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Sam Seiden Goes DOWN

  • #161
  • Apr 10, 2020 2:55pm Apr 10, 2020 2:55pm
I wonder how they manage to get so many customers to their services... Google Adds? Telemarketing?

Never put your money/time in 1 forex strategy. Let's say there is a strategy with an average of X% profitable deals in 10 years. There exists statistical fluctuation around that average number. It means there will be periods (several months or even years) when strategy won't work. And periods when it perfectly works. Here an example of an EA for USDJPY (working on open prices only - so 20 years history with precise data):

Attached Image


Here we can see a lot of drawdown periods which last about 1 year. But in the longterm it still is profitable. So when someone picks up "any strategy" and starts using it at the beginning of "drawdown year" - after X months he quit because don't see the bigger picture.

Investors never rely on "1 horse"... diversification is the key. Any bank or hedge fund have teams of analysts... teams of EAs coders... not all wins... but when sum all performance - then there are winners who compensate losers. That's how it works in the longterm.
  • #162
  • Apr 10, 2020 3:35pm Apr 10, 2020 3:35pm
Quoting GMD
{quote} Lol now I realized I got in a very sensible thread... how I dare to talk badly about Supply and Demand Zones... oh noo... Sam Saiden is being charged for scamming... Yet so many here saying I am the silly one.. and angry one I am done here.. Have fun with your fairy tale guys... the holy grail is waiting for you at the end.. hang tight!!
GMD, I have nothing to do with the S/D method of trading or Sam Saiden. My bread and butter are Elliott waves/harmonic patterns and range trading. U can see my posts in my profile...I hope you won't dig out Elliott, Gann, Wyckoff, Livermore, Dow, Schabacker, and others from their graves to prove that no one can trade successfully based on their theories...You know well that 1 out of 10 traders is profitable, do I care if you include me in this group? Absolutely not. You can think of me whatever you desire it doesn't make any difference to me. I am not here to force my "wisdom" on anyone, I am here for interaction and it doesn't make me angry if people see things differently, they are entitled to their opinions. I can agree with them or not, but I won't call them names.
The fact is that my buy/sell zones are covered most of the time by S/D zones...https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...1#post12282151
Good luck with your trading.
Always trade your own plan...I don't provide trading signals.
  • #163
  • Apr 10, 2020 3:43pm Apr 10, 2020 3:43pm
Back from working out in my house, have the small gym in the basement.

Either way, no one is defending Sam and the company. S&D strategy works. If it does not work for you, find something else. Leaving this thread. Trade safe and have a good weekend. Happy Easter.
  • #164
  • Apr 10, 2020 3:44pm Apr 10, 2020 3:44pm
Quoting GMD
{quote} Yeah.. I trade micro lot.. But you see?? I talk.. but I have the guts to show what I do.. 37 days TE.. still I have the guts to show what I do.. day by day.. you can judge me... You are here talking about something that comes from Sam Saiden, defending his theory.. proven to be a scammer.. So.. am I the crazy one?
Not defending Sam, I trade my own strategy. You take care. Trade safe.
  • #165
  • Apr 10, 2020 4:08pm Apr 10, 2020 4:08pm
Quoting Techanalyst
I also do not understand, why many people would give $5,000, $15,000 or even $50,000 throughout years to Sam company to learn how to trade. I mean come on where is the logic there. If after investing $5,000 into education and you did not get it, maybe go back to the same notes, go online, search, try it on demo, open a live account and trade micro lots until you are profitable on a monthly basis. I do not understand people sometimes at all.
Do not look for logic anywhere, its hard to find. Its like paying $400k to study at some prestigious university and then end up paying off the debt for 20 years. Today everything is about marketing, to find something with the least possible value and sell it for the most possible amount of money.
Everyone can see the chart, but only a few can actually read it.
  • #166
  • Apr 10, 2020 4:18pm Apr 10, 2020 4:18pm
Those who can, do; those who can't, teach.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #167
  • Apr 10, 2020 4:36pm Apr 10, 2020 4:36pm
I doubt it’s possible to be taught to trade.
  • #168
  • Apr 10, 2020 7:39pm Apr 10, 2020 7:39pm
Quoting Asw
I doubt it’s possible to be taught to trade.
The fact remains most traders that get taught or learn Price Action strategy's will just end up losing.
The traders who get taught or learn Price Mechanics of Order flow will understand the market better and normally end up winning.
There is a major different between the two and price mechanics does explain why the market does what it does.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #169
  • Apr 10, 2020 7:45pm Apr 10, 2020 7:45pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} The fact remains most traders that get taught or learn Price Action strategy's will just end up losing. The traders who get taught or learn Price Mechanics of Order flow will understand the market better and normally end up winning. There is a major different between the two and price mechanics does explain why the market does what it does.
I agree.

Price action is another meaningless jargon creation. It's the most used word in forex trading that carries no meaningful definition.
Know what you trade
  • #170
  • Apr 10, 2020 8:04pm Apr 10, 2020 8:04pm
Quoting Asw
I doubt it’s possible to be taught to trade.
Based on "supply and demand", "support and resistance" and "price action" which indisputably lacks properly defined and quantifiable objective metrics, your statement has to be true.
Know what you trade
  • #171
  • Apr 10, 2020 10:38pm Apr 10, 2020 10:38pm
I abhor those who sell systems that are truly BS and take sometimes large amounts from the unsuspecting. I was a lifetime member of James 16 private group which is now gone. I called out Jim in a big way on his thread here at FF. Not because of the methods but because of his unverifiable claims. He banned me from the thread and the private forum but had to refund every dime. He did so voluntarily. I was a follower of Mike (MBQB11) and actually was profitable. Let me be clear I was not questioning the trading methods but rather Jims claims of being profitable. I also called out Mike with similar results. I’ve never blamed my failures on anyone except myself. I have in several instances demanded evidence that something works and I’m not talking about some of the very basic concepts such as s/r, s/d and price action that many are trashing but that in fact are valid but rather those with systems usually based on custom indicators or outlandish combinations of indis.

Here, Its interesting many are using Sam Siedens well deserved calling out by the feds to demonize s/d or anything vaguely resembling it. S/R and even price action are now in the opinion of many in this thread bunk but only because of what has happened to Sam. Understand that the feds are not going after Sam because of s/d but that doesnt matter to many here. Whats important to many here is to be able to blame trading failure using s/d, s/r, PA or anything similar for that failure. Hmmmm seems like Sams potential demise is the perfect scapegoat. I was going to say Sam is a real loser but seems like theres a bunch more losers and they all just admitted it right here.
  • #172
  • Apr 11, 2020 12:15am Apr 11, 2020 12:15am
Quoting joyny
I wonder how they manage to get so many customers to their services... Google Adds? Telemarketing?
Promise of regular income if you 'master' their method of trading.
Lifetime weekly courses and live trading with 'pros' (XLT)

Their 'instructors' give students the impression they know what they are doing.
'For the market to work, it needs people who think that they can beat it.'
  • #173
  • Edited 2:06am Apr 11, 2020 1:24am | Edited 2:06am
It's really funny how I got banned from those threads promoting his stuff because I stated that the guru is a scammer and a fraud.
Now think about this
Who are the other "Sam Seiden" right now ?
And, is it not obvious that what he did (or something similar) is the only way to make tons of money in retail forex ?
  • #174
  • Apr 11, 2020 1:58am Apr 11, 2020 1:58am
Yes,
sooner or later the trader will be forced to use common sense.
and then you don’t fall into all sorts of traps.
  • #175
  • Apr 11, 2020 2:30am Apr 11, 2020 2:30am
Quoting Winston Reed
I abhor those who sell systems that are truly BS and take sometimes large amounts from the unsuspecting. I was a lifetime member of James 16 private group which is now gone. I called out Jim in a big way on his thread here at FF. Not because of the methods but because of his unverifiable claims. He banned me from the thread and the private forum but had to refund every dime. He did so voluntarily. I was a follower of Mike (MBQB11) and actually was profitable. Let me be clear I was not questioning the trading methods but rather Jims claims of being...
Hi Winston

Lets get to the facts on whether price action rules work or not.

The answer is very easy because I also design, write and build Algorithms so I can build price action models that follow any price action strategy I like. I also work with a team of other Aussie EA builders and work on a few projects together on Discord and Skype Groups so I have a good grasp of what strategy's work.
I have witnessed probably a few hundred models in my time within my group as well (tip- most EA's will never match a great manual trader)'
May I also say there are two price action strategy's that actually do work, the rest however seem to be bullshit.

Looking at support, resistance, supply and demand, these rules are easily applied to a Algorithm either in direct code or we have the option of coding indicators that perform the same task.

Big Fail here, I have never managed to get a model profitable ever.

Now you may be very experience and be able to cherry pick the best setups through your EXPERIENCE - but new traders buying Sam's learning guides don't have this experience. They are just buying a strategy that DOES NOT WORK.
So you are actually trading a bad strategy but somehow come out on top, for that I take off my hat and say well done.

Now I did mention there are two price action strategy's that do seem to work.
1.. Pinbar Models with a few rules on mid time frames. Still only offers moderate profits at best.
2... Inside Bar Breakout - We have a clear price action winner here and its a good strategy if you apply a few rules.
3.. Also Indicators do work in Algorithms, Bollinger Bands being the most popular.

There may be some price action strategy's that work that I am not aware off so I am open to suggestions from other traders here.

Lastly I do not claim to be the most talented coder in FF, or even in my household.

Cheers Rick
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #176
  • Apr 11, 2020 3:07am Apr 11, 2020 3:07am
Like I mentioned earlier on this thread, the issue was not about S/R or D/S system or strategy. It was the scamming of uninformed and unsuspecting customers. Posters here lambasting a system or the customers are missing the point. There's no failure-proof system or strategy. And if anybody here hasn't felt like buying into a new or popular system or strategy, let him or her keep casting the stones on the OTA's scammed customers.

KP
Do your homework, follow the footprints of smart money
  • #177
  • Edited 3:55am Apr 11, 2020 3:33am | Edited 3:55am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi Winston Lets get to the facts on whether price action rules work or not. The answer is very easy because I also design, write and build Algorithms so I can build price action models that follow any price action strategy I like. I also work with a team of other Aussie EA builders and work on a few projects together on Discord and Skype Groups so I have a good grasp of what strategy's work. I have witnessed probably a few hundred models in my time within my group as well (tip- most EA's will never match a great manual trader)' May I also...
Add on...

If a trader wants more in-depth quantifiable objective knowledge he has to learn to code, that's the minimum requirement. More important start by learning the math behind common indicators and stochastic calculus what they mean.

The more the traders knowledge about time series math the better chance he has given himself to find real alpha over Forex market. Very few retail traders commit themselves to acquire this level of knowledge that can take many years of practice to be proficient. In short be a big data scientist or quant. The possibilities blow your mind. Traders who have this knowledge possess an unfair advantage over the market.
Know what you trade
  • #178
  • Apr 11, 2020 4:49am Apr 11, 2020 4:49am
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Add on... If a trader wants more in-depth quantifiable objective knowledge he has to learn to code, that's the minimum requirement. More important start by learning the math behind common indicators and stochastic calculus what they mean. The more the traders knowledge about time series math the better chance he has given himself to find real alpha over Forex market. Very few retail traders commit themselves to acquire this level of knowledge that can take many years of practice to be proficient. In short be a big data scientist or quant....
True that. I am currently learning that aspect of financial engineering as well as coding to put the odds in my favour. Even then, one could still fail miserably without money management and discipline. By implication, many who have zero knowledge of financial maths have boundless opportunities to make a good living from forex and stocks with proper discipline and MM.
Fred
  • #179
  • Apr 11, 2020 4:53am Apr 11, 2020 4:53am
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Add on... If a trader wants more in-depth quantifiable objective knowledge he has to learn to code, that's the minimum requirement. More important start by learning the math behind common indicators and stochastic calculus what they mean. The more the traders knowledge about time series math the better chance he has given himself to find real alpha over Forex market. Very few retail traders commit themselves to acquire this level of knowledge that can take many years of practice to be proficient. In short be a big data scientist or quant....
I want to learn how to code, with this lockdown I have some free time, please can you or anyone else point me in the right direction where I can learn this online?
Read in between the price!!!
  • #180
  • Apr 11, 2020 5:31am Apr 11, 2020 5:31am
Quoting calebfx
{quote} I want to learn how to code, with this lockdown I have some free time, please can you or anyone else point me in the right direction where I can learn this online?
Hi calebfx, long time.

Jimdandy is a good youtube channel. Start here.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6N...2p8tJdpLJ2M7iA

Inserted Video


Remember mt4 coding is a skill that enables us to do the things we want like creating tools. That's about it.
Like learning Japanese language so we may communicate in japanese.

The most important part is to read up about time series math. Back to school on this one.
It's in the math, that's where the deep chart knowledge lies which can only be explored by acquiring this basic coding skill.
Know what you trade
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