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vsa with Malcolm

  • #33,281
  • Jul 9, 2020 7:51pm Jul 9, 2020 7:51pm
@Gauer

I use cumulative delta, but its not show on the charts. About the footprint chart, I dont use them to make entries, but I think they are helpful to manage the trade after you enter the trade

About the comments shows on the chart, its not always look like this, sometimes you ill see charts that the price and the delta doesnt match...

Also started to test market depth this week to see if they make any sense... market depth study shows pending orders on the book directly on the chart, same as bookmap for example
  • #33,282
  • Jul 9, 2020 8:45pm Jul 9, 2020 8:45pm
Quoting Cyberforex
yesterday was easy ... trading zone was very clear, so compare to today situation it is totally different you have still long bias but the price far above your ideal trading zone ... so you have the choice waiting the price to go in your zone where you are comfortable to go long (as trend follower) or act like professional trader (just in my dream ... lol) which manipulate the price to go in the zone where you will put your long position and attract the people to go short and if most people are going short then you will go long .... lol ... {image}...
all my positions closed successfully ... it was interesting to act like smart money adding small shorts all the way up as I believe that the price will not go up any further based on my VSA analysis ... just learning acting like that ... still far far away to be professional trader ... lol

here is interesting video how to manipulate the price from Jim Cramer as Hedge manager ...

Inserted Video
  • #33,283
  • Edited 10:58pm Jul 9, 2020 9:17pm | Edited 10:58pm
After successfully manipulated the price to go down ... just kidding ...lol... I'm still long bias and now it is interesting because the price is in the trading zone where i want to go long but I'm nobody so i prefer to wait what the professional london trader will do and i will just act accordingly ...it could be that smart money will bring price go down further .... but I still prefer long bias ... lets see ...

Here is GBPUSD H1 and H4 (target).

Maybe i am wrong ....
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  • #33,284
  • Jul 9, 2020 10:16pm Jul 9, 2020 10:16pm
Quoting odines
What about order flow tools... I think they are really helpful.
I'm a big fan of OrderFLow Analysis. Please keep the charts and discussion coming.

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Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #33,285
  • Jul 10, 2020 2:37am Jul 10, 2020 2:37am
Quoting Cyberforex
After successfully manipulated the price to go down ... just kidding ...lol... I'm still long bias and now it is interesting because the price is in the trading zone where i want to go long but I'm nobody so i prefer to wait what the professional london trader will do and i will just act accordingly ...it could be that smart money will bring price go down further .... but I still prefer long bias ... lets see ... Here is GBPUSD H1 and H4 (target). Maybe i am wrong .... {image} {image}
My first long GU position ... lets see ... ( I post it almost in real time in my thread)

maybe i'm wrong ....
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  • #33,286
  • Jul 10, 2020 5:36am Jul 10, 2020 5:36am
Quoting odines
@Gauer I use cumulative delta, but its not show on the charts. About the footprint chart, I dont use them to make entries, but I think they are helpful to manage the trade after you enter the trade About the comments shows on the chart, its not always look like this, sometimes you ill see charts that the price and the delta doesnt match... Also started to test market depth this week to see if they make any sense... market depth study shows pending orders on the book directly on the chart, same as bookmap for example

Hi. Market Depth/DOM trading is another thing I looked into and could not believe how people can trade using that. Why would you create a mental chart in your head watching those numbers if you have a freaking charting software that does it for you beautifully? Watching those numbers flashing/changing every second the whole day, going up and down: crazy people thing, some math savant Rain Man kind of people thing perhaps. I would certainly have a stroke after a couple of months trying to do that . Not to mention this kind of analysis makes you tired very fast, you are forcing your brain to use process power to analyze stuff that won´t give you any edge. You wanna work smarter, not harder. For example, a simple HLC bar chart gives you 3 bits of information. A candlestick gives you 7 (open, close, high, low, wick size, body size, body color). You open a chart to look at 150 - 200 bars usually. On HLC chart your brain is processing 600 bits of information, in candlesticks 1400, more than double. Add to that your footprint charts, DOM, and whatever, you gonna get tired pretty fast after a couple of hours. You wanna save energy, keep focus on what matters. Candles, for example, won´t give you any edge in VSA, there is no point in knowing the open price , or color of bodies, et... The DOM trading, all those orders there are not real, are potential orders, a lot of spoofing. Real orders are the ones that happened, so if you wanna go that route, stick with the footprint.

There is no better data than HLC bar, volume and structure for VSA. Why Tom Williams and David Weis used and teach only with them? Dr. Gary also uses only that and he said that he tried everything already too, different combinations of this stuff, and in the end always came back to the classic price bar/volume/structure analysis. I am pretty sure they all looked into this stuff and saw no edge, otherwise it would have been implemented. VSA is relative analysis comparing size of bars, their volumes, size of the up moves and down moves and their volumes, all under the lenses of the three laws: Cause and Effect, Effort Vs Result, Supply x Demand.

The only reason I use volume profile in congestion ranges is because the high volume nodes give a strong obstacle so, they are structure (in the same level of supply;demand lines, channels; S/R), you then wanna see price bar x volume relationship when price hit those areas. And market profile analysis gives you a general idea of where value is developing and market wanna go when you compare value areas.

If you can come up with a way to explain the footprint charts under VSA terms and it works for you, by all means do that.

Best regards
  • #33,287
  • Jul 10, 2020 10:22am Jul 10, 2020 10:22am
Quoting Cyberforex
{quote} My first long GU position ... lets see ... ( I post it almost in real time in my thread) maybe i'm wrong .... {image}
first target hit at 1.2657 ... i think, GU still has potential to go to 1.2786 (maybe next week) ... lets see ...

btw today signal was clear adding long positions all the way up to the target ....

happy nice weekend all ....
  • #33,288
  • Edited 1:18pm Jul 10, 2020 10:57am | Edited 1:18pm
Quote of the day :

"The goal of successful trader is to make the best trades. Money is secondary. " - Alexander Elder

Meaning : A quote to remind us to focus on getting the trade to work first. Money is the reward, an outcome of a successful trade. Thinking solely about the reward will cloud our judgement.

In my learning process I'm trying to have a bias (trading plan) on every single day before trading. I want to make sure that I understand the price movement. If my trading plan goes wrong it means i still don't understand how to read the chart correctly ... its not about money its about learning how to read the chart correctly

still in learning process ....never ending .....

Happy weekend
  • #33,289
  • Jul 10, 2020 4:16pm Jul 10, 2020 4:16pm
Quoting Gauer
{quote} Hi. Market Depth/DOM trading is another thing I looked into and could not believe how people can trade using that. Why would you create a mental chart in your head watching those numbers if you have a freaking charting software that does it for you beautifully? Watching those numbers flashing/changing every second the whole day, going up and down: crazy people thing, some math savant Rain Man kind of people thing perhaps. I would certainly have a stroke after a couple of months trying to do that . Not to mention...
I was not talking about price ladder when I said market depth.. I know some ppl that use price ladder but like you said it moves to fast for me, not my style aswell

Was talking about a study that display pending orders directly on the chart, like this for example:

Inserted Video


Still testing this, but like I said I dont ill use it for entries... its just shows a potential level analyse the price bar x voluem relationship when price hit those areas
  • #33,290
  • Jul 11, 2020 12:17am Jul 11, 2020 12:17am
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  • #33,291
  • Jul 11, 2020 6:30am Jul 11, 2020 6:30am
Sorry guys I see you are posting trading ideas/analysis but I also see these instruments aren't spot forex. What utility could this bring to people who trade only forex?
There is no try
  • #33,292
  • Jul 11, 2020 6:46am Jul 11, 2020 6:46am
Quoting Wise-Jedi
Sorry guys I see you are posting trading ideas/analysis but I also see these instruments aren't spot forex. What utility could this bring to people who trade only forex?

I posted US500 which is the forex broker version of the SP500, but it is exactly the same thing...

There is no difference in price bar/volume between spot and futures, comparing my charts I will say it varies between 97% - 99% correlation. I can make currency futures analysis and take the trades in spot nicely, or vice versa.

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  • #33,293
  • Edited 8:09am Jul 11, 2020 7:42am | Edited 8:09am
Quoting Gauer
{quote} I posted US500 which is the forex broker version of the SP500, but it is exactly the same thing... There is no difference in price bar/volume between spot and futures, comparing my charts I will say it varies between 97% - 99% correlation. I can make currency futures analysis and take the trades in spot nicely, or vice versa. {image} {image}
nice comparison. please share brief H1, M5 comparisons for major forex pairs at your ease. i would like to see the difference between that surrogate volume and futures market and to see if it really has any advantage.
  • #33,294
  • Jul 11, 2020 8:30am Jul 11, 2020 8:30am
Quoting attique08
{quote} nice comparison. please share brief H1, M5 comparisons for major forex pairs at your ease. i would like to see the difference between that surrogate volume and futures market and to see if it really has any advantage.
Sure I will post a couple more charts later along with yesterday´s SP EOD analysis.
  • #33,295
  • Jul 11, 2020 11:11am Jul 11, 2020 11:11am
Hey guys. Some days ago I asked where are the best places to begin with VSA, I received two main suggestion:

- Master the markets, which I found really useful. I think one of the most useful books on trading I've ever read.
- Trades about to happen, I read 20 pages and I closed the book after read this: "I cannot stress enough the importance of drawing lines all over your charts".

That sentence stinks of classic fake-mentor guru, I searched for him on google and I found the classic "buy my mentorship" website. Sorry I'm out. I don't even understand why people continue to suggest these useless books.

Please someone have some concrete suggestion of what to study after "Master the markets"?

P.S: sorry if I may sounded a bit harsh... but I'm tired of wasting money on useless books.
There is no try
  • #33,296
  • Jul 11, 2020 11:42am Jul 11, 2020 11:42am
Quoting Wise-Jedi
Hey guys. Some days ago I asked where are the best places to begin with VSA, I received two main suggestion: - Master the markets, which I found really useful. I think one of the most useful books on trading I've ever read. - Trades about to happen, I read 20 pages and I closed the book after read this: "I cannot stress enough the importance of drawing lines all over your charts". That sentence stinks of classic fake-mentor guru, I searched for him on google and I found the classic "buy my mentorship" website. Sorry I'm out. I don't even understand...

Blasphemy !

Mate, you can´t judge the book by a single sentence. David Weis is one of the most knowledgeable Wyckoff specialists still alive. He mentored Dr. Gary Dayton. This book is at the same level of Master the Markets, just read it. He is not a "fake guru" nor he claims to be a guru.

To be honest I am always drawing and erasing lines all over the chart, just check some of my posts and you will see a criss cross of pitchforks, support and resistance and etc... The thing is that you have to find an area of interest in the chart and perform a reverse engineering of sorts, then you start drawing lines to see which one captures the frequency of price the best, and this is a continuous process of drawing and erasing. So I don´t understand why you disregard this so much. You NEED the lines, after all VSA requires structure so you can analyze price behavior when price reach them. In David Weis book there is even a map of where are the best places to "fish" for trades on the structure.
  • #33,297
  • Jul 11, 2020 12:08pm Jul 11, 2020 12:08pm
Quoting attique08
{image}

Great analysis. For sh*ts and giggles, I created a chart of this same time frame. I typically show charts of the ES or CL, but this is a forex chart. Which means, the volume is tick volume. Of course, we know tick volume works (and was preferred by Tom).

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(1) From a Volume Spread Analysis (VSA) perspective, this is a wide spread UP bar on Yao Ming (massive) volume. VSA tells us that Markets do not like wide spread high volume UP bars as these bars must contain selling by the Smart Money. Accordingly, we see this as a Supply bar that needs to be confirmed with the next bar DOWN.

From an OrderFlow perspective, this is a Climber. A Climber is a Buying Aggression bar (Demand). Buyers are enthusiastic and aggressively entering the Market with "at the Market" orders. This interval represents a material change in the Market as price is aggressively moving from below the Moving Averages to above them.

(2) After seeing some signs of weakness, we see a wide spread DOWN bar closing on or near its low on volume less than the previous two bars. This is No Selling Pressure. While this interval is a Drifter or Selling Aggression bar, the low volume tells us that this bar ultimately represents Weak Supply.

(3) A narrow range DOWN bar on volume less than the previous two bars. This is a Test. When we see a Test, our first question must be, "What is being tested?". In this instance, there are three things being tested: 1. The massive volume UP bar. Note that the Test is back into the range of this bar; 2. The previous NSP bar; and 3. The Volume Value Area Moving Average.

(a) The next interval is UP and confirms the Test. We note that this bar closes above the Volume Value Area Moving Average and above the Trigger Zone (H). We can get long on the close of this bar/open of the next.

(4) This is an increasing range UP bar that closes on or near its high on increasing volume. This is Demand. This is the 0200 hrs bar, which I believe is the London Open.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #33,298
  • Jul 11, 2020 12:58pm Jul 11, 2020 12:58pm
Quoting Gauer
The only reason I use volume profile in congestion ranges is because the high volume nodes give a strong obstacle so, they are structure (in the same level of supply;demand lines, channels; S/R), you then wanna see price bar x volume relationship when price hit those areas. And market profile analysis gives you a general idea of where value is developing and market wanna go when you compare value areas....
Another viable way to use Volume Profile is to set your trading bias. When the Institutional Auctions is UP, which means the Market is finding VALUE higher, only take Longs. And when the Institutional Auction is DOWN, which means the Market is finding VALUE lower, only take Shorts.

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Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #33,299
  • Jul 11, 2020 1:17pm Jul 11, 2020 1:17pm
Quoting Wise-Jedi
...I read 20 pages and I closed the book after read this: "I cannot stress enough the importance of drawing lines all over your charts". That sentence stinks of classic fake-mentor guru, I searched for him on google and I found the classic "buy my mentorship" website. Sorry I'm out.
David Weis is the real deal. He is one of the most accomplished Wyckoffians around today.

With that said, I too hate drawing lines on my charts. "Which point do you connect?" " Is that a deep enough retracement to draw FIBbs?" It is and now it's too late to draw it. LOL.

FIBbing the Ultra High Volume bar, or in my case, the most recent AGGRESSION bar with climatic volume solves my issues. I always know what and when to FIB. And I only end up with 5 lines: The main three are the Trigger Number H and L and HB. Plus the two-quarter lines.

BTW, I haven't read David's book, but I suspect he was mainly talking about identifying the waves by drawing lines over the price bars.

This is MBOX Wave, but you get the idea:

Inserted Video
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #33,300
  • Edited 2:45pm Jul 11, 2020 2:07pm | Edited 2:45pm
@Hidden Gap

The thing with the lines is that, as I said, you must have an area of interest to draw them, otherwise you have infinite lines that you can draw.

Now, more people can play this game , I also made annotated charts of the same area of the 1H GBPUSD chart:

With regular volume and peak indicator:

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With Weis Wave and Cumulative Delta:

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Nuances in cumulative delta showing how price was gonna go up:

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Another nuance, when I see inside bars after a strong move, I like to see this:

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