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Price action at the core = family members' discussion project

  • #241
  • Nov 19, 2020 7:29pm Nov 19, 2020 7:29pm
And here .....
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Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #242
  • Nov 19, 2020 8:39pm Nov 19, 2020 8:39pm
And leading into the weekend, just one more and I think that'll do it.

My idea of proper (AKA Insightful) use of an Oscillative Indicator, when combined with momentum, volatility, market active blowback and simple entry and exit.

Why use an indicator like this?

Q. - Have you ever noticed that the more stuff you put on your chart, the worse it looks? Yes I said looks. Someone asked me what do I mean by "objective"?

Think of one of those international pro tennis matches. You have a singles match. You have two players, a ball, a net, up to 9 line umpires and 1 chair (overview) umpire. What's missing? You. The Spectator. Trading is exactly like this. The only thing you KNOW is that "price action" cannot literally backtrack on the path it just took. It needs to find a new way. It's the same with Tennis. Same shot, different time. And knowing how to use an indicator is no different. From my perspective, trying to trade overbought or oversold the way people "think, feel, believe" it's meant to be, is, well, to me, questionable. Then there's this way of manipulating the parameters to 'change' the feel of it. Indicators are simple creatures, really they are. You have two options = short time horizon or long one. I say time horizon to give context to how there is a difference between this and long/short prices quoted.... You know, overbought or oversold. Below is a pic a trader needs to look at and possess a deep understanding of the contextual differences between the two approaches. One deals with price over time in relative calculations and the other time over price. Can you pick which is which?

So objective is about seeing it all. Being the chair umpire. BUT, also, knowing you are not infallible. So you need to use a RELATIVE time price interval to be sure that what your eyes see, is the same as what you brain is either interpreting, OR, collecting and thus concluding.

I hope that helps.

Peter

PS - That chart pic I found in another thread about trading made simple. Ironic right.
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Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #243
  • Nov 19, 2020 8:57pm Nov 19, 2020 8:57pm
And yes, sorry, forgot a real life example ........
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Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #244
  • Nov 20, 2020 10:14am Nov 20, 2020 10:14am
Quoting PeterCaleb
And yes, sorry, forgot a real life example ........ {image}
hello sir,Could you explain what going on those chart?
  • #245
  • Nov 20, 2020 7:03pm Nov 20, 2020 7:03pm
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This market (GBPJPY) flattened off after flowing down a bit. The channels are there to gauge usual market activity (the 'idea' of fair value) vs what has become and been named Standard Deviation. However, from what I've seen, most people don't know how to use it. They just throw a channel indicator on the chart and try and work it out as they go. The relationship there between the STD DEV and RSI should be self evident. Both are concepts (Therefore there is always the exception to the "rules") and they operate according to a relative assessment. This means, if you are a discretionary trader, like me, you want to gauge fair market value vs liquidity vs the perceptions of all involved. To some people this is not new information, but most people don't realize that trading is a Life Skill Set. It's something you grow with. Anyway, the horizontal lines on price are to register that relationship I spoke of between (basically as a visual identifier) price behavior, relative price valuation to the extremes and then the horizontals on the RSI do the same thing on the relative highs and lows of the oscillator. And the arrows are there to point to the trade setups available. The angled black trendlines drawn are just my lines I had on the chart still when I did this to show people what I am now discussing.

If you perform the exercise I mentioned earlier, of using overlays on a single chart .... when you begin you open a 15MIN chart. Zoom out completely. What you see is a string effect of price through time. It creates its own 'fair value' along with the 'extremes'.

This is probably one of the reason why people struggle so deeply. Trading is indeed a world unto itself.
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #246
  • Edited 11:26pm Nov 20, 2020 10:57pm | Edited 11:26pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi Peter I think George's followers went in the wrong direction in his new thread of trying to guess which way direction price would move by looking at multiple waves. That was not his first objective, rather to tell traders to wait in his playground area for price to expand into our trading zone. The whole idea was to trade known exhaustion zones. For some unknown reason, George dropped this strategy and started trading Elliot waves (or his version anyway) but couldn't successfully expand it to one single trader. Last time I talked to George...
Yes that's right for me.
George's first trading methodology a.k.a Price Action at the Core is more suited for me. It's already a complete recipe.

The utmost dangerous things are our interpretations on George teachings. Most of us DO NOT AWARE of our hidden conditioning.
It's why George always teaching us how to teach ourselves TO FIND X FACTOR in our mindset then completely MOVE ON to new beliefs.

That is be BOUNDLESS first,
and what mistake i make is blindly jump to George system a.k.a technical indi and so on.

Completely change our beliefs about the market is FIRST STEP. Unseen factor in my thought MUST be find, then change it, then conditioning it again and again.
IT"S NEED TIME ... TIME... TIME... TIME

Patience is a virtue someone said
Patience on WHAAAAAAAAT brooooo ? patience to WAIT for PRICE movement GO TO EXHAUSTED ZONE in 3-time frame

Mr. George already gives REAL THINGS ... and the only aim is to be WAITING TRADER, NOT GUESSING where the price is likely to go. It is not educated guess at all. and will not.

ZERO GUESSING ... yaw
  • #247
  • Nov 21, 2020 12:38am Nov 21, 2020 12:38am
Quoting deanyakobs
{quote} Yes that's right for me. George's first trading methodology a.k.a Price Action at the Core is more suited for me. It's already a complete recipe. The utmost dangerous things are our interpretations on George teachings. Most of us DO NOT AWARE of our hidden conditioning. It's why George always teaching us how to teach ourselves TO FIND X FACTOR in our mindset then completely MOVE ON to new beliefs. That is be BOUNDLESS first, and what mistake i make is blindly jump to George system a.k.a technical indi and so on. Completely change...
Hi Deanyakobs

Lets just take the mystery out of George's message.
No Boundless talk,
No Magic TMA settings
No rule book full of 25 steps to look at before trading,
No magic action controlled by an Algo

Now lets just talk about how you developed your strategy out of Georges ideas.
I take it you are trading after when three time frames are either oversold or over brought.

So Exhaustion on M1 / M15 / H1 ?
What tools ?

Also if other traders like to share their journey, I would be interested.

Cheers Rick
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #248
  • Nov 21, 2020 1:41am Nov 21, 2020 1:41am
I have an example here of what I think Peter was talking about though I don't know if it is right, The 1hr made a low and then it was taken out later

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  • #249
  • Nov 21, 2020 2:12am Nov 21, 2020 2:12am
what is all this bazaar for? George’s method works! George added fibo and waves to see the big picture. He was caught as he wrote. Scalpers don't need the big picture, they don't need H4 or higher. Only he can criticize George , who still does not understand how his method and waves work)))

Cheers Mike
  • #250
  • Nov 21, 2020 2:45am Nov 21, 2020 2:45am
here is one of my last deals on his method. Look where I entered and where I left)) Hey scalpeps, you never dreamed of that!
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  • #251
  • Nov 21, 2020 3:11am Nov 21, 2020 3:11am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi Deanyakobs Lets just take the mystery out of George's message. No Boundless talk, No Magic TMA settings No rule book full of 25 steps to look at before trading, No magic action controlled by an Algo Now lets just talk about how you developed your strategy out of Georges ideas. I take it you are trading after when three time frames are either oversold or over brought. So Exhaustion on M1 / M15 / H1 ? What tools ? Also if other traders like to share their journey, I would be interested. Cheers Rick
Thanks Rick M,
i learn these

wait for the first pull back
then
identify real time GRINDING type
then ..
take the trade

the belief that all financial market price is completely controlled by ONE POWER/ENTITY GLOBALLY help me A LOT in my trading cause its just click when i take the trade. ITs mean THAT IN THE END PRICE ALWAYS GO TO THE TARGET a.k.a liquidity gaps, price gap, herd mentality validation, stop loss pool/zone/cluster ABOVE or BELOW current price.

then .. wait & watch how price react when its reach or breach on TARGET ZONE a.k.a stop-loss pool in 3 TF in correlation with TMAtrue in 1 Minute TF also in relation with grinding type

oh .. price mathematic filter and
my pips target only 12-20 pips per trade


really appreciate your input Rick
I'm NOT getting there, yet

BUT .. still not grasp the concept of 3 TF momentum and liquidity vacuum yet
  • #252
  • Nov 21, 2020 3:32am Nov 21, 2020 3:32am
[quote=George AUS;13054735]Hello again everyone ,, Just for those who do NOT understand what I am talking about ,,, SO we do NOT keep getting clutter here ,,, And more traders being confused ,,, Here is a chart to look at ,,, THIS IS WHAT A WAVE CYCLE LOOKS LIKE ,, IT IS IN THE MAKING FROM WHAT I CAN SEE ,,, THE LAST RUN UP SECTION AFTER THE LOW IS ,,, THE 2ND LAST SECTION ,, AND ,,, IF ,,, I AM NOT WRONG HERE ,,, THE MARKET SHOULD

Rick, George has calculated 100% by Fibo and waves, where the market will turn! You don't need fibo and waves, how you traded according to your own scheme, and trade, why are you posting here at all? And I need a thread about this too .. I've been with you scalpers for a month on our chat, I haven't learned anything))) I'm not criticizing you, am I?
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  • #253
  • Edited 6:18am Nov 21, 2020 4:59am | Edited 6:18am
Quoting mik2012
Quoting George AUS
Hello again everyone ,, Just for those who do NOT understand what I am talking about ,,, SO we do NOT keep getting clutter here ,,, And more traders being confused ,,, Here is a chart to look at ,,, THIS IS WHAT A WAVE CYCLE LOOKS LIKE ,, IT IS IN THE MAKING FROM WHAT I CAN SEE ,,, THE LAST RUN UP SECTION AFTER THE LOW IS ,,, THE 2ND LAST SECTION ,, AND ,,, IF ,,, I AM NOT WRONG HERE ,,, THE MARKET SHOULD Rick, George has calculated 100% by Fibo and waves, where the market will turn! You don't need fibo and waves, how
...
Hi Mike

I don't get your post, on one hand you say George uses Fibo and waves - then you said he doesn't ?

Why am I posting here - because if Peter, Deanyakobs and myself don't post here - THE WHOLE HISTORY OF GEORGE'S WORK DISAPPEARS INTO HISTORY

Is that what you want?

Anyway, always nice reading your posts so keep them coming.

Cheers Rick
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #254
  • Nov 22, 2020 9:19am Nov 22, 2020 9:19am
Sorry, Rick, I probably didn't understand you .. you just gave an introduction. But George's rules work on his filters. Remember when I asked what is expansion-exhaustion, when the price goes into grinding, and then expansion comes? So your expansion is often the 3rd and 5th waves. I remember you looking at this ...

Cheers Mike
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  • #255
  • Nov 22, 2020 6:32pm Nov 22, 2020 6:32pm
To avoid confusion here, I want to be candid and calm about all this ......

I, Peter, am NOT a scalper. Nor a momentum breakout trader, nor a trend trader. I am a TRADER. Nothing more or less.

Please step WAY back from your device right now and REALLY truly think about what that really says.

IF George, uses the D1, H4, H1 ..... is he a "trend trader". Being TRUTHFUL and mature about your response, you can ONLY say "maybe". If he uses the M30, M15 and M1, is he a "scalper"? Again ..... AT BEST .... "maybe".

Personally most of the remarks made here remind me of people who are still learning and mastering the basics of trading ANY financial market.

NB - I'm not trying to start a fight. I am just being honest.

Just because you load your orders in at a reference point that "connects" a MTF view, DOES NOT warrant ANY offering for a profitable outcome that you cannot achieve in other ways. Nor does it guarantee a successful outcome. MTF analysis can offer further bias in your favor but that is all.

Your step 1 REALLY and realistically, needs to be your head space. NO ONE can help you in those moments when you're on your own and there's no one to blame or help you make a decision. PERIOD.

It's the CONCEPT of learning how to think and observe that is paramount for all of you trying to learn this business through George's material. If you doubt this or "don't agree", ask these 2 simple Q's - Why do most strategies work sometimes but not other times? And - Why do some strategies sometimes breakdown and just stop work completely?

George's idea/approach of the market maker is not new, nor is Jamal's re: smart and dumb money. Anyone who has many many years of experience knows that these are just sub-culture rhetoric. It's not pleasant for me to say these things but they are true and factual.

If you have progressed far enough with George's material, and if it is working for you, then that's great. Just keep in the back of your mind this simple truth - All of the free markets worldwide, that allow us, as private citizens, to be private individual traders, are merely there to see how good we are at being truthful and honest. THAT is HOW you make your profits from trading. You cannot do that if you sacrifice proper thinking and self management, for a "story" that attempts to take responsibility for your ability to think. PERIOD. People are very good at distracting themselves from basic truthful things. So when you're talking about all this stuff, whenever you are, please remember that fighting and arguing achieves nothing. The concept that George is sharing is a stepping stone to you thinking for yourself in a more mature and well-rounded way. "Boundless" does not mean you are God and infallible. But it CAN refer to being flexible to understand when you're wrong, when you right and when you need to learn something.

"Young" traders need to be humble and open to learning. Meanwhile "old/older" traders ALSO need to be humble. Otherwise hubris creeps in. And that leads to lots of pain and losses.

To tell you the truth, the ONLY people I've ever known who have "made it" as you might say, in trading, are the ones who rise above the intellectual games and the terminology fighting. They call a spade a spade and do their best to keep it as simple and truthful as possible. Otherwise you get into arguments over crap that just doesn't matter. So, as an easily identifiable example - go back and look at all the threads you participate in and observe the words, terminology and pics and strategies and tactics and opinions etc that you can see.

As one example from me - When I was much younger and still learning this business, we called a trade ... a trade setup. We called a trade order just an order. Today, most people don't even use the same words with the same meaning. I say trade, but you might say trade and mean just a single order, not a trade setup. See how silly and confusing it gets when you try to outwit or outsmart yourself AND other people with jargon and other things. In one word --> MESSY.

And George's material is the same. Same as anyone who has written a book about trading or how to trade or been a mentor, educator etc. So from my perspective, George did himself a great disservice by introducing "new" jargon when the audience was ALREADY beaten to a pulp by all the OTHER jargon and terminology etc that came before. THIS is what it means to have proper thinking. To not repeat history because you can see where it leads and what happens every time.

Whether you choose to believe me or not, is up to you. What I speak of is from a lifetime of doing what most of you are just starting out trying to accomplish. Am I better than George? No. Is he better than me? No. And THAT is where your thinking needs to be.

People who think someone with wisdom and experience is just preaching/lecturing, from my experience, is someone who is mentally and/or emotionally stuck back in grade school (or whatever you call primary and secondary school). The real world requires you to learn how to turn "negative criticism" into "constructive input/feedback". THAT is HOW you learn and grow as a human being and in turn, a trader. But don't just "believe me". Life is FULL of examples. So go find them.

One last thing here, the 'concept', that George calls the market maker, is a perception, an idea. And it CAN change without telling you. SO please don't get bogged down in being robotic about learning this. If you would like to understand what I mean, try opening a H1 chart, zoom out completely, grab one of those channel type indicators where you can specify the TF it is set to and select the W1 chart. When you do this make as many observations as you can. Have fun.

"If you have ever watched or seen a motorcycle, a car and a truck try and do a u-turn, then you already know the HOW re: MTF overlap behavior."

Peter
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Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #256
  • Nov 22, 2020 7:57pm Nov 22, 2020 7:57pm
Most of what trips people up when trading these markets, from my own experience and observation, is the difference between a conspicuous characteristic about that market you are trading and a nuance. The conspicuous or obvious ones are the same ones you could use an indicator to see eg - RSI, Stochastic etc. But the nuances, are the more subtle and more sneeky things that happen. George tried to share some eg - price gaps and liquidity pools and gaps. However, these markets play tricks on us and want us to get comfy with using just one perspective eg a single TF to observe, trade and track. But there ARE other perspectives available. An easy way to fix this problem would be to use multiple TFs. But anyone with enough experience knows that this doesn't deal with the biggest thing that plagues a trader - FEAR.

I've met people who were afraid of - being wrong, being right, being profitable and not, losing money. But the biggest one is being SEEN to be wrong. I have personally experienced this before and I'm sure others have too.

So you can either be right, be wrong or .... be objective. This the hardest to acknowledge even EXISTS, because a person needs to get past everything that they've been taught to be. If you have an opinion about something, that's being subjective. If you stand next to two people who are both sharing their opinions then you are now being somewhat more objective.

For example, asset21 Post 248 ..... yes indeed that is what you can see there. Now look from H1 to M15 to M1. Starting with H1 - It moves down. Draw counter line as you did. And from where the blue rectangle is being drawn on both H1 and M15, And observe the M15 market activity now as it provides more detail of its intentions. And then the M1. Even more detail.

In this example, what I call a nuance, you might call MTF fractal. But really its basically the same thing. Being able to see opportunity. And that's what you are as a trader - an opportunist. They are the other things you must learn hands on, you cannot read it in a book.

I hope that helps.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #257
  • Nov 22, 2020 8:01pm Nov 22, 2020 8:01pm
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Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #258
  • Nov 22, 2020 8:02pm Nov 22, 2020 8:02pm
"If you have ever watched or seen a motorcycle, a car and a truck try and do a u-turn, then you already know the HOW re: MTF overlap behavior."

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #259
  • Nov 22, 2020 8:13pm Nov 22, 2020 8:13pm
FACT: While the market is going in one general direction, on the TF you have chosen to track, observe and trade .... always remember that it is literally impossible for it to be going the opposite direction on that same TF. So choose your TF's wisely and be even more prudent about your perspective. No move on ANY TF lasts forever.

"If you can raise or lower the drawbridge AND see a walkway being drawn/emerging sideways (overall), then it should be easy to color in the price "vacuum/void" to be filled behind it. This is the fundamental essence of the MTF trade setup George has tried to share. But remember, MTF "alignment" has NO bearing on the outcome, it merely offers feasible bias. So try not to accept pitiful R:R of anything less than 1:5 or 6 unless you know what you're doing.

I hope that helps.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #260
  • Nov 22, 2020 9:18pm Nov 22, 2020 9:18pm
HI Rick, I know what you mean. For me, time frames are just a concept as a tool. Just the same with order flow. People who have only experienced time based frames of the market as in mt4 etc, do not understand how to slice up what goes on. For me, someone who has and does use totality tick charts with other asset class markets, it's extraordinary just how much difference it can make. And I can see how and why you would say that about George's original thread. Precision only comes with experience and that shows what you need and want from your activities.

So Rick it's OK if MTF work doesn't ring your bell. That's the nice thing about financial trading. You set your own tasks and goals.

Thanks for talking.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
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