Becoming A TopStep Trader 2020

During the covid crash, futures on the mini lot size were a rollercoaster and a lottery. Forex, was easier to control risk as you could go from a standard 1.0 lot down to 0.01 lots if needs be.
During the summer doldrums, the futures markets are still moving with some speed, so a micro lot can make you $150 in a few minutes whereas trading forex could have you stuck in a trade for a couple of days if the market gets pulled from underneath you.

Futures, allows a trader to see the centralized volume, the Icebergs, the stop runs. Forex, you're relying on intuition as much as anything. Seeing the market reveal itself after the fact with the shape of the market structure, candlesticks etc. With the futures you can see the sitting volume, and in some cases, you can see the algos pushing price to those levels, or stopping momentum into sideways channels - in real-time.

I feel more comfortable trading intraday with the futures and happy to take larger swings in forex. H4 and above for Forex is definitely the way to go imho.

With Topstep, you only get a live account if you can maintain discipline. It is the only reason I am trading with them. I trained with Amplify Trading in London hoping to get taught how to read a ladder in the futures markets, unfortunately, they let us loose on a Saxo forex platform, trading CFD's. with a 5 pip spread. In a way, I am glad they didn't train me on futures as they would probably have ruined my feeling towards them. I have been forced to find out how the markets really work and now I am more confident in my trading. I am still not very disciplined but with confidence that I can create alpha every day, the discipline is coming and the need to hit the ball out the park is diminishing and being replaced with consistency and sniper-esque attitude.
Not many places in the Forex world could enforce discipline in the same way as Topstep but I am sure there are companies out there that get close or maybe do it better. I look forward to not needing them.

I plan to learn how to algo trade next, as it is the way forward for sure. But I am comfortable with trading Forex and Futures side by side in a discretionary way. Futures is a relatively low cost way to trade with a lot of leverage, so should not be taken lightly.

Yes, if you pass the 2 step trading challenge, you then have an option for a 3rd step to make $5k or you could go straight into a live money environment.
They pay out $k's each month in trading profits.

Thank you NevFX for your reply, much appreciated.

I will follow along your journey trading the futures market as much as you make it available. I considered a few times moving to futures for the same reasons you described, but somehow in my road thru forex I developed a sense of PA and market itself (stop hunts, pulls, trapping retails etc.) and started working for me from that point, fully discretionary, no systems and such. This although came along some thousands of hours of screen time. Still, i am thinking if i can manage now forex with this handicap of no DOM, no real volume etc, i wonder sometimes how will futures work for me, or other centralized markets, for example will i make more money, it will be less demanding from a psychological stand point (cause some times it's extremely exhausting trading forex) and so on.

There is truly nothing different between the PA of a GBPUSD or an ES chart, though there are nuances based around market participants interacting en masse at certain times of the day. The DOM is almost impossible to learn in a way which traders used 10 years ago, as the algo's flicker the numbers a lot quicker than say a bunch of manipulative day traders. Reading the Flash Crash made me realise that it was a fools quest to try and learn from old manuals etc. What I like using is the new volume indicators that show sitting orders and display like a heatmap. And I only use them after I found some PA on the chart that I am interested in. I have found my confluence. I got frustrated with the inconsistency of Fibs, Stochs, EW and Gann etc. Divergences in RSI and MACD. Naked trading also felt like there was something missing and now I know what it is for me. As I could never understand why certain PA would work more than others and then sometimes not at all. Turns out , if there is no volume at the S/R etc. they are not valid.
But I am sure if I were to do a comparison, I could probably say that 80% of the wins comes from PA that I have learned and the Volume stuff is just a support I am using.

Trading a large account size (buying power) is what I want ultimately and I like the idea of risking other peoples money more than risking my own.

The leverage is insane in futures and a 1 lot mini contract can net $1000 in less than 10 seconds at the US open. Problem is you can lose $2000 just as quick. Micros, are more manageable and allow for scaling in and out. Not sure if I could say Futures are less demanding from the important Psych pov but I like having something solid to work work with and it seems to be working for me now. The hunt for the none existent holy grail is over and I can concentrate on doing 'Me' and getting consistency.

Thank you again for all the information provided . Much appreciated. It seems we had very similar roads and final conclusions especially about the holy grail and indicators or other theories )

I will search around for some futures brokers and offers to get a feel for it and better compare it to FX as far as leverage, costs go and so on. Any recommendation from you is very welcomed.

About the Dom, if there are algos and such that manage the orders in such a way to make it less visible for the average trader, do you think that for example, in the right context, we can develop a "feel" for it and uncover their hand like we usually do with PA ? One good example for me in FX is like this, I have context around the trade, what happened so far and what SM accumulated most probably so far, where are the retailers entry and floating stops, are they in profit to some degree, where are big orders unfilled judging by the structure of the market, if all fits I have a trade so to speak, I summarized a bit the process. So, If I were to trade the futures market, alongside all that, I will furthermore have volume and dom. Now that is an even bigger edge. But, If there are algos that spoof etc, do we still manage to make use of all the additional information in the futures market ? Objectively. Cause, if we can manage to get a feel for PA as we get more experienced than, we should get the same about the Dom or other aspects even with all the algos and fakeys. That or we just have 2 additional things to take into account that leads to an even more complicated trading process and more interpreting exhaustion. What is you finding on this Nev ?

[quote]do you think that for example, in the right context, we can develop a "feel" for it and uncover their hand like we usually do with PA ?[/quote

Attached is a screengrab of what I wrote on my LinkedIn page last Friday (14th Aug). In the idea, I write that 3350 and 3400 are on the table. If I had used my usual PA techniques I would not have been so accurate on the 3350. However, the 00, 50, 20 & 80 levels are very usual turning points. So seeing sitting orders on the DOM or in a Volume Heatmap at those levels is my first port of call. If I can find what I deem to be a Supply or Demand zone, a psych level and sitting volume on the DOM etc. I am more than ready to take a trade.

So yes, you can get a feel for what the DOM is saying.

The next thing I feel traders look at on the DOM (and something I am not very good at) is, waiting for a level to be reached and then for the buyers and sellers to go at it. In a down move, when you see the price stop and buyers keep absorbing those that are "hitting the bid", some traders can trade off the DOM and see this happening, when the price and volume signal that the sellers have given up.
I fail every time to spot it on the DOM and I am also of the opinion that it is better to see the bottom of the range to be taken out and then for prices to come back into the range. This is where seeing a Stop Run or Iceberg order indicator is useful for me. Some traders see it on the DOM but there are easier ways for me to see it.

The NASDAQ does the fake out of a range a lot and really quickly, I need to see colours and ranges displayed graphically. Seeing numbers and I go snow blind or number dyslexic. The algos move prices to levels, push through the levels only to do a 180º in a milisecond and then be up 15 points before you can press the buy.
However, I know of traders that have thresholds for each market, that if they see a certain amount of volume sat on the DOM and then a certain amount of volume in the Time and Sales they can tell instantly whether the threshold exceeds the norm and indicates an Iceberg or Stop run. I can't. But knowing that it happens and seeing it displayed graphically help me.

If you feel you can judge where the big orders are going to be sitting in FX, the same structures appear in Futures. You just get to see that there are big orders actually there. Which is a bit like clearing the steam off a mirror to reveal what you already knew to be there.

It could be viewed that adding Volume, DOM and having to judge exhaustion or absorption is adding layers of complication, but I am finding that if I spot a level on the charts and then just wait for the actual orders and traders to appear at those levels on my chart that I have previously identified, gives me less complication. You just have to use it very selectively imho, unless of course you are a rapid scalper and then you need some sort of higher intelligence than me.

Ok, so, this makes totally sense for me as you described it and thank you for all the information Nev. Than I can conclude we do have a further edge in a centralized market. I can see you judge pretty objectively and what you know you know and where you are yet to learn you know as well. Respect for that. I will follow along your journey and I will start documenting a bit more about Futures markets. I will search for some brokers to see what I find good to start with in the near future.

Keep in touch and wish you a greet week!

Todays plan was to buy the VWAP, i got some partial trades in and then got stopped at BE.
Then the idea was to buy at previous supports but they gave way to the weeks low area, which then got bought up again.

FOMC still to come this week, so although I think this goes higher, I am taking my profits and waiting on the sidelines

These were my levels for the day.

I hit my daily profit target but what a cluster f*k of a day. It is often the case that a Big up is followed by a Big down and then a Big sideways. Today we had the Big up in Extended trading hours and then essentially a sideways. So annoying. However, it means I have something to work on. $200 in less trades in less time tomorrow.

These are the levels i'll trade towards from tomorrow. Not expecting anything dramatic but the market has its eyes on these.

Trend box completed, High Vol targets not quite met yet. Maybe the price action will follow this course.

Overleveraged at the start of the session, then got caught on a couple of BE trades rather taking profits.
Had to fight to the death and luckily my analysis paid off in the end to get me back to BE for the day.
Wider stops would have been useful, but the first few trades where I thought I had a set up, I didn't. Put me in the hole and then that meant the stops had to tighten up. Or I could have closed for a loss on the day and managed risk that way.
Will do better tomorrow.



3440 was interesting as the lot size signaled that was the sort of level price would be probably settling around.

Todays trade plan

target hit

All went exactly to plan, apart from the bit where the market dips down and gives me an entry FML.
was able to make $90 and happy to be +ve but what a complete miss.

After the FED talk today this is my current trading plan

I am trading 2 micros, so take the number of trades and divide by 2 and you get a fairer rep of how busy I was today.

Too much going on and a lot of rotations around volume, meant that I was in and out a lot, more than I wished for.
However, hit the daily target and can live to fight another day. On Micros.
It takes longer on MES but I guess if I can do $200 a day on MES consistently, transferring back to ES will put me back into $2k days potential. Which is where we want to be. Eventually.

I wish you could do TopStep with Sierra Charts.

Thank you for sharing your journey.

I think you used to be able to.
Not so long ago TST stopped using Tradingview, but they worked that out and now you can use Tradingview again.
Maybe Sierra charts will come back.

Todays trading plan

Todays trade on the ES

Finished for the day and the week. Hit double my daily target so , don't want to give that back. Plus 3500 could be the chop line for the rest of the day, who knows???

Slow day today as London was on Bank Hols.
Decided to start the week off on Micros as I wasn't sure if we would get some directional moves.

Daily chart is over extended to the upside, so shorted the MES but had to be AFK at the start of the US session so missed the spike down, though after the grind before hand I may have missed it even if I were by my monitors.

We are moving away from H4 demand, but I can wait for a new long as I am still thinking the daily could do with a healthy pull back.