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Real or Algo

  • #1,181
  • Mar 12, 2021 1:52pm Mar 12, 2021 1:52pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote}. But, clearly, what you are observing -- the precision of price updates across kiwi crosses -- is not an algo. It's the crosses moving precisely with the kiwi.
Should be elementary trading knowledge for all.
Basic 101 of trading school.

Apparently not common knowledge it seems.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #1,182
  • Mar 12, 2021 2:11pm Mar 12, 2021 2:11pm
Quoting ryuryu
Love threads where 1 tired trader speaks lazily how he feel the market, where another 1 trader always showing historical charts and where tops and bottoms are highlighted, and somewhere inside the shown period there are always few great trades. Now let's wait for repainting indicator guru to appear. And the thread will be done.
Are you referring to the charts I placed on the thread?
  • #1,183
  • Edited 3:13pm Mar 12, 2021 2:22pm | Edited 3:13pm



edit: small wink is above


I do not care whether the market is voodoo, or witchcraft, or technical or visual, or whatever ... I trade what I see where I can for small takeouts

Each trader imo should use their own view or paradigm, and stick with it.

Just trade well, and safely (please)
Pete


.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: USDCADH4 real market stop hunt classic.png Size: 40 KB
  • #1,184
  • Mar 12, 2021 2:39pm Mar 12, 2021 2:39pm
Quoting TimeTells
. {image}
Amazing Pete

Just the right amount of money as well, just incredible.

  • #1,185
  • Mar 12, 2021 2:56pm Mar 12, 2021 2:56pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} Ok, if you had 10 Million euro and wanted to exchange it for dollars, you'd go to your bank and they would go to the E$ desk and process that transaction. If you had 10 Million euro and wanted to exchange it for Kiwi, there is not a desk that trades EN, so the bank will first exchange euros for dollars, then dollars for kiwi. That's how it works. To put a finer point on it, the A$, E$, and G$ are bank traded, directly impacted by supply and demand. The other 6 are derived pairs. The AY is always, exactly the current value of the A$ times...

Thanks Gfx, this was discussed within the first few pages of the thread. But great contribution.
Thanks.
  • #1,186
  • Edited 4:20pm Mar 12, 2021 3:33pm | Edited 4:20pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote} Thanks Gfx, this was discussed within the first few pages of the thread. But great contribution. Thanks.
Discussed, then forgotten or discarded. It's THE explanation. Everything you guys on Team Algo have brought up, has been explained. Fact is, you guys want to believe this BS. Everything you guys find suspicious or impossible has been explained as innocent or common. It's like talking to a children.
  • #1,187
  • Mar 12, 2021 4:49pm Mar 12, 2021 4:49pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} Discussed, then forgotten or discarded. It's THE explanation. Everything you guys on Team Algo have brought up, has been explained. Fact is, you guys want to believe this BS. Everything you guys find suspicious or impossible has been explained as innocent or common. It's like talking to a children.
As I said mate, thanks for the explanation.
I’ll continue to discuss this bullshit with other people who also think the data feed may/may not be bullshit.
Its strange that this bullshit has such a control on seeking out targets, stops ... but it’s good to know that it’s just an anomaly, a result of banks institutions all wrestling for control. Sheer coincidence I know, for you, pay it no mind.
  • #1,188
  • Mar 12, 2021 5:06pm Mar 12, 2021 5:06pm
Don't worry about all this Andy. You have presented a "thought discussion" for traders, it's up to them whether they wish to participate or not.

And name calling has been around since humans could talk. (A real strong argument, not).

Here's the best I can do, and I thank you Andy for always allowing ME to see the markets how I CHOOSE to. I am in-between any individual opinion always, as I decide my own and always have.

It is best for me when there is a choice of opinions to balance against my own personal one.


So I thank everyone here who has put up an opinion, and not just an ad-hominem.


Because without any free discussion we might just as well ALL read the SAME Forex manuals that are out there to attempt to tell us HOW the market should ONLY be viewed and traded.

(How has that worked out for the new traders that came and went from the markets we love).
  • #1,189
  • Mar 12, 2021 5:36pm Mar 12, 2021 5:36pm
Quoting TimeTells
Don't worry about all this Andy. You have presented a "thought discussion" for traders, it's up to them whether they wish to participate or not. And name calling has been around since humans could talk. (A real strong argument, not). Here's the best I can do, and I thank you Andy for always allowing ME to see the markets how I CHOOSE to. I am in-between any individual opinion always, as I decide my own and always have. It is best for me when there is a choice of opinions to balance against my own personal one. So I thank everyone here who has put...
Hey Pete

Gfx puts across a thought provoking case. And quite rightly.
Heated debate can always come across as rude but as they say in the movies ''sorry for breaking your legs ... its just business, not personal"...
You and I know how often Georges targets are taken out, especially with long runs against the normal state of play, no rhyme or reason for the move but it still ploughs on regardless until target hit. During a midweek reset I know price, with some certainty, will take out Georges target.
It just does whether they like it or not. Rarely it misses but it can.
Old school believe its just money shifting around to move price, which is fine, I get their point of view, even Gfx, but it doesn't explain the targets being taken out.
Now if we relied on just money to move price then its one hell of a coincidence that has not been adequately explained.
  • #1,190
  • Mar 12, 2021 5:53pm Mar 12, 2021 5:53pm
Fair enough.

I head-butt verbally in frustration also Andy, none of us are immune to that human behaviour.

But no one is being childish here imo.

ALL are just 'stopping doing' what they could otherwise be doing in their lives, I guess, to speak (type) their thoughts.

Yes, all can be heard.
  • #1,191
  • Mar 12, 2021 6:29pm Mar 12, 2021 6:29pm
As more & more institutions & LP's have trading software that does their business, is it not possible as Humans with Greed & Fear, also build this into their Algos ?
So we ened up having a lot of algos all programmed and set-up to do exactly the same thing.
Now if we are priveleged enough to see the actual order books as well, then we have an unfair advantage over the rest of the market and can front run it.

If you are a very clever person you could even outsmart the professionals by building your own algo to front-run and "spoof" the market to your advantage in milli seconds provided you know what you are doing. Doesn't require trading knowledge, but just where most stops are likely to be.

Market Behaviour would look like a single algo running the market, wouldn't it ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-51265169

On this index, every time an order was placed to buy or sell, "high frequency traders" - many of them not human but computers running algorithms - would try to make their own trades milliseconds before those orders could be executed. That way, they could be the first to make money from market changes.
Sarao realised that the high frequency traders all used similar software. That made the market twitchy - like a flock of sheep, all moving in the same direction.
His software took advantage of this by placing thousands of orders before quickly cancelling or changing them, once he had created artificial demand for other traders to buy or sell that asset.
This practice - known as "spoofing" - allowed him to make genuine buy or sell orders at a profit as the price swiftly rose or fell.
By feinting one way, he could make the market move in one direction, only for the "Hound" to disappear, nip around the back of the pack and pick up a quick profit, leaving the high frequency traders with nothing.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #1,192
  • Mar 12, 2021 7:00pm Mar 12, 2021 7:00pm
Some interesting reading here:
https://tokenist.com/investing/forex-statistics/

Just 10 institutions control 60% of the forex market.

Is the forex market manipulated ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26526905

'Hooray nice teamwork'
Last November, the UK's financial watchdog, the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) gave some examples of how traders at banks calling themselves names such as "the players", "the 3 musketeers", "1 team, 1 dream" and "the A-team" attempted to manipulate foreign exchange markets.

In one example, it said traders at HSBC had colluded with traders from at least three other firms to attempt to drive the fix for the sterling-dollar rate lower.
It said traders had shared confidential information about client orders prior to the fix, and then used this information to attempt to manipulate the fix downwards.
The sterling/dollar exchange rate fix fell from £1.6044 to £1.6009 in this particular example, making HSBC a $162,000 profit.

Afterwards, traders congratulated themselves, saying: "Loved that mate... worked lovely... pity we couldn't get it below the 00", "there you go.. go early, move it, hold it, push it", "nice works gents..I don my hat" and "Hooray nice teamwork".
In another example, the FCA said Citi traders had attempted to drive the euro/dollar fix upwards by sharing information on its buy orders with traders at other firms.

Traders at these firms then transferred their buy orders to Citi, giving it more influence on the market
Ultimately, the euro/dollar fix rose and Citi's profit for the trade reached $99,000.
After the trade was completed, traders shared congratulatory messages such as "lovely", "yeah worked ok" and "can't teach that".
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #1,193
  • Mar 12, 2021 8:17pm Mar 12, 2021 8:17pm
It's been brought to my attention that some of the thread's participants find my comments unpleasant, and my demeanor offensive. Honestly, I'm hurt. Deeply hurt, that my comments have O-FFENDED anyone. Not butthurt or anything like that. I mean, I don't get my panties in a knot when someone take a small dig at me. But hurt that a few people would take the time to send me PMs to personally take me to task. Not to mention the few follow on posts to my last entry here. This has left me wondering if people who believe in magic algos, are capable of understanding the difference between talking about BS, and talking BS. I'm guessing...no.

I was wondering about the CAD chart that TT posted a 1/2 page up or so. I guess the point is lost on me, given that I traded the $CAD today. I don't get your point. Is this the proof of the robot algo? But, if asking that question is offensive to anyone, please just ignore me.
  • #1,194
  • Mar 12, 2021 8:59pm Mar 12, 2021 8:59pm
Quoting GEfx
But hurt that a few people would take the time to send me PMs to personally take me to task.

I was wondering about the CAD chart that TT posted a 1/2 page up or so.
I guess the point is lost on me, I don't get your point.

Hi GEfx,


Ha, a single post, with 2 premises or statements woven nicely together.


One where you rec'd a PM from a trader on here. (I don't want their name mentioned, naturally)

And the other where I get a mention from a chart pic I posted that has you mystified.


Could you clarify GEfx whether you were too lazy to make two posts re 2 topics.


Or are you merely sneaking in the possibility that maybe it was TT that PM'd you.


So, let's not be children here.

I wonder if you would clarify first whether I have EVER - PM'd you in my two and a bit years on FF.


And then we can talk about the chart pic that has you confused
  • #1,195
  • Mar 12, 2021 9:06pm Mar 12, 2021 9:06pm
Quoting GEfx
It's been brought to my attention that some of the thread's participants find my comments unpleasant, and my demeanor offensive. Honestly, I'm hurt. Deeply hurt, that my comments have O-FFENDED anyone. Not butthurt or anything like that. I mean, I don't get my panties in a knot when someone take a small dig at me. But hurt that a few people would take the time to send me PMs to personally take me to task. Not to mention the few follow on posts to my last entry here. This has left me wondering if people who believe in magic algos, are capable of...
I don’t find your posts offensive.
You have your opinion, I have mine.
Too many threads get trashed when a pod of individuals try and shout down debate.
If that happens here then I’ll minimise.
Blocking or banning doesn’t work as the bad mouthing carries on elsewhere.
I find your manner patronising, referencing magic algo’s etc big boy on the block type stuff, however that’s a normal human trait, so once again keep it rolling.
  • #1,196
  • Mar 12, 2021 9:07pm Mar 12, 2021 9:07pm
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Hi GEfx, Ha, a single post, with 2 premises or statements woven nicely together. One where you rec'd a PM from a trader on here. (I don't want their name mentioned, naturally) And the other where I get a mention from a chart pic I posted that has you mystified. Could you clarify GEfx whether you were too lazy to make two posts re 2 topics. Or are you merely sneaking in the possibility that maybe it was TT that PM'd you. So, let's not be children here. I wonder if you would clarify first whether I have EVER - PM'd you in my...
I have never received a PM from TimeTells.
  • #1,197
  • Mar 12, 2021 9:21pm Mar 12, 2021 9:21pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote}
I have never received a PM from TimeTells.

Cheers GEfx,

I do like you and appreciate your posts, so maybe it was MY mistake then in linking the 2 statements you made into one post.


And, like Andy, I don't honestly have concerns with what anyone says to me or even about me.

I will defend others though lol, a bit like a barking dog, if I would feel my friends were under attack.


(I was Customer Service Mgr for 15 years and I can understand where peoples' verbalistic endeavours come from.)

Ruiz The Four Agreements

I read all The Agreements and while #1 was okay, I wasn't into #3 or #4.

But #2.

I was able to work with and it might help anyone who feels they are under attack from another poster on Forums.
(It might take a couple of readings, and filter the fluff and get down to the guts of the content. I also think there is an audio you tube out there also for non readers.)


So, no, I was not personally offended by your words GEfx.


The 2nd agreement starts on Page 13.

(I assume that this PDF is not under copyright as I found it simply with a Google searcch)
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf Ruiz 4 agreements.pdf   281 KB | 604 downloads
  • #1,198
  • Mar 12, 2021 9:25pm Mar 12, 2021 9:25pm
I get private PM’s from Timetells on a daily basis... driving me nuts..
  • #1,199
  • Mar 12, 2021 9:32pm Mar 12, 2021 9:32pm
Quoting moodybot
I get private PM’s from Timetells on a daily basis... driving me nuts..

ffs Andy, what an absolute fibber.

You'd be the LAST person I would EVER PM



.


(cause I would probably just Skype you lol)
  • #1,200
  • Mar 12, 2021 9:41pm Mar 12, 2021 9:41pm
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} ffs Andy, what an absolute fibber. You'd be the LAST person I would EVER PM . (cause I would probably just Skype you lol)
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