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Real or Algo

  • #801
  • Mar 1, 2021 3:45pm Mar 1, 2021 3:45pm
Quoting TimeTells
Hi BW, Yes, I can also see it as an Algo - running the show. (as I witness too many repetitions of similar recurring scenarios) While it's just narrative though. Doesn’t actually matter if it is an Algo, or it isn’t, in the end. {quote} Sorry, I was offline-FF all day yesterday. I had some friends over for lunch (other retirees ). May I suggest we forget thinking of physics and momentum in relation to forex language. The term momentum actually means something else to me, well in Forex. (not as the mass & velocity of an object)....
Hi TimeTells, I hope you take my response post in the right way. When I started trading back then I had no idea what to think or how to think. There were nobody good enough to guide us newbies. There were few Elioticians and few point and figure traders. At that time I don't remember hearing anything about price action, support resistance or supply and demand or order blocks or pvsra... I still don't believe in any of those.

Even under such lack of available knowledge we were trading the minimum 1standard lot with the spread of 5pips. Only 3 pairs of USDDEM, USDJPY and GBPUSD. The only way to help ourselves was to ask questions. The main people to provide the answers were the dealers, those guys knew something. This is how I develop the habit of asking questions. And try figure out the solution if we can.

I learned most of the trading jargon on FF. I was amazed at the narrative talk on here. I always wondered how these guys know what they're saying because tbh I don't. I have very seldom looked seriously at the strategy section. My trading philosophy and base ideas were already molded before internet trading. The main thing that interest me is the mt4 coding material on here. The rest of my purpose here is interaction with fellow traders, fun and entertainment in a boring trading world we operate in today.

The reason why I write this post is to explain to you my perspective that you can understand better how and why I made my posts. To me, solutions come from my brain figuring things out questioning everything that's how I have approached trading from the beginning. No books, no videos, no forum. No narrative, single algo is borrowed from George. That's my trading world.
Know what you trade
  • #802
  • Edited 4:46pm Mar 1, 2021 3:54pm | Edited 4:46pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote}
Hi TimeTells, I hope you take my response post in the right way. When I started trading back then I had no idea what to think or how to think. There were nobody good enough to guide us newbies. There were few Elioticians and few point and figure traders. At that time I don't remember hearing anything about price action, support resistance or supply and demand or order blocks or pvsra... Even under such lack of available knowledge we were trading the minimum 1standard lot with the spread of 5pips. Only 3 pairs of USDDEM, USDJPY and GBPUSD....

Cheers BW, great post.

Deutche Mark, wow you might be only just a decade, or two, behind my age vintage lol

All the best pal

edit:
for the memories


.
Attached Image
  • #803
  • Mar 1, 2021 4:00pm Mar 1, 2021 4:00pm
Quoting TimeTells
Cheers BW, great post. Deutche Mark, wow you might be only just a decade, or two, behind my age vintage lol All the best pal
To be exact a little under a decade.
Know what you trade
  • #804
  • Mar 1, 2021 4:43pm Mar 1, 2021 4:43pm
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Hi GEfx, Cheers. And yes I understand, and do agree, it is only up to a point. all the best
Hi TimeTellls. The thought behind this comment was that directional bias may become clear before momentum develops, which can be a low, or the lowest, risk trade in the push forward. It's the trade I keep open for a few days, until the next change in direction.
  • #805
  • Mar 1, 2021 4:58pm Mar 1, 2021 4:58pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Hi TimeTells, I hope you take my response post in the right way. When I started trading back then I had no idea what to think or how to think. There were nobody good enough to guide us newbies. There were few Elioticians and few point and figure traders. At that time I don't remember hearing anything about price action, support resistance or supply and demand or order blocks or pvsra... I still don't believe in any of those. Even under such lack of available knowledge we were trading the minimum 1standard lot with the spread of 5pips. Only...
I remember a story from around 1970 in a Midwest newspaper, I think it was the Des Moines Register, about 2 women who traded currencies. They were farm wives in North East Iowa and their farmer husbands had more money than they knew what to do with, so along with their commodity trading, they encouraged their wives to give currency trading a try. They purchased a teletype machine and had daily contact with banks all over the Western World. They started with $1000 each and within 2 years had made a killing, buying DM or Swiss Franc or French Franc, and selling to whoever. They'd use the teletype to test who wanted to buy something, then would find someone to sell them what the other bank needed, and if they could make some money doing it, they'd complete the deal. It was quite an operation.
  • #806
  • Mar 1, 2021 9:40pm Mar 1, 2021 9:40pm
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Are there any signs of ALGO manipulating prices in the chart above? It's a daily chart.
Close Trade At Profit
  • #807
  • Mar 2, 2021 2:25am Mar 2, 2021 2:25am
Quoting Sajid
{quote} ... For example let's say that my trades are at distance of 20 pips (and hence a stop loss of 20 pips). Let's assume that while in operation you incurred 300 stop losses (uhhh too many stop losses . But don't worry). To recover these SLs, how many trades need to be executed? Yes I need to execute 24 trades to recover these 300 SLs. ok I set the robot to execute 3 more trades after achieving the target of 300 SLs recovery. So in that particular case we need 27 trades. 27 trades and each trade at a distance of 20 pips. Let's calculate...
Hi,

I didn't quite get your example here. Because first, you talk about having an asymmetrical R:R (like 20:100). But now you switch to 20:20. Regardless, if I understand your example, you're "always in the market", so if your long trade hits your tp of 20 pips, it goes long again with 20 pips. When at some point it hits the SL of 20 pips, it goes short at that level. Is that correct?
Also, your example of 300SLs are hit, that would mean consecutively. So 6000 pips. Or, is it 300pips of DD (SLs), so 15 consecutive trades?
Mind clearing it up for me?
  • #808
  • Mar 2, 2021 3:04am Mar 2, 2021 3:04am
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} You are looking at the big (real) structure of the market. My only suggestion, if I may, is ... WAIT until a new directional momentum is underway. The FX market has a way of spitting out early enterers in a trade (eg whipsaws, fake n flips, pin bar stop out runs) So wait is my simple advice (especially with AUD which has a prior history of long and extended directional runs) (and imho, what happens AT pivot points is less important than what happens AFTER price moves away - in either direction - from any pivot point, but each to their own...
You mean : it is importand to pass Pivot Points to have a trand, but on what TF ?
  • #809
  • Mar 2, 2021 5:00am Mar 2, 2021 5:00am
Quoting MoritzLehman
{quote}
You mean : it is importand to pass Pivot Points to have a trand, but on what TF ?

Hi Moritz,

If there would be an Algo, facilitating Forex, then it might be always weighing up the balance of longs & shorts currently in play, and other trades entering as market orders.

I work on the idea that many traders would be looking at possible hot trade areas, such as maybe MA crosses etc, and also major Pivot Points. (I don't trade Pivs but I like to know what other traders might be looking at.)

Some traders could assume those pivot lines, once touched, were an area to trade immediate reversals. Other traders might be looking at the Pivot Point lines as continuation breakout lines.

As such, I prefer to sit on the sidelines and merely wait for the market to make “its” move. Rather than attempt to predict or pre-empt which direction price might now take (either up or down).

Once price has made a directional move up or down I then find it easier to find an entry point, after the move (regardless of whether it will be a reversal or a continuation breakout).

Myself I don’t think in terms of “trend”, rather just current directional moves (short term or longer term momentum).

The AUD is a currency that often ranges a little tight (sometimes for a few consecutive days) and then it moves to work into one solid direction (trend, if you like) for a period.

Today was RBA Interest Rate decision day, so I assume it was that what caused ranging the past few days, waiting for the news.

AUD pairs might now take off in a direction for a few days (perhaps lol, perhaps not, always watch the action).

TFs, I look mainly at the 1hr, and trade from the 1 min.

With Pivs (Day, Wk, Month) it won’t matter what TF you use, the lines will be the same on all charts.

all the best
  • #810
  • Mar 2, 2021 5:11am Mar 2, 2021 5:11am
Quoting MoritzLehman
mix model {image}

Good chart, so you have chosen direction.
  • #811
  • Mar 2, 2021 8:19am Mar 2, 2021 8:19am
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Hi Moritz, If there would be an Algo, facilitating Forex, then it might be always weighing up the balance of longs & shorts currently in play, and other trades entering as market orders. I work on the idea that many traders would be looking at possible hot trade areas, such as maybe MA crosses etc, and also major Pivot Points. (I don't trade Pivs but I like to know what other traders might be looking at.) Some traders could assume those pivot lines, once touched, were an area to trade immediate reversals. Other traders might be looking at...
Thanks a lot, it was helpful. In my opinion PPoint matter and very often price bounce off PP, for scalpers it is good news, for tren follower perhaps better to wait for action like you described already. Thanks
  • #812
  • Mar 2, 2021 10:31am Mar 2, 2021 10:31am
From my limited studies - algo's do exist, stop hunts happen, passive buy and sell orders are on spikes - 15 min, 1 hour and 4 hour.
But the only thing which seams to move markets 50 to 100 pips consistently is divergence, and I think its because its a self- for filling prophecy.
Basically if traders are looking for divergence on 4 hours or 1 minute time frames and divergence occurs they take action.
Divergence tends to take place in areas were stops could exist, which backs up stop hunting. For me personally, to discuss this with conviction I would off at least had to double or triple my account which I haven't done.
  • #813
  • Mar 2, 2021 12:24pm Mar 2, 2021 12:24pm
Quoting Barraka
{quote} Hi, I didn't quite get your example here. Because first, you talk about having an asymmetrical R:R (like 20:100). But now you switch to 20:20. Regardless, if I understand your example, you're "always in the market", so if your long trade hits your tp of 20 pips, it goes long again with 20 pips. When at some point it hits the SL of 20 pips, it goes short at that level. Is that correct? Also, your example of 300SLs are hit, that would mean consecutively. So 6000 pips. Or, is it 300pips of DD (SLs), so 15 consecutive trades? Mind clearing it...
Dear brother... Method 1 and Method 2 are two different approaches. Don't mix them.
(I) I have not switched to 20:20. Perhaps you misunderstood something.
(2) Regarding the example.. YES EA will always remain in operation. Hitting 300SL means loss of 6000 pips. You are correct. But that would not mean consecutive 6000 pips loss. Just take a paper. Draw a line. Below the line, you are selling and above the line you are buying. All trades are at 20 pips(supposed) distance with 20 pips stop loss for each trade. By going that way, your equity will always remain positive.
Forex; the game of movements not the game of candles.
  • #814
  • Edited 3:27pm Mar 2, 2021 3:00pm | Edited 3:27pm
Quoting MoritzLehman
{quote} Thanks a lot, it was helpful. In my opinion PPoint matter and very often price bounce off PP, for scalpers it is good news, for tren follower perhaps better to wait for action like you described already. Thanks

Hi Moritz,

I get up this morning and see that AUDUSD has made your chart predicted move.

Very well done.


https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...8#post13430608
  • #815
  • Edited 3:19pm Mar 2, 2021 3:03pm | Edited 3:19pm
I was a little trigger happy in my trading yesterday. Jumping in early. I am still learning in each trade, like everybody.


Real or Algo.

.
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  • #816
  • Mar 2, 2021 3:06pm Mar 2, 2021 3:06pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote}
I remember a story from around 1970 in a Midwest newspaper, I think it was the Des Moines Register, about 2 women who traded currencies. They were farm wives in North East Iowa and their farmer husbands had more money than they knew what to do with, so along with their commodity trading, they encouraged their wives to give currency trading a try.

They purchased a teletype machine and had daily contact with banks all over the Western World.

They started with $1000 each and within 2 years had made a killing, buying DM or Swiss Franc or...


Hi GEfx,

A terrific story from that era.

Trading as trading.

Teletype printers (a pic below).


And phoning around to a Broker for a buy-sell price, can you imagine it lol, I can’t ?

Ringing as price was flying.

Imagine:

“Sorry Sir we must put you on hold for a moment”.



.
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  • #817
  • Edited 10:13pm Mar 2, 2021 9:56pm | Edited 10:13pm
Quoting TimeTells
Hi GEfx, A terrific story from that era. Trading as trading. Teletype printers (a pic below). And phoning around to a Broker for a buy-sell price, can you imagine it lol, I can’t ? Ringing as price was flying. Imagine: “Sorry Sir we must put you on hold for a moment”. . {image}
The spread was 5pips so there's no possibility for scalping as we know it today.
The emergence of scalping came with the narrowing of the spread.
Imagine if the spread is still at 5pips for EURUSD(larger for other pairs) how would todays traders trade?
Imagine if traders wipe their accounts off any profit below 10pips(to account for this 5pips spread) how would their trading account look like?

Edit - To ME, if the trader scalp he has essentially deprived himself from learning how this market operate, a voluntary cop out. A very controversial statement to make. You have the right to disagree.
Know what you trade
  • #818
  • Mar 3, 2021 2:20am Mar 3, 2021 2:20am
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} The spread was 5pips so there's no possibility for scalping as we know it today. The emergence of scalping came with the narrowing of the spread. Imagine if the spread is still at 5pips for EURUSD(larger for other pairs) how would todays traders trade? Imagine if traders wipe their accounts off any profit below 10pips(to account for this 5pips spread) how would their trading account look like? Edit - To ME, if the trader scalp he has essentially deprived himself from learning how this market operate, a voluntary cop out. A very controversial...
Hi BWilliams

There is trading as you know it and there is trading the exhaustion of current orders as they roll in on the order book.
I would say if you don't understand how the order book works, you are guessing and hoping.
I can show you my recent trade I took without any candles, just numbers.
But that may upset a few traders who believe in magic (price action traders)
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #819
  • Mar 3, 2021 3:15am Mar 3, 2021 3:15am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi BWilliams There is trading as you know it and there is trading the exhaustion of current orders as they roll in on the order book. I would say if you don't understand how the order book works, you are guessing and hoping. I can show you my recent trade I took without any candles, just numbers. But that may upset a few traders who believe in magic (price action traders)
Hi RickM,

Pardon my interruption but I would highly appreciate if you can forward to me too if you are sending to BW !

I do know for a fact that there is one paid order book services for MT4. Are you using Future's Orderbook?

Thanks!

Cheers,
Zyzel
Always Learning. I am no Master
  • #820
  • Mar 3, 2021 3:18am Mar 3, 2021 3:18am
Quoting RickM
Hi BWilliams There is trading as you know it and there is trading the exhaustion of current orders as they roll in on the order book. I would say if you don't understand how the order book works, you are guessing and hoping. I can show you my recent trade I took without any candles, just numbers. But that may upset a few traders who believe in magic (price action traders)
I have written earlier if traders scalp with supposed level2 orderflow why pay for ambiguous proprietary data extracted from futures market trade forex instead of join the thousands of futures traders who read the tape ?
The answer for this question is ...
Know what you trade
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