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Just learned about hedging, does anyone use it for scalping?

  • #441
  • Sep 10, 2020 8:18pm Sep 10, 2020 8:18pm
Quoting Offujimori
{quote}Stochastic could be an example of market time cycle instead of overbought/oversold. Pivot Points could be an example of measuring market strenght instead of support and resistance. i.e.: Bull Trend always break R1s. When the first S1 is broken tells something.

Stoch is a very good trend indicator. I don't use it, but if I have to make a private indicator out of stoch, at the moment, I would use it as a trend indicator only. It offers multiple signals and this is just great for trends.

Situation is similar with pp. I am using these, but never finished my private up-to-date trend version of the pp. PP are great for trend, as they do multiple signals as well, as mentioned by you with the s1 example and then the new s1 and then the next s1, ext.
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #442
  • Sep 10, 2020 9:06pm Sep 10, 2020 9:06pm
Quoting pa18
Let's say your target is 10 pips, as a scalper. Your normal risk per trade is 2%. Don't worry about the RR, scalpers normally aren't but say 10 pip emergency stop. For hedging, you spilt the risk, 1% risk buy, 1% risk sell. You place a perfect hedge, once you open a buy position, a sell position is also opened. It goes up 5, close sell position, let it ride to target. Obviously, lower profits but the point is that it's safer IF the market conditions such as slippage and spread are perfect. Anyone tried? Sounds fun but messy.
I met a man when I was in China that traded something like this. He opened up a buy and sell at the same time. In some ways its actually less like scalping and more like trend following. Cause he didn't have the ability to understand price action and market structure, so it was his way of waiting for a breakout and market follow through. You just have to have the psychological capacity to deal with lots of small losses and less small wins until a big winner comes a long. So 2% risk per trade would be way too high. And his yearly profit wasn't great, but at least he wasn't in the red.

I've never seen a successful hedge trader that uses it when a position goes against them instead of taking the hit, then work their way out of it. Never. Get lucky one or two times, sure. But trading is about the long term and over the long term I have yet to see it. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But it sure ain't common.

I think the main way its used, or at least the method I've run into most often is traders who use it in situations where they open some follow up trades with pending limits set up at minor S/R zones to take small scalps, so small areas that were hedged at these areas. But their main trade remained staying with the trend for the bigger bite. I don't trade like this but I have seen it. And they usually only trade that 1 pair, usually a JPY pair, so they can focus on it.
The best strategy is a profitable one.
  • #443
  • Sep 10, 2020 9:14pm Sep 10, 2020 9:14pm
Quoting MoneyZilla
Stoch is a very good trend indicator. I don't use it, but if I have to make a private indicator out of stoch, at the moment, I would use it as a trend indicator only. It offers multiple signals and this is just great for trends.
Those who learnt the secret of indicators won't tell.

Those who tell indicators are useless don't know shit.

It's a case of a monkey with a iPhone.
Damn it, this banana won't peel how am I suppose to eat it.
Know what you trade
  • #444
  • Sep 10, 2020 9:28pm Sep 10, 2020 9:28pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Those who learnt the secret of indicators won't tell. Those who tell indicators are useless don't know shit.

Yes. Anything that offers multiple signals, just nails the trends.

Even a simple ma cross does that, too. Time above/below is the multiple signal. As a base, time is always a multiple signal.

Another way at looking at ma cross, for example, is chart events that occur above/below the ma cross, to say at least, among so many different sequences that might be in use.

One has to be creative enough and suddenly the free indicators in mt4 happen to be great tools fur gold digging?
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #445
  • Sep 10, 2020 9:40pm Sep 10, 2020 9:40pm
Quoting MoneyZilla
Yes. Anything that offers multiple signals, just nails the trends. Even a simple ma cross does that, too. Time above/below is the multiple signal. As a base, time is always a multiple signal. Another way at looking at ma cross, for example, is chart events that occur above/below the ma cross, to say at least, among so many different sequences that might be in use. One has to be creative enough and suddenly the free indicators in mt4 happen to be great tools fur gold digging?
The good thing is the Mt4 indicators are available on the phone app. Traders can watch the market while getting a blowjob.

Stupids don't know what they are missing.
Know what you trade
  • #446
  • Sep 11, 2020 1:46am Sep 11, 2020 1:46am
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} Stoch is a very good trend indicator.
Stoch is totally useless on trends. Moving average is useless on flat. All oscillators are useless on big moves. Stoch will show you overbought /sold for weeks. And moving average will show you tons of crosses to nowhere if there is a flat on the market.
Observer effect
  • #447
  • Sep 11, 2020 2:06am Sep 11, 2020 2:06am
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} Stoch is totally useless on trends. Moving average is useless on flat. All oscillators are useless on big moves. Stoch will show you overbought /sold for weeks. And moving average will show you tons of crosses to nowhere if there is a flat on the market.

Hmmm. I would buy at stoch 100 and sell at 0. I knew would go misunderstood...

And stoch is definitely a trend killer. In my private version view.

If you wait me to tell you how stoch does this precisely? The wait will be quite long. As it is so simple solution. One just have to go over the available options and at least two of them are nailing each annual trend...

About the ma and the ranges? You are not entirely right. For the bigger part - yes, you are right. However, there is a specific ma (nobody uses here on this forum, except me, it seems so), one for sure, at least one I am using, handles the ranges pretty decently. Sometimes the draw-down is a little heavy, other times it even closes at up to 100 net pips at target. It varys from range to range. At the final break out, it cashes it all on too early.
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #448
  • Sep 11, 2020 3:00am Sep 11, 2020 3:00am
Stoch is TOTALLY useless on trend. MA is useless on flat. They are different types indicators.

It's like speedometer and tachometer. They all show something using the arrow, but you can drive 100 @ 2000 and 20 @ 1000, this is totally different instruments.

What a specific MA? Ma is the average with several types of smoothing or without. Please tell more it is very interesting!
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Observer effect
  • #449
  • Sep 11, 2020 3:10am Sep 11, 2020 3:10am
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} Hmmm. I would buy at stoch 100 and sell at 0. I knew would go misunderstood...
May be buy at 0 and sell on 100? Then it is useless on trend (see previous drawing). If buy at 100 and sell at 0 - you will lose. May be I need to try hedges this way... but

Anyway the topic is about hedges. So the question is: why not to use static steps? For example every 100p up and down? Why use indicator for entry?
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Observer effect
  • #450
  • Sep 11, 2020 3:11am Sep 11, 2020 3:11am
Quoting ryuryu
Stoch is TOTALLY useless on trend. MA is useless on flat. They are different types indicators. It's like speedometer and tachometer. They all show something using the arrow, but you can drive 100 @ 2000 and 20 @ 1000, this is totally different instruments. What a specific MA? Ma is the average with several types of smoothing or without. Please tell more it is very interesting! {image}
Perhaps draw your arrows in the dips and trade long around the alleged oversold areas..
  • #451
  • Sep 11, 2020 3:14am Sep 11, 2020 3:14am
Quoting ryuryu
Stoch is TOTALLY useless on trend. MA is useless on flat. They are different types indicators. It's like speedometer and tachometer. They all show something using the arrow, but you can drive 100 @ 2000 and 20 @ 1000, this is totally different instruments. What a specific MA? Ma is the average with several types of smoothing or without. Please tell more it is very interesting! {image}

It will cost me around £1,000 to prove myself right about the stoch. My own view of the stoch. I just don't need it as it won't do anything my private indies are not nailing already... The dev i work with 6+ yrs already, is something like a demi-god, which comes with a hefty price tag, too.

The ma is just any of the available from the list bellow. It is the period value that makes all the difference when flat and even better when trending.
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Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #452
  • Sep 11, 2020 3:15am Sep 11, 2020 3:15am
Quoting moodybot
{quote} Perhaps draw your arrows in the dips and trade long around the alleged oversold areas..
Please show me an example. You can't use Stoch for entry. Never. Because it is an oscillator. It doesn't work on trend.

This red dots on screenshot are Stoches. So what? You will buy on it or sell? If there is a flat you can buy and sell for sure. But once trend started Stoch become unusable.

BTW here on FF there is a thread where 3 very very good traders were creating the strategy with stoch for 3 or 4 years and failed. Trading made simple - smth like that the thread is.
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Observer effect
  • #453
  • Sep 11, 2020 3:22am Sep 11, 2020 3:22am
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} Please show me an example. You can't use Stoch for entry. Never. Because it is an oscillator. It doesn't work on trend.
I have no intention of using it.
You try it, if it works , report back here, if not then we can assume it didn't..
  • #454
  • Edited 3:34am Sep 11, 2020 3:22am | Edited 3:34am
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} Please show me an example. You can't use Stoch for entry. Never. Because it is an oscillator. It doesn't work on trend.
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Just let the discussion here roll and watch.
It was going pretty well..
  • #455
  • Sep 11, 2020 3:42am Sep 11, 2020 3:42am
Stoch is useless on thrend. MA is useless on flat. Earth is not flat.
Let's return to Hedge discussions.

So why not to use fixed steps? If you don't care about trend and know that movement expands (it is true). So why not just draw zero line, then +100 step up and -100 down limit orders?
Observer effect
  • #456
  • Sep 11, 2020 5:02am Sep 11, 2020 5:02am
This will be my last post, clearly I have nothing to offer here. Hopefully anybody who struggles to GUESS which way the market is headed will give this a go on DEMO. I have given enough examples for anyone who is interested to give it a try, it is very simple really.

Off course take it or leave it, it makes no difference to me. Good luck in your endevours whichever path you decide to take

Final screenshot taken earlier this morning.
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  • #457
  • Sep 11, 2020 5:16am Sep 11, 2020 5:16am
Quoting ryuryu
Stoch is useless on thrend. MA is useless on flat. Earth is not flat. Let's return to Hedge discussions. So why not to use fixed steps? If you don't care about trend and know that movement expands (it is true). So why not just draw zero line, then +100 step up and -100 down limit orders?
Actually in a game of probability, it works like any other method works.
Best is to develop a technique that reads market makers algos. Liquidity providers use algos while brokers use plug-ins to milch he trader cows. If you keep in mind LPs want to make money from spreads and brokers from.frequency of commissions.
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #458
  • Edited 1:15pm Sep 11, 2020 1:03pm | Edited 1:15pm
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} It will cost me around £1,000 to prove myself right about the stoch. My own view of the stoch. I just don't need it as it won't do anything my private indies are not nailing already... The dev i work with 6+ yrs already, is something like a demi-god, which comes with a hefty price tag, too. The ma is just any of the available from the list bellow. It is the period value that makes all the difference when flat and even better when trending. {image}

I`ve been looking at Stochs for a while too...!! I`ve noticed: the end of a range is well shown at Stochs, It seems. The swing(move,leg) that initiates the trend after breaking range has way more pips than the swings(moves,legs) between the range!! So nice. It's a late signal, but very good. Still working on + trendlines + ZZ (some mix with the counting I was doing that you saw)
  • #459
  • Sep 11, 2020 2:44pm Sep 11, 2020 2:44pm
Quoting Offujimori
{quote} I`ve been looking at Stochs for a while too...!! I`ve noticed: the end of a range is well shown at Stochs, It seems. The swing(move,leg) that initiates the trend after breaking range has way more pips than the swings(moves,legs) between the range!! So nice. It's a late signal, but very good. Still working on + trendlines + ZZ (some mix with the counting I was doing that you saw)

ZZ is King! ZZ does few mistakes in a range. Not very costly ones. ZZ is nothing but amazing!

I had my all time absolute record on gold with ZZ! 168 hrs reset. She did something like 2.4k pips in between the buy and the sell signal. Or the highest point from the buy was 2.4k pips. Don't remember. Whatever. I could not believe it. The result on gold was absolutely insane! And it was m1 zz! M1! M1 goes for 2.4k pips on the straight line?!? Crazy!

I hope you nail her. After that, you can accomodate almost any indicator.

Stoch looks amazing to me, too! As a trend indi, one and only! Stoch seems to be nailing the trend so easily... She looks perfect for trend+hedging.

The problem is I am now hating so much this development and the following bug removing work. Really heavily pissed off. I just see the grand potential of Stoch...

Love trading. I am done with developing anything. Will order a translate from mt4 to mt5 and that will be all for me for the next few years, at least.
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #460
  • Sep 11, 2020 2:56pm Sep 11, 2020 2:56pm
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} ZZ is King! ZZ does few mistakes in a range. Not very costly ones. ZZ is nothing but amazing! I had my all time absolute record on gold with ZZ! 168 hrs reset. She did something like 2.4k pips in between the buy and the sell signal. Or the highest point from the buy was 2.4k pips. Don't remember. Whatever. I could not believe it. The result on gold was absolutely insane! And it was m1 zz! M1! M1 goes for 2.4k pips on the straight line?!? Crazy! I hope you nail her. After that, you can accomodate almost any indicator. Stoch looks amazing...
This is really coming out of no where and I really don't know what to say except thank you.
Your posts have changed my life forever and almost no one on this forum understands what the fuck you do.

Cheers
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