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Just learned about hedging, does anyone use it for scalping?

  • #101
  • Sep 2, 2020 8:41am Sep 2, 2020 8:41am
Quoting MoneyZilla
more dumb words
Ahuh. Yes.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #102
  • Sep 2, 2020 8:41am Sep 2, 2020 8:41am
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} Well, my education class continues, obviously... The balance goes -negative. The locked profits grows +positive, a lot more and a lot faster than the account balance goes in a negative. That is why the equity stays locked and from time to time, increases slightly or not so slightly. What is more important, the equity curve does not allow significant losses to alter it. Just the operational tiny draw-down is the only thing that bothers that kind of hedging equity curves... until the next kick in the price is made and more pips/money are being...
Again, wasteful and stupid, and you just proved my point. In my example, if I had "hedged", I would lock in $1,650, at the cost of $28,800 of my free margin. The opportunity cost of that is huge. My equity curve would increase by $1,650, and hold there, and would not benefit from my trading skills until and unless the $28,8000 margin was freed to take on new trades. Wasteful and stupid. As long as you are locking the gain with a "hedge", you have limited the additional trades and earning the wasted margin would make you with additional trades. If I traded like you, I would have $1,650 gain in my account, and $28,800 in margin unavailable to me right now. Instead, I have the $1,650 in my account and have added the $28,800 back to free margin. Your approach is wasteful and stupid, and more importantly, is tactically and strategically inferior. You aren't maximizing profits, you are limiting them.
  • #103
  • Sep 2, 2020 8:46am Sep 2, 2020 8:46am
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} Simple. Here is my live trading example. {image} 23.0 sell lots vs 11.5 buy lots. Equity 353k. Margin 345%. {image} If there are 34.5 buy or sell lots, just one side, the Margin will fell down to around 230% I think. If I add another 11.5 buy lots and now we have 23 sell lots vs 23 buy lots, the Margin will grow up around 450% I think.
what currency is this?
  • #104
  • Sep 2, 2020 8:47am Sep 2, 2020 8:47am
Quoting GEfx
{quote} Again, wasteful and stupid, and you just proved my point. In my example, if I had "hedged", I would lock in $1,650, at the cost of $28,800 of my free margin. The opportunity cost of that is huge. My equity curve would increase by $1,650, and hold there, and would not benefit from my trading skills until and unless the $28,8000 margin was freed to take on new trades. Wasteful and stupid. As long as you are locking the gain with a "hedge", you have limited the additional trades and earning the wasted margin would make you with additional trades....
It is the other way around. How can you grow an account while maintaining constantly and ever increasingly -NEGATIVE BALANCE?

H to L or L to H is my profit, depending on the chosen hedge technique. In some conditions there is 2xH2L as a profit. On a single hedge... Cant believe I am wasting my time with you both!

I can handle everything from you. Don't worry. You are not even a challenge to me...
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #105
  • Sep 2, 2020 8:48am Sep 2, 2020 8:48am
Quoting GEfx
{quote} what currency is this?

USD on the account balance and the pair is gbpusd.
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #106
  • Sep 2, 2020 8:56am Sep 2, 2020 8:56am
Quoting MoneyZilla
Margin 345%.
No, your Margin Level is 345%. Your Margin is something else entirely. Here's a tip: It's in the image you posted.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #107
  • Sep 2, 2020 8:57am Sep 2, 2020 8:57am
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} It is the other way around. How can you grow an account while maintaining constantly and ever increasingly -NEGATIVE BALANCE? H to L or L to H is my profit, depending on the chosen hedge technique. In some conditions there is 2xH2L as a profit. On a single hedge... Cant believe I am wasting my time with you both! I can handle everything from you. Don't worry. You are not even a challenge to me......
Again, you have proved the point I am making. You are wasting margin on the "hedge" and getting nothing in return. You think you are getting something for it, which is pathetic. But in reality, you have margin on 11.5 trades that is getting you nothing. I am amazed that you fail to see that. I think it's pretty obvious that if you had 34 lots instead of 23 running in your favor, you'd be better off. That's the point. You are wasting margin, 34 lots worth of margin, to trade 23 lots. In my mind, that is pretty stupid.

And your free margin is what I am talking about, not the margin level.
  • #108
  • Sep 2, 2020 8:59am Sep 2, 2020 8:59am
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} USD on the account balance and the pair is gbpusd.
Interesting, because in the USA, 34.5 lots on the G$ requires around $124,000 margin.
  • #109
  • Sep 2, 2020 9:11am Sep 2, 2020 9:11am
Quoting GEfx
{quote} Again, you have proved the point I am making. You are wasting margin on the "hedge" and getting nothing in return. You think you are getting something for it, which is pathetic. But in reality, you have margin on 11.5 trades that is getting you nothing. I am amazed that you fail to see that. I think it's pretty obvious that if you had 34 lots instead of 23 running in your favor, you'd be better off. That's the point. You are wasting margin, 34 lots worth of margin, to trade 23 lots. In my mind, that is pretty stupid. And your free margin...

I wanted to show you, how hedging does increase the available margin, it is not wasting it, as you have mentioned it somewhere.

If I have kept the 34.5 buy lots still opened, in this example, I would have faced a loss of nearly 100 pips or so. Instead, I have placed 23 sells out of those 34 buys and will join back the buys when the rate starts moving up again. If the rate does not want to go up or stays in between or moves down? Naturally the 11 buys will become sells. Might be anywhere. It depends on how they will move it. When they retrace it back again, I will hedge. Not knowing if this is a major trend change or not.

So, you have proved nothing so far. You only think you did, but...

And you are attacking my Margin example. Why? Why not attack my hedge example? I am speaking all the time of a hedge set of one buy vs one sell. In a hedge. Why don't you try to STAY FOCUSED on the hedge trading? So you have asked for a Margin example and I have delivered it, but now you think this is a hedger, when it is not an entire hedger, obviously? This is a partial hedger. It is visible.
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #110
  • Sep 2, 2020 9:22am Sep 2, 2020 9:22am
*stomp stomp stomp*

"Why you attack when I say grass is purple and sky is wet? Why you not focus on up is left and down is pineapple!?"

This is the FF I know and loathe. Classic moving of the goalposts. The goalposts of stupid, that is.

Try to address one point of utter stupidity, and all you do is unlock more levels of the same. Pandora's Box of Dumb.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #111
  • Sep 2, 2020 9:28am Sep 2, 2020 9:28am
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} Why don't you try to STAY FOCUSED on the hedge trading? So you have asked for a Margin example and I have delivered it, but now you think this is a hedger, when it is not an entire hedger, obviously? This is a partial hedger. It is visible.
Everyone on FF understands "the hedge". The reason to focus on margin is, that's where the "hedge" strategy meets reality. If someone deposits their hard earned money in an account, that's all they have to trade with. You get that, right? If I can make 30 pips/lot by using $14,400 of my account, instead of using $28,800, that frees up a lot of margin to throw at another opportunity. Isn't that clear to you? Every new trader quickly learns that they must judiciously use their margin account to make money. If I "hedge" a trade, then that money is of no use to me if another opportunity comes along.
  • #112
  • Sep 2, 2020 9:34am Sep 2, 2020 9:34am
I think the bottom line is that hedging won't work if you sell the bottom and buy at the top, So just better to sell at the top....
  • #113
  • Sep 2, 2020 9:46am Sep 2, 2020 9:46am
Well, AFAIK, when you consume margin and then you hedge for the same volume, the "net-position" actually becomes neutral
* (minus commissions and swaps, of course).
  • #114
  • Sep 2, 2020 9:50am Sep 2, 2020 9:50am
I will collect all nucbake's anti-hedge arguments! They are hilarious to say at least! I hope she does not delete them, as if I was her, I would definitely do so...
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #115
  • Sep 2, 2020 9:55am Sep 2, 2020 9:55am
Quoting derekw
I think the bottom line is that hedging won't work if you sell the bottom and buy at the top, So just better to sell at the top....

Yes, highly likely, it is hard to move the sell high up there. It is quite costly to do so. But it can also be very profitable. It all depends on the following movements. Best case scenario is to quickly flip both into the current destination. But this is very questionable, as one needs a decent dominance counter and so far, I have not hear of any at all, to be available anywhere. So, one has to built his/her own, in order to make hedging work...

But, even this can be saved with hedging. I would say, this is where one begins the hedging journey. In a bad situation like the above-mentioned...
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #116
  • Sep 2, 2020 10:24am Sep 2, 2020 10:24am
Quoting GEfx
{quote} Everyone on FF understands "the hedge". The reason to focus on margin is, that's where the "hedge" strategy meets reality. If someone deposits their hard earned money in an account, that's all they have to trade with. You get that, right? If I can make 30 pips/lot by using $14,400 of my account, instead of using $28,800, that frees up a lot of margin to throw at another opportunity. Isn't that clear to you? Every new trader quickly learns that they must judiciously use their margin account to make money. If I "hedge" a trade, then that money...
Don't even argue with him. Leave him to his faith. Any so called trader that doesn't understand that hedging is stupid is not worth discussing with. It just shows the level of amateurishness of the concerned.
When you see it, BET big.
  • #117
  • Sep 2, 2020 10:38am Sep 2, 2020 10:38am
Quoting Rennaissance
{quote} Don't even argue with him. Leave him to his faith. Any so called trader that doesn't understand that hedging is stupid is not worth discussing with. It just shows the level of amateurishness of the concerned.
If you are right, sweetie, please explain this, as he did not bother to answer this one, too?

How can you grow an account while maintaining constantly and ever increasingly -NEGATIVE BALANCE?

Now, let me hear your adult trader's thoughts and above all - EXPLANATIONS. Danke shuine!
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #118
  • Sep 2, 2020 10:42am Sep 2, 2020 10:42am
Quoting Rennaissance
{quote} Don't even argue with him. Leave him to his faith. Any so called trader that doesn't understand that hedging is stupid is not worth discussing with. It just shows the level of amateurishness of the concerned.
Excuse me, but in a game full of losers with unverified claims (proclaiming the same kind of vague/failed hypothesis [far from proper theories] again and again after many years, as if they were true "experts"), the very few people that think differently (or even contrary) from the rest, outside from the herd, are the only ones that nowadays tend to caught my attention the most.

* I'm not including you in such category, GEfx; in case of any doubt. I'm talking in general.
  • #119
  • Sep 2, 2020 10:48am Sep 2, 2020 10:48am
Good work MoneyZilla.

Now, my only question is that why you didn't apply this method to that contest a couple of years ago?
  • #120
  • Sep 2, 2020 11:35am Sep 2, 2020 11:35am
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} How can you grow an account while maintaining constantly and ever increasingly -NEGATIVE BALANCE
I'm not sure why this question is relevant to "hedging" or what has been discussed here. Again, you toss up bullshit and unrelated topics like this just to deflect from the actual discussion -- "hedging" is stupid and inefficient.
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