Dukascopy 12 December 19 - GBP Election Night- Scandal?

Anyone else experience 'technical difficulties' beginning 10pm on said night?

They claimed it ended at midnight, but I was still trying to no avail. No-one could see their accounts via any platform during the extremely volatile period.

I have been with Dukascopy for many years and without major problems - this is the first.

Will update with more info as I see fit, but at the moment I am being forced to file a claim with their regulator. Very strange considering how reputable they are.

Any advice would certainly be appreciated.

I stay well away from big news events like election results so have no advice for you sorry.

I'm sure someone else will be able to help though...

Yes, thank you, if you scalp or your risk is high then stay well away. Position trades held for months are a different story.

The specific position was in EURUSD, and since September the target has been 1.1200. If you cross-ref that with the chart, you will see that any broker with a reputation would take accountability for technical difficulties at such a critical time for the price in question.

Please understand that regardless of personal risk or PnL, this has become a question of procedure and trust. Many times over identical scenarios happen with brokers, and they accept liability. I have experienced tech issues first-hand with much smaller brokers. It is now a duty for us, as retail traders, to investigate and/or hold such institutions as responsible.

I have some screenshots and more data that I will post in due time

The red box was the time period where users could not even see account balance, let alone their positions. Further to that reps on Friday assured it would be solved come Monday latest, but waited until the market fell even more on Wednesday before issuing a 'no blame' e-mail. I still have more to say about that but the chat screenshots on the night itself will be presented for now:

As of Friday 20th December, I am waiting for a call from my account manager who claimed he was not yet up to date with my specific issue. He did know enough, however, to remind me that in the contract I signed, I should allow for 'technical difficultuies' on occasion. I highlighted a very blurry line between liability/intention and genuine fault to which he then seemed to understand.

It did remind me that this could get gritty with contract law being brought up, something I really did not want to get in to, but they may force my hand.

He told me he will consult with his seniors and get back to me. As this is the second time I am being told this, I remain skeptical, but will wait nonetheless and let everything play out, and commentate in open forum.

Redacted correspondence below. They also concluded with the statement "We have no intention to censor or amend the content of posts you publish online and hence do not desire a preview. We reserves the right to freely comment on any public disclosure and to protect our interest if deemed necessary."

Dukascopy to me, December 23:

Our systems became not available at 2019-12-12 22:03 to 2019-12-13 00:04, during this time we also have not registered any phone trade or email request from you.

EUR/USD reached a high of 1.11995 BID for just two ticks during the time of the technical incident. It remained above 1.1197, more than 40pips distance from your TP orders for less than one minute.

When systems resumed, it was possible to execute SELL orders @MKT at 1.1170 or better and clients were able to login and execute trades electronically again from that time. No trade attempt from you has been received that time, no order change has been done. You also did not make any attempt on your first login on 2019-12-13.

From the above we regret, but see no wrongdoing by Dukascopy and hence grounds for compensation.

Me to Dukascopy, December 23:

Thanks Marc, your perspective will be forwarded along to the regulator and social media along with mine, concerning items in your correspondence include, but not limited to:

1. We can see the TP orders that are still present in the platform and have remained unchanged since 2019-11-01

And look how close they were to 1.1200 for >1 month

 

1. 2019-12-12 22:03 to 2019-12-13 00:04, during this time we also have not registered any phone trade or email request from you.

Please go back and check where my account balance was not even available to me. That is the first port of call for a trader to consider editing his trades

 

1. We can see that you login daily, several times during the day, but you have not made any order change since that date in November.

This only backs up my intention of closing >1.12

 

1. Our systems became not available at 2019-12-12 22:03 to 2019-12-13 00:04,

Incorrect, as I have evidence from your own Support Team proving 00.29 was the time

 

1. It remained above 1.1197, more than 40pips distance from your TP orders for less than one minute.

Less than one minute is more than enough for a decision to close the trade to me made. This was not offered by yourselves meaning you have breached contract.

 

1. When systems resumed, it was possible to execute SELL orders @MKT at 1.1170

What absurdity is this, that you would consider it fair for me to sell lower, immediately as soon as your platform resumes, when the liability is completely yours?
Do you understand the ramifications for this? This is a bucket-shop technique that SHOULD NOT be employed. It is nearly 2020, and you have a reputation
and a responsibility to uphold, and fail to so so. Failing to 'see' any wrongdoing is merely another bucket-shop attempt at a cover-up.

If I knew you treated client money like this, I would never have joined.

Dukascopy to me, December 23
Dear xxx,
Thank you for your quick reply and we regret your reaction.

Unfortunately, no systems are protected from failure.
If one happens in ours, we invite our clients to follow the procedure of Dispute Resolution which is described in para 21 of the Terms and Conditions.

That is why my suggestion to close the position at the first possible instance.
Our experience shows that in many cases the clients will try to take an advantage from technical failures and claim for potential profits but at the same time they will keep silence if the technical issue turned in a profit for them. Therefore, in order to protect ourselves from the clients’ dishonest behavior we will always refuse compensations for potential profits and will only satisfy those claims where it’s possible to see a proof of the client’s intention to make the trade in question.

We do believe that our approach is fair as it both protects the client and the broker in case of technical issue. In the particular case we found that no terms have been breached on our end. Despite, we still look forward to resolve the case amicably. At the same time, we have no ground to satisfy your claim.
That is why we would like to offer the following options:

1) Should you disagree that our general approach for resolution of disputes is not fair or/and does not meet your needs,
we are ready to satisfy your claim for GBP xxxx GBP (EUR/USD xxxxxx position size, price difference 1.1197 - 1.1080)
and close your account. For this please close your positions immediately close your positions - but no later than 12:00 GMT on Tuesday 24. December.
Please note that this option will incur inability to open an account again with either entity of the Dukascopy Group.

2) You may confirm that the matter shall not be pursued and can be closed without refund. for this purpose, you may use the Report Cabinet -> Trading Settings -> Reconciliation

Failure to react in one of the two ways will force us to close the positions on your behalf on 24.12 at 12:00 GMT and the placing of new orders would be disabled.

Me to Dukascopy, December 23

This is the first sign of actual support I have seen from your entity. I'm sad you regret my reaction, but it seems necessary now as it sparked resolution. As I am now grateful you are finally taking steps, please know I will put my public complaints on hold until we finally resolve this, and further explain the situation as I had hoped to on initial contact.

However, understand:

 

1. to close the position at the first possible instance.

This, for me in UK time would have been 8am or later, as I stayed awake till 12+ trying to log in, disrupting my sleep. I was trying since 10pm so 2 hours, as evident from my proof with your support.

I can go into my personal story of how committed I was to manually closing at 1.12, with my partner as a witness, but I should not need to. I have never seen the phone app not work, when JForex is down. This was a first, and extremely confusing.

This leads me on to my first discussion with Arpad, who instructed me to wait till Friday/Monday. I heard nothing until Wednesday late.

My intention when speaking to Arpad was a) to see acc. balance if the market nears 1.12 and b) acknowledge any unecessary overnight swap loss and flatten all positions. This was not unreasonable then as market was not far off.

If Arpad was simply clued up on, and I quote:

"we will always refuse compensations for potential profits and will only satisfy those claims where it’s possible to see a proof of the client’s intention to make the trade in question."

Then he could have simply relayed that, OR discussed with me your requirements of intention vs. mine. Instead, it objectively seems like the reverse happened. I.e.

"the clients will try to take an advantage from technical failures and claim for potential profits but at the same time they will keep silence if the technical issue turned in a profit for them"

turns to

"the broker will take advantage ... claim for potential profits ... silence if technical issue turned into a profit for them".

A 72 hour turnaround is unacceptable, for at least the client, when it is your technical issue (therefore liability). This we should be able to agree on. What, if anything, does the contract say about timeframe?


However, I understand:

 

1. You may believe I had unethical intentions, and would have capitalised somehow.

This may be true, but not unethical. I have admitted I wanted an exit between 1.1200-1.1240. Yes, I was may have thought 1.1220 would have been ideal in the weeks leading up, but I did not get a chance to view let alone maximise gain on that night. My primal urge after seeing the faults with the system was to get out at 1.1200.

Now please ask yourself, how could I unethically gamed this to my favour? If it skyrocketed again, yes I may have got out higher, but this would not have been my fault that I did not close on said night?
If it came down, I would call ASAP and ask for resolution? I did
Are there any other possibilities you can tell me where I could have taken advantage?

1. Your offer is generous and fair, and at the same time denounces liability therefore making me liable via incompetence/fraudulent intention.

Accepting would undermine my argument, seeing as the clause 'inability to open an account again with either entity of the Dukascopy Group' reflects the desire for me to not cause you any future hardship.

As much as I respect you have considered complete fairness here specifically in my situation, I should state I feel that option would reflect badly on your organisation with future clients. There is limited scope for the retail trader, many of whom hold Dukascopy as the gold standard for reliability. As you know you are one of the biggest, and dominate the 'Swiss Retail Bank-Broker' market space. My fear is that 12 December could be a sign of things to come, thus being a neutral commentator is far more important than ... .

I have spoke to Arpad, Mo, and now yourself, telling you my complaint is about procedure. I care not for compensation but rather understanding, ultimately leading to ehanced process. With this I will kindly decline your offer and see to the positions myself. It is ironic because I may well let them surpass 1.12 ... this is the nature of trading. I am not a fraud and you have made thousands in commissions from me in 5/6 years+. Hence please consider the above and please explain anything wrong you feel I have said, and I would appreciate a less victimising response.

I await your reply

And from there, December 26 I was wished happy holidays and we spoke in general about some things.

Take from this what you will if you ever need insight into my experience with Dukascopy.

Dukascopy completely screws up their JForex platform effectiveness during the high volatility. It's ridiculous

I couldn't believe it while it was happening. Can you think of any other broker who tries to advertise "true ECN" as much as them??