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Just learned about hedging, does anyone use it for scalping?

  • #581
  • Sep 17, 2020 12:49pm Sep 17, 2020 12:49pm
Quoting wingate
STrading you have just proved EXACTLY why you DO NOT have a clue what is being discussed here! You have the audacity to call me an idiot Yo are so,so STUPID it's untrue haha. You have just written and I quote.. "You have a great logic to present to us here, your equity goes down but you have'nt lost money, read this again your EQUITY goes DOWN but you haven't LOST money". Man the things we see here.... You do not have a TRUE LOSS you have a TEMPORARY PAPER LOSS, how can you not understand this simple TRUTH, it's SO SIMPLE IT's HARD?...
You have been promoted to a stupid idiot congratulations.
A decrease in your equity is a loss wheter you like it or not, it can be a controled loss an uncontroled loss, but it his a loss.
Íf i open a trade, it goes against me and i end with a loss of 90% of my equity is this not a loss? Even if the market turns and i end up making money on this trade, i still had a period when i lost 90% of my equity.
If i trade with a SL and lose 5 trades then on the 6 make all the losses back and some profit, does this mean that i didnt have any losses? If i trade for 1 year and be profitable for one year can i tell that i havent got any losses because i made more money than i lost?
The losses are there if you hedge, and it does not mean that you cant recover those losses, but they are still fucking THERE do you understand????
I would also love to know wich broker you are trading with since mine doesnt give me the option to have TEMPORARY PAPER LOSS.
  • #582
  • Sep 17, 2020 1:54pm Sep 17, 2020 1:54pm
Quoting wingate
{quote} For your information my 'ass' was never in the fire in the first place. I was ideally placed whether the market went either 'up' or 'down' I SIMPLY NEEDED THE MARKET TO DECIDE WHICH WAY IT WANTED TO GO before acting accordingly. Apparently I had a very fortunate FA this morning, Guess what? I don't have a clue what you are talking about, I don't care I don't do technicals I don't bother with FAKE NEWS haha You like to follow the news no problem, works for you fine but don't bash me because I don't and...
Now, wait a minute. You stated that all your trades were negative, but after the big, unexpected FA hit the GBP, you closed all positions with a +10% gain. So, at some point, you went net short. You closed your negative buys, caught the wave down with your net shorts, and the result was: total loss on longs + total gain on shorts divided by balance in account equals a +10% gain? And there was nothing behind your decisions to be long or short or to "hedge", or to close the longs and exit exactly where you did on the FA at 90 pips, except your terrific intuition? Why would you close those positions and instead why not "hedge" at that time? Your sense of intuition missed the square up of the move you benefited from?

I put together a trading journal on FF that shows what I do as a trader. If anyone doubts what I do or suggests that my trading comments are not truthful, all they have to do is go to my journal and see what I do and why I know what I am talking about. I have, at times, benefited from such unexpected FA's as you saw this morning, and every time I note that I was lucky and thankful to whoever was responsible for the FA. But, your trading is such, that you don't know when you have been lucky or skillful, because you are unware of what the hell is going on in the forex. If anyone reading this thread believes that your bullshit claims are real, that you can be a completely clueless but still make money in the forex just by "hedging", you are fools and deserve to be separated from your trading money. Wingate, if you had just given some narrative as to why you were trading, something stupid like you were trading the pole pattern and counting on the next pole to form after the flag pattern, I'd have believe you. But you admitted that you are fully clueless and unaware of what is going on in the market, and the question to everyone here is, do you really think that trading is so easy that you can be totally ignorant and make a living in the forex? How has that been working for you so far?

Stay away from people like wingate. Hell, stay away from people like me, too, until we can prove that have something worthwhile to offer you. Trust me, everyone with a developed bullshit detector who as read wingate's recent posts has bells ringing in their heads right now.
  • #583
  • Sep 17, 2020 2:08pm Sep 17, 2020 2:08pm
Quoting STrading
{quote} You have been promoted to a stupid idiot congratulations. A decrease in your equity is a loss wheter you like it or not, it can be a controled loss an uncontroled loss, but it his a loss. Íf i open a trade, it goes against me and i end with a loss of 90% of my equity is this not a loss? Even if the market turns and i end up making money on this trade, i still had a period when i lost 90% of my equity. If i trade with a SL and lose 5 trades then on the 6 make all the losses back and some profit, does this mean that i didnt have any losses?...
Where have I said I DO NOT TAKE LOSSES of course I do!!!! Look at my trades from last week documented for all to see. My ratio was approximately 3:1 for FUCKS SAKE I do take losses, geez call me stupid you moron

YOU take losses via STOP LOSSES and I also take losses via a CLOSED BASKET of BOTH winning and loosing trades. We BOTH TAKE LOSSES can we at least agree on that?

You are obviously a smarter trader than me because you are capable of 'GUESSING' with a better than 50% 'chance' of being correct. I on the other hand do not have your confidence or knowledge so therefore 'position' myself before committing one way or the other.

The long and short of it is we both trade differently, we BOTH TAKE LOSSES and we both aim to profit eventually. Neither YOU or I are right or wrong we both have a common GOAL of winning.
  • #584
  • Sep 17, 2020 2:29pm Sep 17, 2020 2:29pm
Quoting wingate
{quote} Where have I said I DO NOT TAKE LOSSES of course I do!!!! Look at my trades from last week documented for all to see. My ratio was approximately 3:1 for FUCKS SAKE I do take losses, geez call me stupid you moron YOU take losses via STOP LOSSES and I also take losses via a CLOSED BASKET of BOTH winning and loosing trades. We BOTH TAKE LOSSES can we at least agree on that? You are obviously a smarter trader than me because you are capable of 'GUESSING' with a better than 50% 'chance' of being correct. I on the...
Yes but this is the point some of us are making. just say i prefer to hedge, this is how i like to do things. I dont see nothing wrong in that and i am not against someone hedging.
In most examples here hedging does not provide the advantage that people claim it does. It his the same thing, SL or hedging.
  • #585
  • Sep 17, 2020 2:42pm Sep 17, 2020 2:42pm
Quoting wingate
{quote} Where have I said I DO NOT TAKE LOSSES of course I do!!!! Look at my trades from last week documented for all to see. My ratio was approximately 3:1 for FUCKS SAKE I do take losses, geez call me stupid you moron YOU take losses via STOP LOSSES and I also take losses via a CLOSED BASKET of BOTH winning and loosing trades. We BOTH TAKE LOSSES can we at least agree on that? You are obviously a smarter trader than me because you are capable of 'GUESSING' with a better than 50% 'chance' of being correct. I on the...
Post #566, you said you never close a trade in a loss. I know, it becomes difficult to keep the shit you generate all in order.

I never guess. To suggest that I guess is a clear indication that youve failed to review my journal. That's okay, but using the adverb guess to describe what I do when I execute a trade is laughable. To review for you, there is structure, then narrative, and then patterns in support of narrative and structure, along with risk mitigation and margin stewardship. I could have a discussion with someone about "hedging" in that context, but not in the context of trading on a whim.
  • #586
  • Sep 17, 2020 2:48pm Sep 17, 2020 2:48pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} Now, wait a minute. You stated that all your trades were negative, but after the big, unexpected FA hit the GBP, you closed all positions with a +10% gain. So, at some point, you went net short. You closed your negative buys, caught the wave down with your net shorts, and the result was: total loss on longs + total gain on shorts divided by balance in account equals a +10% gain? And there was nothing behind your decisions to be long or short or to "hedge", or to close the longs and exit exactly where you did on the FA at 90 pips, except...
You think you're so clever don't you, well YOU ARE NOT. AT NO TIME SINCE OPENING THIS BASKET LAST FRIDAY HAVE I BEEN EITHER NETT LONG OR NETT SHORT ONLY I have been HEDGED at ALL TIMES albeit by a varying percentage LONG or SHORT depending on THE LONGER TERM TREND which incidentally had remained SHORT on the 4hr since last week. What an arrogant person you are, stick with what YOU know it obviously works well for you but don't knock something that you know diddly squat about haha

Attached screenshot of my CLOSED Hedge Basket from today for you to pick holes in (go on you know you want to). I will admit to being slightly out with my overall balance however, it was more like 8-9% I can live with that.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #587
  • Sep 17, 2020 2:52pm Sep 17, 2020 2:52pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} I'm curious: will your broker allow you to trade with negative equity? If you follow this approach and do not have the trading skills of MZ, it is very likely that you are going to experience negative equity. Some brokers will force a margin call when your equity hits -$.01. Just wondering...

How do I approach my trading?
  • #588
  • Sep 17, 2020 3:08pm Sep 17, 2020 3:08pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} Post #566, you said you never close a trade in a loss. I know, it becomes difficult to keep the shit you generate all in order. I never guess. To suggest that I guess is a clear indication that youve failed to review my journal. That's okay, but using the adverb guess to describe what I do when I execute a trade is laughable. To review for you, there is structure, then narrative, and then patterns in support of narrative and structure, along with risk mitigation and margin stewardship. I could have a discussion with someone about "hedging"...
Wow just Wow trying to pick holes in what I have said previously...

I have been very quiet this week and for GOOD REASON. My previous post (469) showed VERY CLEARLY my trading results from LAST WEEK on ONE CHART. I finished that post by saying I was currently in an OPEN BASKET, this basket was opened Friday lunchtime and I have only been in a position to CLOSE it today 4 Days Later. During these past 4 days I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN IN A LOSS (there I just said it Always IN A LOSS) Not only that but at certain times BOTH my BUY and SELL trades in the BASKET were LOOSING!!! YES my EQUITY decreased but hey GUESS WHAT SMARTARSE I somehow managed to close THE ENTIRE BASKET OF BOTH BUY AND SELL POSITIONS IN PROFIT. A LOSS is ONLY a LOSS if you close it as such, got it? Doh. Theses accumulated losses are just temporary paper losses.

Obviously referring to the above YOU have picked me up on this... I somehow managed to close THE ENTIRE BASKET OF BOTH BUY AND SELL POSITIONS IN PROFIT. A LOSS is ONLY a LOSS if you close it as such, got it? Doh. Theses accumulated losses are just temporary paper losses.

You have deliberately taken that line out of context, I can understand however that I did not write that how it was meant! What I meant to say was I closed the basket which included BOTH winning and loosing trades BUT overall the BASKET CLOSED IN PROFIT.

You know what, I think what really pisses you off is the fact that someone can trade successfully without all the hard work that you make of it
  • #589
  • Sep 17, 2020 3:14pm Sep 17, 2020 3:14pm
Quoting wingate
{quote} You think you're so clever don't you, well YOU ARE NOT. AT NO TIME SINCE OPENING THIS BASKET LAST FRIDAY HAVE I BEEN EITHER NETT LONG OR NETT SHORT ONLY I have been HEDGED at ALL TIMES albeit by a varying percentage LONG or SHORT depending on THE LONGER TERM TREND which incidentally had remained SHORT on the 4hr since last week. {image}
What happened to the claim that you closed this "hedged" basket with a 10% gain? Did you re-think that? You claimed that your "hedged" basket was in a loss, but then, as the GBP crosses popped lower, you closed with a 10% profit. Now, you say that you were completely "hedged" (and as stated in a loss). We have established to traders only make money on the net position, so if you made money on what were negative "hedges", you had to be net short as the GJ fell, and net by enough to cover your locked in "hedged" losses, plus enough to drive your margin account 10% higher, which is possible is the 90 pip move was enough to cover all that. This is all pretty impressive for a guy who doesn't care about TA or FA and is just trading on intuition. Could you unpack what you did to achieve that impressive gain?
  • #590
  • Sep 17, 2020 3:21pm Sep 17, 2020 3:21pm
GEfx...

You may like to analyse my latest basket opened earlier today (seeing as though that is your speciality) I'm sure you will find a way to pick holes and discredit me. Trading using no more than a couple of trendiness and an ever watchful eye on the HIGHER TIMEFRAMES
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  • #591
  • Sep 17, 2020 3:31pm Sep 17, 2020 3:31pm
Thought I would re-post this link...great read for those just plain confused...

https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...ge-trade-panel
  • #592
  • Sep 17, 2020 4:02pm Sep 17, 2020 4:02pm
Quoting wingate
GEfx... You may like to analyse my latest basket opened earlier today (seeing as though that is your speciality) I'm sure you will find a way to pick holes and discredit me. Trading using no more than a couple of trendiness and an ever watchful eye on the HIGHER TIMEFRAMES {image}
I'm trying to reconcile your chart that stated you earned 10% gain on the GJ basket. From your latest post, you made 10% gain trading on $.10 per pip. So the mystery deepens. The chart shows one thing but the spreadsheet another. So you made 10% on the GJ, but the 4 trades from today made about 60 cents. You're account balance is about $550, so the rest of the GJ basket made around $50? On "hedged" trades that were negative? I'm still interested in how that all worked out. I do think that if you can make 10% per week with a $550 account, you could make some serious money in a few years. But I'm still not sure how you did it.
  • #593
  • Sep 17, 2020 4:05pm Sep 17, 2020 4:05pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote} How do I approach my trading?
No, does your broker allow you to trade with negative equity?
  • #594
  • Sep 17, 2020 4:18pm Sep 17, 2020 4:18pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} No, does your broker allow you to trade with negative equity?
Nope. Why do you think I'm heading into negative equity?
Now you can answer my question, how do i approach my trading?
Bottom of this post it says never assume, been using that for a very long time...that applies directly to you!
  • #595
  • Sep 17, 2020 4:27pm Sep 17, 2020 4:27pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote} Nope. Why do you think I'm heading into negative equity? Now you can answer my question, how do i approach my trading? Bottom of this post it says never assume, been using that for a very long time...that applies directly to you!
Let me help you with something. Were I to assume something, i would make a statement. Instead, I asked a question.

As for how you trade, I have no idea and don't care how you trade. The point of my question is, if you (that is, anyone reading the post) "hedges" and you (again, the reader) encounter a negative equity due to your (again, any reader) collection of "hedged" losses, you could have a positive balance and a negative equity, resulting in a margin call.
  • #596
  • Sep 17, 2020 4:49pm Sep 17, 2020 4:49pm
* YAWN *
  • #597
  • Sep 17, 2020 5:38pm Sep 17, 2020 5:38pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} Let me help you with something. Were I to assume something, i would make a statement. Instead, I asked a question. As for how you trade, I have no idea and don't care how you trade. The point of my question is, if you (that is, anyone reading the post) "hedges" and you (again, the reader) encounter a negative equity due to your (again, any reader) collection of "hedged" losses, you could have a positive balance and a negative equity, resulting in a margin call.
So you are saying 'hedged loss' keeps on losing until margin call....balance remains the same, yep, equity will be reducing until margin call, yep... so then we are not hedged.
Or perhaps you mean keep hedging, balanced buy/sell, keep trading, keep hedging with a decreasing equity until combined loss = margin call....

So why is that the fault of hedging and not the technique of the trader?
  • #598
  • Sep 17, 2020 6:23pm Sep 17, 2020 6:23pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote} So you are saying 'hedged loss' keeps on losing until margin call....balance remains the same, yep, equity will be reducing until margin call, yep... so then we are not hedged. Or perhaps you mean keep hedging, balanced buy/sell, keep trading, keep hedging with a decreasing equity until combined loss = margin call.... So why is that the fault of hedging and not the technique of the trader?
My question was the result of reading your post #523. You started your post by assuming that traders that use stops lose, resulting in falling balances while somehow benefiting brokers. Then, you state that "hedging" results in profits. Never another loss. Ever. To me, this jump seemed....strange. But one way to never have a loss with "hedging", is to "hedge" all losses, forever, and only realize trades that are in profit. There is, of course, a limit to this. The "hedged" losses won't show up in your balance, but your equity will eventually go negative, if losses exceed your profits. Thus the question about your brokers tolerance for negative equity.

Aside from that explanation, I think the jump you made -- that stops result in losses and "hedge" only result in profits -- is just plain stupid. I mean, just really stupid. Doesn't mean you're stupid, but what you said is really stupid.
  • #599
  • Sep 17, 2020 6:23pm Sep 17, 2020 6:23pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} What happened to the claim that you closed this "hedged" basket with a 10% gain? Did you re-think that? You claimed that your "hedged" basket was in a loss, but then, as the GBP crosses popped lower, you closed with a 10% profit. Now, you say that you were completely "hedged" (and as stated in a loss). We have established to traders only make money on the net position, so if you made money on what were negative "hedges", you had to be net short as the GJ fell, and net by enough to cover your locked in "hedged" losses, plus enough to drive...
I have just come back to the computer and read your previous post which you have since edited as above, trying hard to keep up here I'm supposedly an IDIOT after all haha Now that we are talking in a civil tongue I will attempt to answer your questions as best I can. I confess to not understanding all of your statement but here goes anyway.

Firstly my gain on balance after closing the basket was not 10% but somewhere between 8/9%, this I corrected a few posts up when I realised my error. I am not sure what you mean by re-thinking it? Yes you are CORRECT the hedged basket was in a loss pretty much for all of the last 5 days, as my chart screenshot and account shows I opened BUYS and SELLS within that RANGE during that time spell. As previously said I have been waiting for the market to make it's move one way or another, on this occasion it happened to be down and if you look at the time I took out the additional SELL trades you will see that 2 of the 3 were opened this morning after conferring with the 4hr TIMEFRAME. Call it luck if you like because I DO NOT follow the NEWS.

Again you are CORRECT, I made my profit when the market finally broke out of it's range and that one move was enough to make the 8/9% gain. You are however INCORRECT when you mentioned I was 'fully hedged' I was not (maybe I was not clear before). Look at the balance sheet again and total the trade sizes for both the BUY and SELL trades and you will see that I was indeed NET SHORT at that moment before it broke south.

You have pretty much NAILED it, nothing more to really add. My account balance was approximately £490 last Friday before opening the basket and I eventually closed it out today with a 8/9% increase to the bottom line i.e. current account balance £447

Current open BASKET below.
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  • #600
  • Sep 17, 2020 6:37pm Sep 17, 2020 6:37pm
Just to add to the above you will see that I am trading 3 pairs at a time with this basket (a BASKET within a BASKET haha). I am currently 3 x LONG and 1 x SHORT, I will continue to ADD long positions for as long as this trend holds and eventually close the basket (but ONLY if I am in OVERAL PROFIT) when I get an opposing signal to STOP and REVERSE and/or the 4hr changes from LONG back to SHORT again.

Hope that is clear, if not ask away
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