.



A walk down Forex (Lover’s) Lane?

Well, a walk, anyway.


Some traders will wish to know which shoe they should wear.

Some traders will wish to know how the shoe was manufactured.

Some traders will wish to know how the shoe leather was processed for shoe use.

And all these questions are fine.


But in the end.

And with all that knowledge, or observation.

ALL traders in the end, regardless of their shoe,

Will have to choose,

WHICH “STREET” THEY WALK DOWN.
  • #1,232
  • Mar 14, 2021 5:09pm Mar 14, 2021 5:09pm
Quoting TimeTells
On any pair there is an absolute top and bottom price printed .
I always have a target both above and below current price.
And my only trade decision is based on will price go up to a target, or down.
And which has to be resolved (with confirmation, for me) before any trade is place {image}
I agree with the Tops & Bottoms, but the levels in between, which are relevant, which are not ?
Are they not taken out when price breeches those levels ?

What about new territory where market has not visited before or has a very long time ago ?
Do we always need to look at the past history to predict the future ?

Are recent levels stronger or weaker than the past ones ?

What about safe placement of stops & where are the likely targets if price is too far way from Highs or Lows ?

Do we need to have a degree in maths to trade Forex ?

Don't get me wrong TA & FA doesn't work all the time, it can be subjective and prone to interpretation by the trader but to discard TA & FA because of that ?
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #1,233
  • Mar 14, 2021 5:13pm Mar 14, 2021 5:13pm
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Talking about shoes. A walk down Forex (Lover’s Lane?) Well, a walk, anyway. Some traders will wish to know which shoe they should wear. Some traders will wish to know how the shoe was manufactured. Some traders will wish to know how the shoe leather was processed for shoe use. And all these questions are fine. But in the end. And with all that knowledge, or observation. ALL traders in the end, regardless of their shoe, Will have to choose, WHICH “STREET” THEY WALK DOWN.


I would sure like to know all those things, especially if I am having to pay for them.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #1,234
  • Mar 14, 2021 5:17pm Mar 14, 2021 5:17pm
Quoting Shabs19
{quote}
I agree with the Tops & Bottoms, but the levels in between, which are relevant, which are not ?
Are they not taken out when price breeches those levels ?
What about new territory where market has not visited before or has a very long time ago ?
Do we always need to look at the past history to predict the future ?
Are recent levels stronger or weaker than the past ones ?
What about safe placement of stops & where are the likely targets if price is too far way from Highs or Lows ?
Do we need to have a degree in maths to trade Forex ?
Don't...

Top post.

Yes, if there was one answer, one way, then we'd all be trading the same thing in the same direction.

So your advice to ask correct questions imo is what traders must ask themselves.
  • #1,235
  • Mar 14, 2021 5:40pm Mar 14, 2021 5:40pm
And one more, question or answer, to seek.

When do the ALL the sessions open?


(ps NY opens an hour earlier today, Daylight Savings over)
  • #1,236
  • Edited 6:21pm Mar 14, 2021 5:47pm | Edited 6:21pm
Quoting TimeTells
And one more, question or answer, to seek. When do the ALL the sessions open? (ps NY opens an hour earlier today, Daylight Savings over)
https://forex.timezoneconverter.com/

DST information:
http://www.timezoneconverter.com/cgi...erica/New_York

https://www.forexfactory.com/market
Attached Image
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #1,237
  • Edited 7:44pm Mar 14, 2021 7:22pm | Edited 7:44pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote}
Hi moodybot, I have nothing more to add on this thread other than this final post.

A shame imo.


Hi BW,

I always enjoyed your phrase

The algo paints an ILLUSION
(or something similar)

From this standpoint you have suggested strongly that TA might therefore also be an illusion.


While illusions might also be puzzles (which maybe can be ‘worked out’) at some trading level on the charts.
(with great time & patience, similar to what you have done with the Maths)

For an example of illusions, I have chosen some random backfitted (except for the pivot which is real) charts of ma’s whatever.


And I think what you might be suggesting (to all traders) is that when a trader looks at a chart (like the four I posted below),

in a particular “TA way”, then the lines & indis IS ALL that they see. (THE illusion.)

(And with some vendors trying to sell their view saying “their” indi/ma or view whatever is a guaranteed way to success.)


Each trader could ask themselves when they first looked at the 5 charts attached

Were their eyes immediately drawn to the lines/ma’s

(to see if they could make sense of something)


instead of the chart structure itself

(and not even candles, just the chart of where price is, and where it has been - and NOT yet even where it “might” be going)


How we take our first view of a chart, and what we focus on, could be either our biggest mistake or our best enlightenment.


(EDIT: Is this the type of illusion you meant, or something more detail ?)

.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPUSDWeekly illusion 5.png Size: 23 KB
Attached Images
  • #1,238
  • Mar 14, 2021 8:21pm Mar 14, 2021 8:21pm
Quoting BWilliam
Take this understanding one step further. The point is since traditional TA can't tell how the next day will trade, my question is how can traditional TA tell how the market will trade in the next 4 hours, next 1 hour, next 15minutes, next 5minutes? What's the difference? This is my question for traditional TA...
Hi TimeTells, Shabs wrote what EVERY trader, veteran and newbies alike, has these same questions in their minds. ALL of us know the problem.
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...9#post13451349

Ryuryu wrote 2 post to repeat himself talking about the same problem.
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...6#post13450396
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...6#post13450506

I asked the question here at the start of this current discussion.
Quoting BWilliam
Take this understanding one step further. The point is since traditional TA can't tell how the next day will trade, my question is how can traditional TA tell how the market will trade in the next 4 hours, next 1 hour, next 15minutes, next 5minutes? What's the difference? This is my question for traditional TA...
If anyone read this thread carefully you can establish a few key common understanding and status.
1. No one can predict the next day's trading. It's impossible to predict the future.

This one common generally accepted statement has so much problems contained within it.

The taboo word predict. So much arguments about the usage of this word. Waste of time arguments about the semantics that benefit nothing. Are we here waste time arguing about nothing or get past some sacred cows to allow progress or argue for argue sake?

When we press the buy button we are essentially predicting price will rise from here and now. If we don't belief and therefore don't predict that price will rise from here and now wtf do you press that buy button?

Unless members get pass this taboo prediction word, you can continue to kid yourself. Take some weird high horse attitude that you're not predicting then write some long wordsmith essay to explain the shite that you're the so called professional that don't predict. This line of argument is wasting everybody's time.

IF this current discussion get pass this basic first hurdle of predict(which is highly unlikely), then only can the thread progress to the next step to address ryuryu's posts, Shabs post and my original questions.

So, before addressing any pertinent questions related to trading, the question to answer is,

Are members here brave enough to want to discard this bullshite facade in the first place so that you guys can move beyond thus point to discuss the rest waiting there,

Or get stuck with predict to discuss nothing?

You guys don't get pass this, there's no starting point.

I have very very low tolerance for bs. ZERO tolerance for bs. The choice is yours, not mine. You guys deal with it. I don't have to, the three of us in our private discussion got pass this bs many years ago. It makes all sense to me to stay out of this

Cheers
BW
Know what you trade
  • #1,239
  • Mar 14, 2021 8:51pm Mar 14, 2021 8:51pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote}

Hi TimeTells,

Shabs wrote what EVERY trader, veteran and newbies alike, has these same questions in their minds.
ALL of us know the problem.
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...9#post13451349

Cheers BW,

I do not want to drag you back in should you not wish to, or if it feels like we are going around & around in our usual circles.

I did have a question about the illusion factor.

Whether the looking at indi based charts and at ONLY (or firstly) the indis, was that THE illusion.


We all deal with prediction of the 'next / new' price movement (else we all trade the same in the same direction).

RickM deals with it at a "certain time & point" on his detailed knowledge and experience.

Shabs deals with it with TA on his knowledge & experience.

And I do my own 'thing' just with targets based on mine.


IF we all discard our own personal preferred chart 'areas' for just a moment, the areas of forex which we are most comfortable with,
are you saying that a further discussion could still take place regarding a full maths understanding of WHY you can say, like with GU last week,
that price will go somewhere AND TO THERE because it is programmed to do so.

If we take this discussion further then I would be upset if anyone tried to minimise your input in preference to their OWN methodology, which they (we/me) always stick with.


You ask do we want to do this? (discard our own)
But I think you know the answer already, from the replies you have already received earlier in this thread, prior to you saying "enough".

Maybe this further push will not be to your personal benefit (as the bs factor again that you wish to avoid).

So I understand okay if we all end this now, as many have suggested before, yourself included.

all the best BW, much respect
  • #1,240
  • Mar 14, 2021 9:08pm Mar 14, 2021 9:08pm
Quoting TimeTells
Cheers BW, I do not want to drag you back in should you not wish to, or if it feels like we are going around & around in our usual circles. I did have a question about the illusion factor. Whether the looking at indi based charts and at ONLY (or firstly) the indis, was that THE illusion. We all deal with prediction of the 'next / new' price movement (else we all trade the same in the same direction). RickM deals with it at a "certain time & point" on his detailed knowledge and experience. Shabs deals with it with TA on his knowledge & experience....
Hi TimeTells, watch these 2 videos to comprehend and appreciate what it takes to get there. These few minutes footage with Elon Musk tells everything, no words required. Cheers

Inserted Video


Inserted Video
Know what you trade
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