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Forex: A Zero Sum Game? 18 replies

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Forex - A negative sum game for losers

I came across this guy, apparently he has +80,000 hours of screen time. The host describes it as ''work ethic'', but everybody with some experience in this industry knows that this is nothing but stupidity. You dont need that much hours, all price does is going up and down. Looking at a bunch of candles isnt going to make you more experienced.

Now here comes the funny part. You would probably think that this guy is killing it. Guess what? He is selling mentorship and 1 on 1 coaching! Now I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, but this just shows how unsustainable trading can be..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mJeZSC3bvc
Quoting Batuvisser
I came across this guy, apparently he has +80,000 hours of screen time. The host describes it as ''work ethic'', but everybody with some experience in this industry knows that this is nothing but stupidity. You dont need that much hours, all price does is going up and down. Looking at a bunch of candles isnt going to make you more experienced. Now here comes the funny part. You would probably think that this guy is killing it. Guess what? He is selling mentorship and 1 on 1 coaching!
Soo.. 80.000 hours its about 3333 days, wich means aroun 9 years.. 9 CONTINOUS YEARS WATCHING CHARTS... ok.. he REALLY needs to learn how to sell himself lol


Quoting Batuvisser
Now I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, but this just shows how unsustainable trading can be..
When you dont know what to look for in a chart then YES, trading its not a sustainable activity; if you know what you are doing then it trading becomes a boring and consistent way to make money, the worst thing its the waiting part, but there are workarounds for that (tools/scripts, alerts, push email, etc)
Retail forex is a negative sum game for losers.

This is a proven fact beyond all doubts. If you try to come to that conclusion on your own you will lose a lot of time an money on the way.
After 5 years, there is a 99% chance that you have lost significant money.

Sorry to spoil your dreams and the epic lie of the retail forex industry.
  • Post #424
  • Quote
  • Edited Nov 24, 2019 5:01am Nov 23, 2019 10:59pm | Edited Nov 24, 2019 5:01am
I'm new here ...

Daytrading is definitely a dead end, extracting profit from price movement over longer periods(not necessarily forex) is not - you can buy books that literally give you investing strategies you can backtest on stocks over many years.

Alarm bells around forex for me include -

1) The bottomless pit of strategies and indicators and forums with no clear answer to becoming profitable - there is always an optimal way to do something, except forex where you'll never find any good answers just more questions. Seems like an attempt to confuse and obfuscate the reality of a dead end.

2) The number of higher profile forex traders who sell courses or mentorship to supplement their income. If success at forex trading scales then all these people have to do to make huge amounts of money is scale their trading - but they don't.

3)If retail forex trading was typically profitable in any worthwhile sense - everyone would be doing it for a living(the word would get about), but they're not because it typically isn't.
Quoting Batuvisser
I came across this guy, apparently he has +80,000 hours of screen time. The host describes it as ''work ethic'', but everybody with some experience in this industry knows that this is nothing but stupidity. You dont need that much hours, all price does is going up and down. Looking at a bunch of candles isnt going to make you more experienced. Now here comes the funny part. You would probably think that this guy is killing it. Guess what? He is selling mentorship and 1 on 1 coaching! Now I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, but this just shows...
Seriously? If he spends 10 hours every day of the year (including weekends, Christmas and every other major holiday, weddings, births, funerals, etc.) looking at charts, that means he did that for just under 22 years. Now, since the first group of retail forex platforms came on line about 1996, that means they've only been around about 23 years.

Again, this guy says he has looked at currency charts pretty much since they have existed for an average of 10 HOURS EVERY DAY FOR THE LAST TWENTY TWO YEARS!!

Not sure if I would classify exaggeration as "work ethic"......
Quoting HudithePfupf
Somebody wanted to pay off his mortgage with Chronos..... did he make it? {quote} 7 years wasted chasing the epic lie of profitable retail forex trading. Understand why you havn't make it yet and then take the decision to stop and dedicate your time to better things than non productive speculation. You are feeding your enemies while they are cheering you losing your hard earned money.
Hi ;-)

No I didn't make it, but still don't think it's impossible - it's impossible for me, bot some people may do it. Thing is greed loses most of traders. You can win in FX if you show no emotions and know how to trade. Choros as system is good when mastered. It's people that fail. ;-)
On my way to financial independence - if others can do it - I can do it
It seems to me that any association of Forex with the game is not originally correct. That's because it's a real business with its own laws and rules, but on the other hand, they can be learned and understood by anyone who is interested in this activity. Of course, there are moments here that are aimed at people to some extent limited in their actions and have a great chance to lose their investment, but if you control your own actions and do not allow you to get excited, you can avoid these tricks and become a professional who can handle any situation, even if it is not foreseen in advance. You can handle anything if you really need it.
Quoting Eur Usd
{quote} Hi ;-) No I didn't make it, but still don't think it's impossible - it's impossible for me, bot some people may do it. Thing is greed loses most of traders. You can win in FX if you show no emotions and know how to trade. Choros as system is good when mastered. It's people that fail. ;-)

What a load a rubbish

Kronas was proven to be a lair and works in a job all these years

He does not trade for a living

He has a sick ego

You can create a new person online and get people to believe you like he did
today , 9Mar 2020 .
Big masscare to many live acc .

Many FF live acc got burn.
I believe persistence pays off, even the professionals still have days of learning and have bad days. Don’t let a few bad trades out you off, find a system that works and only test with a demo account! Best advice I was given!
Most likely during the last few weeks a lot of retail traders, especially the mean reversion traders, probably have lost their shirts once again. This time CFD traders on oil, gas, heating oil and stock indices learned it the hard way that leverage is a very stupid idea.

Rinse and repeat. A new generation off suckers is born and can be lured it by snake oilers, as soon as this bottoms out someday in the future.

Retail forex trading is a negative sum game for losers.

I bet this statement will have a 98.1 % chance of being true if applied over a periode > 5 years in the next 1000 years. Because it's a mathematical fact and built into the system itself. If you could ever take a bet with such incredible good winning odds you would certainly take it. But most of you stay in complete denial despite all the evidence piling up mountain high.....and keep losing your hard earned money.
i have been in involved in the financial industry for quite some time. the only thing that i know for sure is that in forex people tend to lose money for 3 reasons.
1) Luck of experience & knowledge
2) Luck of understanding of how the companies make money ( stp or marketmakers )\
3) Luck of understanding of the regulations.

Personally I prefer FCA regulated brokers with portfolio management that they only get paid percentage of the profits.
  • Post #433
  • Quote
  • Edited Mar 27, 2020 9:49am Mar 26, 2020 12:28pm | Edited Mar 27, 2020 9:49am
Quoting lemondrop
1) Luck of experience & knowledge 2)
Acoording to your profile you are from UK but you don't get the differencs between luck and lack?

I fear you will lack good luck.

No snake oil promo (aka portfolio management) here.... you are just wasting space on my thread.
Damm that's crazy shit. The sun happens to be our biggest and closest star responsible for virtually all life on earth. Changes in its output are key in human activity. The Mayans knew it too.
You can't argue with the fact that the statistics of forex users are not too nice. Indeed, many people are quickly disappointed and stop working in the market because they consider it unprofitable, risky, energy consuming. Everybody wants to see fast and serious profits, but not everybody wants to deeply understand the mechanisms of the market to cope with the large flow of information and learn to choose to work exactly what has the greatest potential and allows you to find the most profitable entry points, which will bring the desired income. Of course, most people stop working on themselves and just accept the fact that trading is a game or something that cannot bring stability and high income to their lives. That's all. The main thing is that there are those who do not give up and continue working on themselves.
And isn't the same thing happening in any other business sphere, I constantly communicate with people who launch different business projects in different directions. And you can't even imagine how many times these projects turned out to be unprofitable. And that doesn't prevent them from continuing to develop and invent something new, because if you have a specific goal and you really want to do something that will work in the long term, then you just need to try.
Yeah, you're gonna be wrong and there's a good chance that you're gonna have to start all over again. But how do you know what you're capable of if you don't do anything?
And notice that everybody wants to make money and everybody thinks they're worth it...
It surprises me personally. And what about you?
Quoting Redworker
And isn't the same thing happening in any other business sphere,....
No, it is absolutly not the same. Retail forex trading has absolutly no productive element in it. It is just a speculative bet on a currency in a zero sum game. By doing it, you provide zero value to the world... any other service or business startup will provide value, but maybe not enough to make a living out of it. It this isn't true, the business model would lack the core element of what a business model is.... not so in retail forex.

In any other real productive or service business model working harder increases the chances of success, because you become more compeditive. In forex trading all studies so far proof that there is no significant learning effect or improvement over time..... what is shown is that if a retail trader becomes addicted, he continues to lose over a very long period of time. A lot of retail traders face significant loses and a very negative impact on their lives in various dimensions. The fallout for society is epic.....but kept under the rug because a wiped out retail trader is a weak enemy against the hundreds of millions a year snake oiler mafia that sells the big lie on all channel 24/7.

If you fail in retail forex there is absolutly knothing left of value that you can take with you, other then not doing the same mistake again. This is certainly not the case with a business or service startup.... you learned a lot and already improved along the way.

Would you give 100000 USD to a startup with a sound business model or to a retail trader to risk that capital in retail forex?

Easy decision, isn't it.... so why the f... are still so many people fall for their lies?

Because propaganda works..... you can sell almost every lie if you have enough money to do so.
  • Post #438
  • Quote
  • Edited at 2:06pm May 16, 2020 1:32pm | Edited at 2:06pm
Quoting HudithePfupf
{quote} No, it is absolutly not the same. Retail forex trading has absolutly no productive element in it. It is just a speculative bet on a currency in a zero sum game. By doing it, you provide zero value to the world... any other service or business startup will provide value, but maybe not enough to make a living out of it. It this isn't true, the business model would lack the core element of what a business model is.... not so in retail forex. In any other real productive or service business model working harder increases the chances of success,...
Would, you just give $10000 to a startup cos he has a sound business model? I bet you won't. Why? Cos he only has a business model with nothing to show for it. Many investors won't invest in a business of less than three years in existence, and you know why? Cos a business that can survive three years is assumed to have known all the nitty-gritty of survival and has high survival potentials. Now compare these criteria with the statistics of retail traders. Most definitely, you won't give $10000 to a retail trader with three years of experience. But a retail trader with three years of experience also has the potential for surviving in the FX market.

Some business startups fail to do well even after some years cos they have flaws in management, which includes; time, resources, manpower, cash. I have watched a business pitch of a little business that had survived three years. A question was thrown to the Pitcher about his business plan. The pitcher with all the good pitch and global projection of his business had no business plan. Is same thing not obtainable in FX? It is! And why is it so? Cos many came into FX for the wrong reasons and with little knowledge of the model of FX.

I am not trying to convince anyone about what to believe. The thing is this, most people will believe what they believe anyway. So we can argue forever, but definitely there are retail traders whose only job is trading. And just as it is with conventional businesses, some will make it bigger, while some will make it big. Others will make it small whereas, more will make it smaller. Some won't have the chance of survival. And you still wonder why 95% of retail traders fail? I think the more pains about Fx is the get-rich-quick thing being sold out there, that people buy cheaply into. And at the end of the day, how many remember Fx is a business?
yes, everything you need to succeed is available on the internet, you just have to be smart enough to pick the trash out of the valuable.
Quoting tiborf71
yes, everything you need to succeed is available on the internet, you just have to be smart enough to pick the trash out of the valuable.
And only get advice from profitable traders, and not just "a profit" but tens of thousands of dollars per year. It makes no sense to listen to someone that is still struggling to be make good money.....and even less sense to listen to someone that is bitter because they can't figure trading out.

Everyone won't make good money trading, just like everyone that plays college sports won't make good money after 4 years. Just because you do something for a long time doesn't make you good at it, you can see that from some of the drivers on the highway!

Don't make trading more difficult than it needs to be, don't jump around from system to system, and accept that trading just may not be your thing. But don't give up because someone tells you it can't be done.....
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